Brozz 250 - 4 Degree Timing Key Install

[tknj99]

Well it looks like my dreams of the 4 degree timing key have been dashed.. im so pissed at myself and truly live up to the fail..
I went to remove the flywheel today and inserted a screw i thought would work and cranked down as far as i could and nothing! I backed out and oh f! the screw head lodged inside and i couldnt get it out..so mad that i neglected to cut the head off of the screw.. anyway, a moment of sh@@tin bricks and i grabbed my drill and started drilling the screw out.. luckily and with much prayer, i eventually got the screw out..
But now i found that the 1" puller stripped the inside threads and also some of the puller threads.. no matter what i do now, even after using the proper interior piece, a cut to length allen key, the puller goes in and then eventually starts turning a thread and going crooked!
I havent buttoned it all back up yet, and luckily the flywheel bolt goes in with no issues, was also worried about that..
Do i have any other options here or should i abandon the timing key and call it a fail?
I have a crow bar nail puller but i am fearful it will just break something.. i tried inserting the puller a bit and banging with a rubber mallet but no beans..
thanks guys, live and learn, or fail and fail again in my case :(

[tknj99]

I tried rigging up a ratchet strap around the flywheel connected to a tree lol and it didnt work. So i buttoned everything back together and am fully abandoning the timing key, with much sadness. I'll have to see if Joe will take it back or else ill sell to someone on the forum

[XLsior]

Hey tknj99,
Sorry to hear about the struggle. It's a damn shame when the effort doesn't payoff.

I would be tempted to give the 4* key a shot myself...but I live in Australia. If you're inclined to post it to down under I would be highly thankful as such an item probably is unobtainium here without making one from scratch. I will cover the costs of the key and postage...should slip in a standard envelope no troubles.

Bit of gamble on my part as I don;t even know if my cg250 project runs yet. But I'll take a punt.

only other issue is the provision of personal contact details and payment.

So yeah if you're ok with the offer shoot me a PM to arrange something...

Cheers.

[tknj99]

I appreciate that, will pm you

[Deckard_Cain]

Well that's a bummer.

[tknj99]

Yes, was a sad day yesterday, although it turned out happy in the end as i think i came really close to having a figurative bike sitting on cinderblocks situation. Its funny as when i used the 1/4" allen key cut to size and later removed it, it had a slight bend to it, so that flywheel must be gorilla glued on or something lol, it does not want to budge.. short of going to town with a crowbar and hammer or cutting the damn thing off and replacing, i dont think its ever coming off.
Whatever you guys do, just don't remind me of how awesome that upgrade would have been, my ego is bruised enough lol
My next and probably final performance upgrade will be changing from the stock carb and air box to a PE30 carb with foam filter; from what Megadan said, its a huge gain ("holy s@#$" as quoted from his YT video) when paired with the ported head.

[TxTaoRider]

I'll let you know how it goes for me in the next couple weeks after the parts arrive.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by tknj99

My next and probably final performance upgrade will be changing from the stock carb and air box to a PE30 carb with foam filter; from what Megadan said, its a huge gain ("holy s@#$" as quoted from his YT video) when paired with the ported head.

It was quite noticeable for sure. Just don't quite go off my original jetting figures either. I was still rather lean on the main jet at that point in the video. 38 to 40 pilot jet, and the main will greatly depend on the intake you use.

As far as the key situation. I guess I am just not understanding what happened. You were trying to use a jaw style puller? Why? The m16 sized flywheel removal tool works without fail, every time because it is how they were designed to be removed. Jaw Pullers can work, but they aren't ideal for the job.

[tknj99]

@Megadan: no i was using the M28x1 RH Tusk puller in this link:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The first time i used it with the outer socket and the 1" screwed through as intended but the 1" seated inside the crankshaft and would not turn anymore so i researched and found the video in this thread where the guy used a screw with head removed and inserts into the shaft and then screws down the 1" puller.. it worked for him but i made the mistake of putting in a screw with the head on not realizing that it would be pushed to a point where the head lodged against the threads that the flywheel bolts utilize. It was at this point that i drilled the screw out luckily got it all out and then cut an allen key to size but by then the 1" threads on both the puller and the flywheel were no longer cooperating.. not sure if the Brozz has a weaker threaded flywheel or it just cant take too many attempts or the flywheel is just too damn tight or what.. i hope someone else with a Brozz has better luck than me when they go to do this, but ive resigned at this point and have sold the key to another forum member who will hopefully make good use of it.
On the subject of the carb and filter, i intend to purchase the following carb, manifold and filter as i want to run it behind the frame and into the airbox (with a hole cut for it) as you did.. can you verify i saved the correct parts please:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...72KG178U&psc=1
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079L6RW...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
https://www.amazon.com/WPHMOTO-Black...0563447&sr=8-9

