CSC SG400's Are Finally In

[XLsior]

That SG400 fuel range/MPG is nothing to sneeze at.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by XLsior

That SG400 fuel range/MPG is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah, that is one thing that impressed me for sure. It's actually better than my Hawk lol. One of my biggest complaints of most modern bikes is their relatively small tank capacity. Not really an issue if you ride around in town, but living where I do where towns and fuel stations can quickly become far apart in short order, it would be nice to know I have that kind of range available to me.

I also like that the SG400 uses tubless spoke rims and standard sport bike tire sizes with a 120/70-17 front and 150/70-17 rear. That opens up a huge world of options.

[XLsior]

The cost of tank upgrade even if there is such an option would cost $200 minimum at best. Otherwise you're strapping cans for remote range.

In Australia going somewhere could take a couple of hours...having the fuel to get back out again is the important factor, This isn't offroad either...big place, big distances between stations.

Being the tinkerer you are Megadan any warranty on the RE would likely be void.

If the prices were identical yeah I'd probably go the RE mostly for the resale value after 3 years.

Tubless rims and tire options are always appreciated.No need to carry spoons, tubes and patch kits...just a plug kit.

Can of orange paint and a weekend should sort out any color desires.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by XLsior

Being the tinkerer you are Megadan any warranty on the RE would likely be void.

Shhhh. Nobody has to know...

[XLsior]

Sg400 @7:10

[wheelbender6]

Originally Posted by Working_ZS

Just got my invoice via email, the OTD total, which does not include my state sales tax, is $5445.00 US, which breaks down as follows:

Still a grand or so below the OTD price of Kawasaki Z400 and I am not a fan of the appearance of the naked z400.
I saw a press release that Kawasaki will offer a retro version of the Z600 soon, with a round headlight. Welcome to the party, Kawasaki.

[franque]

Dan, I'm sure you know, but S&S is making parts for the 650, so the HP advantage can be easily increased. For my money, I'd go with the 650, even with the increased cost, because unless the SG400 is a bit hit, since the motor isn't otherwise being imported (to the best of my knowledge), I could easily see it becoming an orphaned model in not too many years, because as you stated earlier, it is comfortably in the same price range as many Japanese models.

The market is especially weird now, but I highly doubt the SG400 will be a rousing success; they're no longer competing with used bikes, price wise, and they're in a very competitive market where most people aren't looking at a potential DIY project.

I could be wrong, but I think the 650 will be around much longer.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by franque

Dan, I'm sure you know, but S&S is making parts for the 650, so the HP advantage can be easily increased. For my money, I'd go with the 650, even with the increased cost, because unless the SG400 is a bit hit, since the motor isn't otherwise being imported (to the best of my knowledge), I could easily see it becoming an orphaned model in not too many years, because as you stated earlier, it is comfortably in the same price range as many Japanese models.

The market is especially weird now, but I highly doubt the SG400 will be a rousing success; they're no longer competing with used bikes, price wise, and they're in a very competitive market where most people aren't looking at a potential DIY project.

I could be wrong, but I think the 650 will be around much longer.

I think that you're underestimating demand for the SG400 a bit. The primary reason that it's being brought in is to satisfy the unmet demand from potential SG250 purchasers who are looking for that style of bike, but want something with more power and bigger ergonomics - which the SG400 does in spades, while keeping the weight down. The tubeless spoke wheels and the fact that the TC380 is liquid cooled, versus air/oil cooled are icing on the cake. The light weight, with good power thing is really important in a lot of peoples books, mine included. Like the RX3 before it, Zongshen has stepped into a segment that is currently not being served by the mainstream manufacturers - >250cc, sub 650cc cafe retro styled parallel twin bikes.

As far as support goes, CSC has demonstrated repeatedly their ability to support their bikes, which is the primary reason that I continue to buy motorcycles from them. That, and the fact that they ship the thing right to my doorstep; I never have to leave my house except to ride the bike, lol. After six plus years of CSC selling Chinese bikes, I don't see any danger of the bike being orphaned, and if that did come to pass, AliExpress and TaoBao are more than able to fill in the gap. You can damn near build an RX3/RX4 from all the spare parts that they have available on those sites. As far as repairs go, so far I've purchased three Zhongshen motorcycles - this will be the fourth, and the only issues I have had are crap wet cell batteries and a bad oil seal on my RX4's shift shaft. That's it. For reference, the wet cell batteries in my 2015 Versys and 1990 Gold Wing also went to crap, so I can't lay all the blame on poorly made Chinese batteries. This is the reason that I am now a Shorai Lithium Iron house, exclusively; I use them in all of my bikes now. I can let them sit forever, and when I do want to ride a bike, they are ready to go.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the RE 650's, as well as the Himalayan, but for the type of riding that I do (almost all street), I don't really need a low RPM tractor, and I'm very interested in seeing what Zongshen hath wrought in their new small parallel twin engine. Probably more so than I am in the SG400 itself. It's the main reason that I was disappointed when CSC opted not to bring in the RX3S. It will be even more interesting to see what the RX6 brings to the table, should CSC decide to give it a go - a Norton based parallel twin engine design, coupled with name brand components instead of the usual Chinese in house stuff that they usually put on their bikes.

