old rider new tricks tt250 mods

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

All versions of the ZS177MM (NC250) engine used in the Zongshen RX3 are water cooled engines. The NC250 engine would definitely not bolt directly into the TT250 frame.

er, the poster was referring to an air cooled version? is there such a beast?

[kohburn]

well the ATK or AKT, its basically an rx3 right?

oh I know what I got confused the AKT was carbed but still water cooled..

what is this one from?

its an OHC air cooled engine with kick starter... "Suitability: Direct replacement for Orion Apollo"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250cc-Zongsh...mjB672T9ilKEMg

[culcune]

Originally Posted by kohburn

well the ATK or AKT, its basically an rx3 right?

oh I know what I got confused the AKT was carbed but still water cooled..

what is this one from?

its an OHC air cooled engine with kick starter... "Suitability: Direct replacement for Orion Apollo"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250cc-Zongsh...mjB672T9ilKEMg

This one is in Australia making shipping a major deal breaker. Besides EPA certification. If it is for the Orion Apollo, those are Zongshen, at least for the US. What I understand with Orion/Apollo as a guy from Nepal was interested in creating an OEM brand a few years back on mychinamoto, is that they build the bikes, and you, as the distributor/importer choose which engine you desire. I am fairly certain the US importer specs ours with Zongshen which I assume the Australian importer does, too, according to the ebay listing. Pretty much the same engine as what the TT250 will come with. A catch-22, or catch-229 ...

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

er, the poster was referring to an air cooled version? is there such a beast?

No, all versions of the ZS177MM (NC250) engine used in the Zongshen RX3 are water cooled engines.

[moparrob]

So back to the earlier question: Are there any other Japanese air-cooled engines out there that fit or could be shoe-horned into the chassis with minor modifications? Something like a 250, 350 or 400 single from an older bike that could be refreshed and built for performance?

The price of a new Chinese engine seems pretty high compared with something out of a used bike that could be rebuilt.

Is there a reason that using a larger Japanese engine has not been attempted or successfully completed in the past?

Hmmm, I know of a spare 1992 CR500 (two-stroke) engine lying around that could be dangerous...

[SpudRider]

If you want a bike with a larger, Japanese engine, why not buy a Japanese motorcycle?

[moparrob]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

If you want a bike with a larger, Japanese engine, why not buy a Japanese motorcycle?

Mainly because my TT 250 will cost me $2400.00 out the door while a similarly sized Japanese motorcycle would cost 3 times the amount.

Additionally, I really enjoy performance modifications but I don't think the stock pushrod engine is really up to the task of any significant increases (from what I've read so far).

Equally as important, I really enjoy tinkering and modifying vehicles.

[SpudRider]

I think it's great you like modifying vehicles. However, there is an excellent supply of slightly used, Japanese motorcycles for sale in the United States. I bought my 2005 Honda XR650L for $2,000; it only had 7,900 miles on the odometer. I also bought my 2004 Honda CRF250X for $2,100. You can probably buy a complete, used Japanese motorcycle for not much more than the price of a used Japanese engine, and you won't need to mess with the complications of trying to fit that engine into a frame which was not designed for it.

[kohburn]

Originally Posted by culcune

This one is in Australia making shipping a major deal breaker. Besides EPA certification. If it is for the Orion Apollo, those are Zongshen, at least for the US. What I understand with Orion/Apollo as a guy from Nepal was interested in creating an OEM brand a few years back on mychinamoto, is that they build the bikes, and you, as the distributor/importer choose which engine you desire. I am fairly certain the US importer specs ours with Zongshen which I assume the Australian importer does, too, according to the ebay listing. Pretty much the same engine as what the TT250 will come with. A catch-22, or catch-229 ...

except this one is a overhead cam not a pushrod engine. its rated at 18hp at 8500rpm instead of 16hp at 7000 rpm. and is at least listed as a 250cc.

if its not the same engine then it may be more open to being bored out.

shipping at ~200$ to the US

all in all it may not be worth the money and effort unless its just for fun, at which point a turbo may make more sense.

[moparrob]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I think it's great you like modifying vehicles. However, there is an excellent supply of slightly used, Japanese motorcycles for sale in the United States. I bought my 2005 Honda XR650L for $2,000; it only had 7,900 miles on the odometer. I also bought my 2004 Honda CRF250X for $2,100. You can probably buy a complete, used Japanese motorcycle for not much more than the price of a used Japanese engine, and you won't need to mess with the complications of trying to fit that engine into a frame which was not designed for it.

I agree, but my concern was trying to find a used bike that I had some idea as to how it was broken in and maintained. I know a lot of used dual sport bikes are ridden pretty hard.

[2LZ]

There's an OHC version of the 200CC Hondoid motor out there. It's probably cammed better than the pushrod motor so it may be a better alternative for a performance build. FastDoc put one in a XR200 Honda and it fit like a glove and gave great performance.
I've always enjoyed building motors back in my younger days but it just got too damn expensive! I've been wanting to tear down a CG pushrod motor and send the cam off to a grinder and do some porting work to see what these can achieve. They're made for torque and durability so they may be a good candidate. The pushrods are incredibly short which is good, but I'm not sure of the pushrod/rocker angle and how much you lose there. I thought of tearing into my X-Moto as a beta unit but it runs so dang good right now! I bet with some cam work, porting and the right aspiration setup, these could be capable of 25+ HP....but it would be mostly top end. Maybe scab in a blower on a stock motor?
BTW, nice to have another Mopar guy hanging around...........

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by moparrob

Mainly because my TT 250 will cost me $2400.00 out the door while a similarly sized Japanese motorcycle would cost 3 times the amount.

Additionally, I really enjoy performance modifications but I don't think the stock pushrod engine is really up to the task of any significant increases (from what I've read so far).

Equally as important, I really enjoy tinkering and modifying vehicles.

point made!

[moparrob]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

point made!

I love your signature, with the laws. What are the missing two laws?

[SeerAtlas]

moparrob, I appreciate that you found some value in this old man's ramblings. There are actually quite a few more of Seer"s Laws. some a bit too rough for general exposure but still relevant. Let me give you two more important ones which i have followed throughout my life and which have helped get me this far in a shall we say not entirely uneventful life, while retaining some element of sanity:

15. When trying to resolve one of life's many complex dilemmas regarding any question or issue of prospective personal conduct, First, close your eyes. Now imagine yourself at the end of your life, preparing to die. While looking back over the course of your life, ask yourself- at the end, are you going to be glad you did that thing, or wish you had not.

17. Denying yourself something you desire as a matter of self discipline, can develop character. HOWEVER, realize that there will come a time when you conclude that you have enough god-damned character...

[Jayman77]

I was just looking for the best carb and slap on muffler but if you guys think I can fit a 350 big block in there then why not