Im at 600 foot elevation and my current PZ30 has the stock 34 pilot and im running 120 on the main, do you think a 35 pilot and 120 main would be a good starting point for me? my mods are listed in my sig.. thanks

[grumpyunk]

A new flywheel is not very expensive o n the peace site. Apparently the only way you'll get it off now that the threads are gnarled is using a two or three-jaw puller.
Did you cut an allen wrench to length to have something for the Tusk puller to push against? I haven't used one of those, and the one I bought was no where near the correct size. I think it was listed for the Honda 125cc version, but am not sure.
Given I had to split the case, the flywheel had to come off, period. So I went with the three jaw and it worked. Not the best choice, but was the only alternative available.
tom

[tknj99]

Yes, both the screw i used later with head cut off and the allen key were approx 1/4" and were cut to length to allow 50-60% thread utilization by the puller and in both cases the puller started stripping threads and cocking to one side. Both the screw and allen key came out with a slight bend, so its on crazy tight that's for sure.
Its funny because after i buttoned everythig back up it was getting dark and i started her up to make sure she ran and started fine. I then turned her off and realized i forgot the plywheel bolt and got that back on thru the center access portal while jamming the gear behind the 3 bolt cover. But it would have probably worked fine with no flywheel bolt for the foreseeable future lol.
At this point ive already sold the timing key and resigned to this effort. but its good to know that it can possibly be done again with a 3 legged puller if i ever work up the courage to do it again.. for now im going to chase some more power via a new carb and foam filter as my next order of business.

[tknj99]

If you could post up a link to the correct 3-legged puller to use, id greatly appreciate it..
and, am i correct in assuming that the 3-legged puller screws in to the crankshaft, same as the flywheel bolt.. any chance it could strip the crankshaft? if so, that would royally suck even more.

[grumpyunk]

The puller I used is similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/ABN-8in-3-Jaw.../dp/B077KCPN4S

It was an imported tool, likely from HF or a similar store that was nearby. I did not pay that much for it, but it was a while ago. As you can see, the 'hooks' can be pointed either way, and can be connected in one of two positions to match what you are trying to remove.
When I set it up, the legs bolts were moved to make the legs as long as they could be. The hook fit behind the edge of the flywheel, and I tightened the screw, pushing against the head of the bolt. Repeating for the umptieth time, I used a large ball peen hammer, likely a pound(16oz), maybe more, and gave it a whack after tensioning the puller bolt. Did not budge. Maybe one-two more, and I said to myself I really have to HIT this thing. Lined up, pulled back and gave it a good swing. pop about
that loud, barely hear, but it was loose, and the puller sagged a bit as there was no tension any more.

others:
https://www.harborfreight.com/three-...-pc-63953.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-t...ler-69224.html

tom

[tknj99]

Thanks Tom..

Just to confirm.. that first puller you linked, when you removed the flywheel bolt and inserted the pulled screw in the hold, does it insert and press up against where the flywheel bolt head presses against normally?

It seems that would be a good option for me and will be my go to method and should work based on your experience as it being super tight as well.. I'll probably plan to do this around my next oil change at 1k (200 miles from now)

Glad I still have a viable option
By the way, I bought some high torque grey rtv for the next time as well since I noticed a tiny accumulation of oil around the bottom of the cover

[grumpyunk]

The retainer bolt that is screwed into the end of the crankshaft and holds the flywheel in place was loosened a turn or two. Then the puller arms/legs hooked to the back edge of the flywheel. The puller screw tightened against the head of the flywheel bolt, still in the crankshaft. Torque is a bit(it may come off...) and then if it is as tight as you feel it should be without causing damage to anything by going further, give it a whack with a good sized hammer. The mass of the hammer can put force on the bolt then the crankshaft, while the flywheel will want to stay where it is. Newtons law of 'things at rest want to stay, things moving want to keep moving' paraphrased. Given there's a tiny gap between the head of the bolt and the end of the flywheel where it normally rests, the flywheel has that bit of space to move into when it wants to stay still, and the crankshaft etc can move away freely. Limited, of course. Hopefully, the flywheel pops loose of the taper. This is the same procedure used to pull flywheels off lawn equipment, tension the flywheel with a pry bar, and whack the bolt, with room for the crankshaft to move. If you can let the crankshaft move freely, but hold the flywheel still, essentially, you will have the best shot.
tom