When it comes to resale, I don't buy a bike for resale value - what's the purpose there? I want to ride the damn thing, not sell it. I'm not aware of anybody who makes money selling a motorcycle, apart from dealers. Having said that, I'm seeing folks selling plenty of RX3's, RX4's, and other CSC bikes that are are not having problems moving the bikes. And they are not losing their shirts either, unless they really need to sell(I'm thinking ChopperCharles' $1200, 600 mile RX3 here). There are still a lot of people out there who are curious about Chinese motorcycles and CSC, who may not be willing to pay MSRP, but will happily fork out twenty to forty percent less on a used one. Here again, my Japanese bikes offer a similar tale - in 2018 I picked up my Versys, with 4000 miles and about $1000 of GIVI addons, for $6100. Basically a forty percent hit to the previous owner's investment. How is that any different to someone selling a $4000 RX3 for $2500?

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. If you are afraid to buy a Chinese bike in 2021, especially one from CSC, you shouldn't be. Unless you are the type who absolutely, positively, must have a dealer to take it to, then yep, you should look elsewhere. Just be prepared to pay more for the privilege.

[wheelbender6]

I think the choice between the SG400 and RE650 is just personal preference. Both good bikes and a good value.

[XLsior]

Many consumers who are not mechanically motivated or from their point of view personally invest themselves into a transport appliance, will sell and buy new after the factory support/warranty period expires...This makes resale value important for some.

At least you have the options....In Australia these Chinese road use bikes are basically non existent.

There are China bike distributors. SWM, Braaap and CF Moto etc...but nothing like the RE650 I've found

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by wheelbender6

I think the choice between the SG400 and RE650 is just personal preference. Both good bikes and a good value.

I agree, and believe me when I say that I am grateful that we have reached the point where we have the choice. Back in 2015, it was basically a Ninja 250, a Rebel 250, or a TU250 for small, low cost street bikes, and a Yamaha TW200 for off road. The RX3 really blew things open, proving to other manufacturers that there was a market for feature packed small ADV, street, and dual sport motorcycles; bikes that aren't bare bones beginner models, but full featured motorcycles in their own right. The fact that there are differing sales and support models that are flourishing is an added bonus, allowing everyone to get the bike that they want with the type of service and support that they are comfortable with.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by XLsior

Many consumers who are not mechanically motivated or from their point of view personally invest themselves into a transport appliance, will sell and buy new after the factory support/warranty period expires...This makes resale value important for some.

At least you have the options....In Australia these Chinese road use bikes are basically non existent.

There are China bike distributors. SWM, Braaap and CF Moto etc...but nothing like the RE650 I've found

Yep, and options are always good to have. We've got CFMoto here in the US, with dealers even, but for some strange reason they only bring in their side by sides and UTV's, no motorcycles, which sucks IMO. And yes, I understand about the folks who flip their bikes before the warranty expires, but that's on them. "You pays your money, you takes your chances", as they say. I want to ride mine into the ground, my Chinese bikes in particular, since I'm curious as to their long term durability, which I'm pleased to report is pretty damn good so far.

[Falkon45]

Their motorcycles used to come here. They didn't sell well. And we're usually priced close to their competition, but we're underwhelming compared to them. CF Moto stopped selling them

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Falkon45

Their motorcycles used to come here. They didn't sell well. And we're usually priced close to their competition, but we're underwhelming compared to them. CF Moto stopped selling them

Yep, that is the exact reason they didn't sell well. The CF Moto 650TK and NK were sold here from around 2010-2014. Not really bad bikes either from all accounts, but because they were priced right in line with all of the big name brand 650's - which is a TOUGH segment to get into - and they didn't really offer anything unique AND their performance was mediocre at best, but priced pretty much the same as said big brands... They didn't sell. Heck, you can STILL buy a brand new 2013-14's from certain dealers.

That being said, I do think CSC has a few big legs up over the CF Moto bikes. For one, CF Moto was sold like most Chinese bikes, through other third party dealers. That meant warranty issues were difficult to claim, parts were hard to get, etc. CSC is an actual dedicated brand/dealer for these bikes. This means they stock the parts and honor the warranties, and they do a dang good job of it. Working_ZS said everything perfectly above with his response, and is exactly how I view it. I think the SG400 definitely fills a market gap, even if it is a niche' market. Nothing else like it really exists in the segment, so even if the pricing is on par with other similar displacement bikes, it offers things the others don't, and features the others don't.

[Chris_Top_Her]

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3