04-10-2022, 12:26 PM
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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Quote:
Have you tested it to the Skidding point ? you may well be surprised at the outcome ! it doesn't stop like you think it should at all ! .... Bob.....
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04-11-2022, 02:58 AM
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#17 |
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Indiana
Posts: 13
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I have a 2020 RX4 with 15,500 miles on it. I can confirm the brakes works as they should. Almost blew through a stop sign on a back road today and it stopped exceptionally well. Also, if you don't like your ABS wire in the disconnect switch.
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2020 Fleet: CSC RX4, Hawk 250 DLX, Moto Guzzi V85tt “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” -Harlan Ellison- “The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.” ― Ronald Reagan- |
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04-11-2022, 09:52 AM
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#18 |
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Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 472
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Just my opinion, but I would never buy a bike with abs because I know how my mind works in an emergency. Couple weeks ago, I had to apply the brakes on my Bashan in an emergency stop in traffic. I hit the rear brake immediately and the front brake right after and stopped in plenty of time, a lag of maybe 1/4 second. I've used that exact procedure since the 60's, and there's no way I can adjust to apply both at the same time.
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2018 Bashan Storm(sold) 2016 Magician 250 |
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04-13-2022, 12:54 AM
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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I hear ya on old habits die hard !!!!! but there is not supposed to be a need to hit both brakes at once their independent of each other so you can delay and then hit it if you so desire....the way I understand it ALL bikes with ABS have independent brake systems
so you can mash both brakes or just one and it still works.... the question nagging at me is will it stop as fast as I can stop a bike with normal brakes ...and I seriously doubt that.... but I am not as good at it as I was 20 years ago. so it might very well stop faster HAHAHAHHA ..... it's been snowing off and on for the last 3 days.... not good weather for riding yet alone testing brakes ! HA! .... Bob.......
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04-13-2022, 10:25 AM
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#20 |
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
Posts: 632
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The RX4 has Bosch ABS. Looking at the Bosch literature available here:https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions...ing-system-2w/ it appears that the system is dual channel. They talk about 'enhanced ABS' for two wheel vehicles and the electronic Combined Brake System. The ABS Control Unit Assembly listed by CSC appears to be identical to the enhanced ABS unit shown on the Bosch site. If that's the case, it does not matter which brake you apply...they are linked. Stomp on the rear brake, the ABS will keep it from locking up while it also applies pressure to the front brakes. I'd still clamp down on the front brake in order to make sure there is enough stopping power in an emergency (on a surface that has grip). ABS can usually stop the machine better than the normal human although some racers can actually beat the ABS results. Me, I'll stick with the ABS and call it a day. You do you and we'll all be happy.
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04-13-2022, 12:17 PM
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#21 | |
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Northeast
Posts: 934
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Quote:
Whoa!!! That’s a terrible bit of technology. So if I am going down a steep, sandy hill or one with a lot of pebbles on it and gravel or maybe snow or something... The system will apply the front brake when I apply the rear to slow things down a bit??? That’s a guaranteed crash. The front wheel will definitely wash out in a situation like that. The way to handle that type of terrain would be to not touch the front brake, kind of let the speed build on the way down the hill because you don’t have full ability to brake, use the back brake a bit, maybe locking it up and slipping it over the rocks/sand, maybe having ABS work on the rear also if you’re inclined. But for the ABS to start applying any braking pressure to the front wheel in that situation while you are trying to steer down a slippery surface with rocks sticking out everywhere would be a guaranteed crash. I am so glad I don’t have any of the stuff on my bike.
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04-13-2022, 07:14 PM
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#22 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
Posts: 632
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04-13-2022, 08:51 PM
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#23 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Northeast
Posts: 934
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Quote:
Very important feature I’d say.
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2020 Lifan x-pect |
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04-14-2022, 12:19 AM
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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thanks pyoungbl !
that is a useful bit of info there ..... so when I press on the rear brake hard enough to brake traction it will kick in the ABS and that will transfer some of the braking force to the front wheel as well .... which means that pressure on the rear foot peddle just got lighter so I have to press harder on the rear to get the same force I had..... that is probably why it felt like it just let go completely.... i wasn't using the front brake at all and it took alot of that pressure to activate the front brake..... NOW THAT Makes Sense ! that explains it ! THANK YOU ! enhanced braking indeed ! LOL so if your using only the rear brake and not the front you may experience exactly what I did I let up a little off the rear soon as it skidded I am sure as it's built into me ...2nd nature and because all of a sudden the braking force went to BOTH wheels and I let up slightly it was like free wheeling .... makes perfect sense to me now... next time I will push down on the rear brake till it skids and push even harder and see what it does I bet it stops real fast !...without skidding any more ! LOL really helps to understand the beast you are dealing with that is for sure ! THANK YOU ! Bob...... .....
