2018 Hawk vs. 2018 Brozz

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by culcune

The $2k price is a little steep, but that is what kept the 2014 models in their warehouse long after Kandi USA became their distributor for the later Brozz model years. I guess if they keep that price, that is a very distinct difference when comparing the Hawk to the Brozz. I do think the Brozz is worth that price, meaning the Hawk would be a good alternative if several hundred dollars means something to you, which for most of us it would. For a better comparison, the Bashan 41B (Enforcer) is much more close in price to the Hawk.

2 grand makes a huge difference. You can fully mod a Hawk and have money left over with 600 bucks. For 2k, I would look at a TT250 and have the dealer support of CSC,, or go with an SSR or Pitster like you mentioned. That bump in price puts it in a much stronger playing field.

[2LZ]

I'm a big fan of the USD forks and the counterbalance motor. The USD's are much stiffer and more modern.
I haven't been here on the site as often lately but I can only recall one oil pump chain wearing out on a Lifan at an extremely high mileage and it didn't break, just wore out and got noisy. If there were more, I'm unaware.
I've had a number of non-balanced and then the balanced motor in the TT250. Definite difference. Both my Rhino and X-Moto GY were like riding blenders compared to the TT250. The little non-balanced 150's we had were surprisingly smoother than the larger 200/229 non-balanced motors.
Really like the Brozz and Storm, especially that cool orange.
How anything is coming with a rear drum brake these days is beyond me, especially some of the far more expensive Japanese models.

[Meloman]

2LZ and Megadan, you both seem to think that $1999 for a Brozz “puts me into a much stronger playing field” and you both pointed me towards the TT250. That bike is a Hawk with USD forks and $2350 delivered. So what’s the logic there ? OK, you mention dealer support but really how critical is that. Is it worth an additional $350 over the Brozz or about $650 or more over a Hawk ? Repeatedly I have read posts of bad dealer support and the feedback is always just fix it yourself, parts are cheap and easily accessible.
As I entered this Chinese bike world all I knew about was the Hawk and that got me excited. But as I mentioned previously, it is still questionable whether it can be registered in Oregon. The Hawk here is $1699 OTD but I’ve seen them for even less on line.
So I expanded my search parameters and came across the Brozz. Given that all my previous enduro bikes had 19” x 17” wheels (Triumph 900 Scrambler, Triumph Tiger 800, BMW R1200GS) giving up the 21” / 18” wasn’t an issue. The C/B motor was a draw as was the electronic dash, popular gearing, nicer swingarm with better chain adjusters, remote starter and EPA/DOT approval.
Now, with more research I find a list of 250 enduros, each adding or deleting certain features. It seems that some are stated to have better build quality than others but it’s hard to tell without a side by side comparison.
So at this time I’m in limbo and continue to welcome all input and opinions to help with my final decision.

[china007]

I think the Storm or the Enforcer would be a great fit also. The Storm I really enjoy and the Enforcer is great also. I bought both and ended up keeping the Storm. If you want smoother riding then go with the Storm. But when you get up there to TT250 price you can pretty much get anything or just do like I did and buy 2 for a bit more. I really enjoy taking the Enforcer around the field ripping it. The KX450 is intense but the 250 makes it fun without the white knuckle riding. I'm going to upgrade the exhaust here soon. I just bought the SAMDO speedo for the Storm. I like tinkering makes me appreciate the bikes more and is still way cheaper then any other big names. So far I've ridden my pretty good and makes me smile each time.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Meloman

2LZ and Megadan, you both seem to think that $1999 for a Brozz “puts me into a much stronger playing field” and you both pointed me towards the TT250. That bike is a Hawk with USD forks and $2350 delivered. So what’s the logic there ? OK, you mention dealer support but really how critical is that. Is it worth an additional $350 over the Brozz or about $650 or more over a Hawk ? Repeatedly I have read posts of bad dealer support and the feedback is always just fix it yourself, parts are cheap and easily accessible.
As I entered this Chinese bike world all I knew about was the Hawk and that got me excited. But as I mentioned previously, it is still questionable whether it can be registered in Oregon. The Hawk here is $1699 OTD but I’ve seen them for even less on line.
So I expanded my search parameters and came across the Brozz. Given that all my previous enduro bikes had 19” x 17” wheels (Triumph 900 Scrambler, Triumph Tiger 800, BMW R1200GS) giving up the 21” / 18” wasn’t an issue. The C/B motor was a draw as was the electronic dash, popular gearing, nicer swingarm with better chain adjusters, remote starter and EPA/DOT approval.
Now, with more research I find a list of 250 enduros, each adding or deleting certain features. It seems that some are stated to have better build quality than others but it’s hard to tell without a side by side comparison.
So at this time I’m in limbo and continue to welcome all input and opinions to help with my final decision.

The TT250 has adjustable preload and rebound dampening on it's suspension - front and rear, something none of the other bikes offer. The parts are of a slightly better quality overall, and they have the counterbalanced CG250 engine like your beloved Brozz. They also have some design changes to help with reliability - such as the rear wheel hub utilizing a bolt-through sprocket. Let's not forget the 300W charging system either. CSC is also the only company that sells bikes with their own name on it that actually has a reputation for helping its customers. The "fix it yourself" aspect is always true, but when you are under warranty - they actually help you. That is something many other sellers don't do.

