GY200 won't shift up - only first and neutral work

[franque]

If you can answer the questions I posted above. I might be able to help you. I'm actually a motorcycle mechanic, and I'm familiar with these motors. If you could even link is to more appropriately sized pictures, I'd be happy to help. Everything I can make out from the enormous pictures looks fine to me.

[Quinn]

Here's a screenshot I took off of YouTube. Another 200cc Lifan. As you can see the roller arm tensioner is bolted in below the shift drum rather than across from it like mine is. Today I will test, if it still isn't working I'm going to change positions. Thoughts?

[grumpyunk]

The 'roller arm tensioner' would function to keep the shift drum in position. As the shift is moved up/down, it starts to rotate, grabs the part held on by the spring & circlip, and then pulls. When it pulls, it is hopefully pulling on one of the tips of the fingers on the end of the shift drum.
When you have shifted, springs should direct things to 'fall back in place' so you can pull on the next tip. If you decide to shift in the opposite direction, the whole assembly will sort of rotate 10-15 degrees so the removable arm is not positioned to pull on the other side of the 'star'. Doing so, pulling, will move the shift drum so it will do the opposite shift from what it last did.
Try moving the shift lever from the external linkage. You should see it position so it can pull on the upper or lower side of the shift drum 'end'. When moved just a bit further, it will do the moving, and a shift occurs.
I know when I took mine apart, I did not pay a lot of attention to the mechanism and how it came apart... That's because it fell out when I tipped the case. oops. It didn't matter as it would only go in one way.(I think, and so far we're good). The shaft can come out completely(clutch removed) and then fall (more or less) back into place. The picture with the last part so: attachmentid=23617&stc=1&d=1607540522
shows marks on the roller arm tensioner show contact with the inner part lower 'fork'. The tensioner is scratched. I would check that the arm is not bent inward so that it contacts. I do not KNOW, but think the arm is supposed to be able to do a partial rotation, bringing the puller thing along with it, as you vary between up shifting and down shifting. IOW, that arm limits the shift puller position, and if it is jamming into the spring loaded detent mechanism, it may not go to its proper position, and allow the puller arm to pull on a drum tip. That arm should rotate a partial turn freely, I think, only held into one position or the other by spring tension, NOT running into other parts. I would check that it is not bent. Saying in different words(getting lost in my own post) it should move freely in a short arc. The arc should position the removed arm to pull on an upper or lower shift drum rib, effecting a shift. If it does not move freely, the outer arm will try to pull on nothing... no rib tip there to grab onto, and a shift won't occur.
Understandable? or not...
tom


Added: the only way I could look at the images was to open the post in multiple tabs, the right-clock on the image and select 'view image'. viola. usable pictures. finally.
tom

[Quinn]

Omg. Now neutral is all the way up above 5th. At least without the bike running, neutral is at the top while shifting up. Havnt started it yet. Shit. Help.

[Quinn]

Grumpy, I have all the gears back!!! But neutral is all the way up where 5th would be and I have to downshift to go through the gears. What the heck! How the heck did that happen? And so sorry about the pics. I'll try to find a better way. But the reverse gearing?

[Quinn]

Well... I learned a lot. This bike is Neutral at the top and 5 down. Weird. I've been climbing ditches and throwing dirt... Neighbors prob bitching but this was a fun process. Thanks so much for all your input. I like these China bikes ! I have 5 motorcycle. I build 80s into cafes N scramblers. I'll post pics later on my profile

[franque]

I have one like that, shift pattern is reversed, and neutral is below (I guess technically above, but below in the sense that it's in the opposite direction of 2nd) 1st, but some of them had a 'rotary' shift from, that would allow you to shift from 5th back down to 1st/neutral. Without seeing the shift star in its entirety, it's hard to say which one you have.

Additionally, my initial guess was clutch adjustment wasn't correct, but also, with the way that motorcycle transmissions work, unless the engine is running or you're moving the bike, they will almost never shift besides neutral and first, that's normal.

If it's truly in 5th (like trying to take off in gear, and it immediately dies because there's not enough torque or clutch to slip to get moving), then there are other possible diagnoses, but with occam's razor and all, my guess was a combination of operator error and something not being adjusted, combined with a reversed shift drum.

See if you can ride it and report back, if it rides, whatever was wrong was fixed, you just have a reversed shift drum.