My Hawk was $1300 delivered to my door last year. They are a little more expensive now, but I can still get one for a hair over $1400 to my door. Obviously shipping prices can change a bit depending on where you live, the seller, and the shipper. Then Enforcer, Storm, and Shark, are all close to that same price range, give or take a bit.

$2000 is a big jump for, as far as I can tell, the same bike they couldn't sell fast enough a few years ago and stopped bringing them in. Trust me, we aren't the only ones that think that price is a bit steep. Now, if it starts offering upgraded features and better quality parts, then the price is justified. There isn't enough info to know for sure, so as it stands right now, yes that price is on the high side.

[Meloman]

Just got off the phone with Texas Powersport. They are selling 2017 Hawks now but will get 2018’s in a few months. When I asked about any changes in the new model they said it will have EFI and a digital dash but will be priced higher.
So just as I’m trying to get a handle on all this they throw a wrench in the works by enticing me with fuel injection.
If that’s true, it will really impact the Hawk world and I wonder how many people would consider this an improvement or a step backwards in tinkerabilty. Are any other 250’s out there fuel injected ?

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Meloman

Are any other 250’s out there fuel injected ?

The RX3 is injected. It has its good and bad points. Personally, I don't think that a 250 warrants EFI unless its a serious race bike and can be completely tuned. As far as a 1400 Hawk being injected, I'll believe it when I see it.

I know this doesn't matter to most, but the TT250 in the dual sport/enduro class is the only choice for us CA folks.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Meloman

Just got off the phone with Texas Powersport.

I wouldn't believe a thing a Manny-related company would tell me. Ask Azhule.

[letsride]

I paid 1,500 bucks for that Brozz you saw in the video. I went and picked it up in the crate from my dealer. There are still things on the Brozz that will need to be upgraded right away. The chain is JUNK, it stretches like a rubber band. The inner tubes are VERY thin, the rub strips are crap, Fork oil is crap, engine oil, etc. And I don't expect the new Brozz's to be any different. At 2 thousand bucks I better be getting a decent chain, and some good tubes at least. I think Peace Sports is having illusions of Grandeur. They saw the older Brozz get bought up and now they think there is a demand. Which like Culcune said that is why I bought a Brand new 2014 Bike in 2017. They had them priced too high all along. We shall see what happens when they get here. I just don't think they will sell at that price point, there are other BETTER bikes for around that price.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Meloman

Just got off the phone with Texas Powersport. They are selling 2017 Hawks now but will get 2018’s in a few months. When I asked about any changes in the new model they said it will have EFI and a digital dash but will be priced higher.
So just as I’m trying to get a handle on all this they throw a wrench in the works by enticing me with fuel injection.
If that’s true, it will really impact the Hawk world and I wonder how many people would consider this an improvement or a step backwards in tinkerabilty. Are any other 250’s out there fuel injected ?

Texas Powersports will blow smoke up your rear and shake your hand when you are looking to buy something. Have a problem or a parts order inquiry and they treat you like garbage. Personal experience with their "customer service" has taught me to avoid them.

As far asthe Hawk getting EFI... It would be a neat feature, but having experienced the quality of the connectors and wiring on my own Hawk, which is getting a full weatherpack treatment), I would rather stick to a good ol carb. At least until issues are known and sorted.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by Meloman

Just got off the phone with Texas Powersport. They are selling 2017 Hawks now but will get 2018’s in a few months. When I asked about any changes in the new model they said it will have EFI and a digital dash but will be priced higher.
So just as I’m trying to get a handle on all this they throw a wrench in the works by enticing me with fuel injection.
If that’s true, it will really impact the Hawk world and I wonder how many people would consider this an improvement or a step backwards in tinkerabilty. Are any other 250’s out there fuel injected ?

I mentioned this on your other post; I called RPS and they confirmed they will be putting FI on the Hawk, but it is up in the air when exactly it seems. The guy on the phone only said they won't know anything until August or September--I didn't push him to clarify, but it could mean the bikes will come in around that time, or they will know something, anything around that time for a few months down the road (2019?).

[Megadan]

Imho, the carbs used on these bikes are super simple, and once dialed in will work reliably for a long time. I get 65 to 70mpg on my Hawk with its current gearing hauling my huge butt around when doing street duty.

[Meloman]

You’re right, the carb is part of the overall simplicity that is the benefit of these bikes.

[2LZ]

I fear the day of the pre-$1500.00 250 China dual sport may be coming to a close.

Not just the cost of EFI and other EPA mandates driving the cost up but Suzuki can't keep DR200's on the floor at $5000.00 after "destination charge" and they still have a drum rear brake and regular forks!

Makes a $2500.00 China dual sport (with rear disk, balance shaft and USD forks) look like a bargain, especially if you buy one with true dealer support, parts and service.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Makes a $2500.00 China dual sport (with rear disk, balance shaft and USD forks) look like a bargain, especially if you buy one with true dealer support, parts and service.

It's a shame that Bashan cannot create a dealer network, or have a system like CSC for their bikes. They have 4, maybe now 3, good enduros: Storm, Brozz, and 41H aka Enforcer. The Shark seemed to be their redundant bike, although when people showed theirs off here, I thought they had a niche afterall. The Bashans, if supported, would bring competition to the China-bike class of bikes, probably lowering the prices, kind of like how the prices are competitive when they all come in a box.