[Quinn]

Oh I could ride it, i rode it all over the place in my neighborhood, did the dishes, tearing up dirt and having such a great time. I was impressed w the torque in first and second gear... third fourth and fifth were pretty weak. Its shifting great up and down or perhaps I should say down and up. Kinda cool to have such an oddity. Not too many 5 downers around town. Ha ha.

[grumpyunk]

FWIW, the images being so large allows a lot of detail, but is obnoxious when trying to view in a browser.
You may want to consider using 'paint' on each image and then use the 'resize' option.
You can reduce by a percent or by pixels, I think. If you keep the perspective the same, you can just plop in a percent, say 50(depending, of course) and go to town.
Do a 'save as' and call it a different name, such as 'Original50', adding the 50 to show it has been reduced.
Then open that image in your browser and see how it displays. Maybe.
tom

Added: I do not know of a way for a shift tube to invent 'N' at the end of the line, rather than between 1 & 2. The tube moves the forks, likely 2 at a time, when in the upper gears, unlocking 5 while locking 4, as an example downshifting, reverse on an upshift. Don't see how 1 could take the place of N, but I could be wrong.
If someone was 'moving things around' inside, without a lot of thought, I just don't know if it could be done with an original tube. Enjoy. You may have an embossed logo on the side of the case indicating the shift order, up top, perhaps.
What make/model is this?
tom

[franque]

I'm not sure what you're speaking of when you say shift tube, but it's all in the design of the shift drum (and a little bit with the shift star). Neutral between 1 and 2 is mechanically arbitrary, if logical to us. Even the orders of the gears are mechanically arbitrary, even if quite logical to us. If you did some math and had a CNC machine, you could easily put a neutral between every single gear (though due to poor manufacturing, with some brands, you get lots of false neutrals, basically spaces between where gears engage where nothing engages), or make it shift 1-4-3-5-2 if you wanted to.

There's no good reason to do this, but if you bought a different shift drum, shift star, and potentially shift forks, you could change it back to conventional shift, you'd just have to split the case.

Nothing was loose or broken, my guess is he was trying to shift like he would expect a "normal" bike to shift, so it didn't work.

My theory for the existence of these motors is that some Chinese manufacturer has some extra ATV motors laying around (where neutral is always at the bottom), and either the motor was designed to shift using a linkage, or with the shifter facing backwards, and voil

[grumpyunk]

Yeah, I meant 'drum' when I typed 'tube'. I have too many years on the clock, and words don't pop up as fast as I can type, so I substitute.
The drum figures it all out, as you say. Each 'chunk' of rotation, as limited by the detent arm, follower and spring in the above pictures, will move forks back and forth.
Which one moves where is the question. Most times, a shift(chunk of rotation) will move two, disengage one gear while engaging another. The gears are meshed all the time, so the teeth will not clash, but the 'dogs' that are moved by the shift forks are not synchronized, and will clunk a bit. The dogs have a couple 'teeth' that are square chunks of metal, and are attached so they can slide on the shaft, but not so they can rotate freely from the shaft. Sooo when the teeth of a dog clutch engage the gear, they make the gear send power through the teeth, the dog, and through the shaft. They more or less lock the gear to the shaft, and unlock when moved out of position. blah blah blah....
If you are creative, you may be able to get the shift drum to engage two pairs at the same time. Not by design, as that locks up the transmission, but by whatever method it is that sailors use to find the ONE way to mess things up. You must be creative.
tom

[Quinn]

Hi guys, thank you for the comments. This is a gy 200. My son and I have been riding it daily in the backyard. It is a neutral at the top, five down bike. It will never be street legal because there is no title. So we are using it as an off-road machine. We are having a ton of fun on it. I also acquired a hawk 250 that will not shift. It's gone through three owners that cannot fix it. I will be posting soon. This won't shift into any gear and it's only in neutral. It came with a brand new clutch that I am about to put on. I already have the case open. Tomorrow I will probably dive into it. I love Enduro bikes, why would you want anything else!

[franque]

You could probably get a title as long as it isn't stolen through registering it in Vermont. If you Google "Vermont register motorcycle" you should be able to find all the info you need.

[Robertlamont80]

I was able to save the pictures and then open in Microsoft viewer and get a normal looking good picture if anyone wants to peek at the pics.