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04-14-2022, 12:41 AM
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#25 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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Quote:
so your not going to get a washout that way.... no brakes at all maybe depending on if any traction is available or not i guess ! LOL .... but yah I've had my bike in places where there was hardly any traction at all with positive brakes and sliding both down hill .... but I was Hill climbing at the time and I don't think the RX4 would be very good at that in stock form ,remove 200lbs of weight Yah it would be great, there is plenty of power for that then ! the RX4's INTENDED use is obviously a street bike with a few dirt roads thrown in to boot..... it's not a enduro or desert racer...the saddle bags on it should kind'a tell you that from the start.... so if your going to put the RX4 through stuff like that you gott'a expect some problems ! I have no complaints about My RX4 except it's super hard ride which I am fixing... it was too tall for me so I lowered it 2" now I can touch both feet flat footed on the bike.... but it is heavy much heavier than I like but for the street that isn't bad...I do not like being blown off the road by an 18 wheeler and I have been before ! a little weight curbs alot of that problem ! it's a great bike for it's intended use if you take it out and do desert racing with it your going to be really disappointed even single track trails is asking alot from the RX4 but it can probably take you anywhere your stupid enough to take it .... and I have been known to do some crazy things on a bike....but not on this bike.... I treat it like a street bike and I've had no problems but I have taken street bikes up Logging roads for many miles to the point the road disappears..... places where most would only go on dirt bikes but I do that with street bikes.... but that is all I want and this bike fills the bill .... Bob......
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04-14-2022, 07:03 AM
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#26 |
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Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Northeast
Posts: 934
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Well, that’s true. It’s not for that kind of off road use. You’re right. As often is the case on forums in general, we all tend to think of our own bikes when responding. I suppose the abs system, as described, is fine for what it’s intended for.
But I still think you’d wash out in my scenario if the abs, as described, was active. My situation puts you on the border of a washout to begin with. You might just wash out on a non-abs bike without touching the front brake at all. The front tire is riding over marbles on the steep downhill basically. That tiny little touch of the front brake by the computer would be plenty to start the full wash out. But I guess it’s a pointless thought because you’re not taking this bike into this situation I dreamed up anyway.
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04-15-2022, 02:29 AM
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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Well, Yes and no... you have a system designed to stop the wheels from braking loose and washing out even with sand or pebbles that is what it does best it keeps traction to the wheels....I don't think you;ed get a wash out but an increasing need for more and more brake pressure.... up to the point they both finally lock up.... I think !
.... I have been posting that they are both independent and that appears to not be the case as they are both linked ...that certainly changes things ! it may well be that the other day when I did test the ABS on my bike it did exactly what it was supposed to and I would have stopped in the same distance because I wasn't using the front brake at all.... it did for me... I guess and if that be the case I know I'ed have stopped fairly fast but the strange reaction I got from the bike made me want to let up and hit the brake again... which it immediately re set and i had rear brake again by then I was almost to a crawl anyway so I just continued on... it will take some guts to do but I want to try stabbing the front brake and get it to brake loose and see what it does.... i'll do that on a dirt road as the pavement is fairly hard on things should they go wrong ! although the dirt roads around here are packed so hard they just as well be painted black and you'd never know the difference ! LOL the pee gravel is the only give away and the dust you kick up.... if you've ever gone down on a hard packed dirt road you'll know that is not where you want to be falling down ! the rocks sticking up will rip you to pieces ! ...i'd rather go down on the pavement than on that stuff ! so I'll have to find an old logging road somewhere .... I know just the place if the winter rains have settled the dust enough... the road is a fire brake but last year they had a forest fire out there and the trucks tore the heck out of the road... I couldn't even go up it with the TT250 it was so loose and messed up..... this volcanic soil turns to powder fairly easily once you brake it open I went up that same road with a Yamaha 650 street bike the year before it was a hard ride but I did make it to the cinder pit.... that might be just the road to test these brakes on ! ...one part of it is really steep with big rocks that only jeeps go up i made it on the 650 twin so I am sure this RX4 can do it ! they both weigh about the same LOL...but the Yamaha was a bit lower ! a lower bike is SO MUCH easier to ride in the rough ! ... later ! Bob......
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It's too late when you've gone too far ! |
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04-27-2022, 08:55 AM
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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well, after the spring boon doogle I put my RX4 back together and left the saddle bags and top box off
because I want to ride it a few times like that...just for kicks ! I let some of the pressure out of the rear shock while I had it out and now When I bounce on the seat it deflects a tiny bit.... the triumph goes down about 3 " the 250R Ninja goes down about the same but the RX4 only goes down about 1"~2" max ...so it's still very hard but better than it was ! .... it does feel a little lighter i have to admit !without the saddle bags and rear crash bars... LOL .... Bob...
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It's too late when you've gone too far ! Last edited by Bob Kelly; 04-28-2022 at 07:06 AM. |
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04-29-2022, 11:33 PM
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#29 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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OK I took the RX4 out today and found a short patch of gravel so I tested the ABS again
this time the results were completely different than last time... I hit the rear brake only and noted my stopping speed at the time... hard enough to lock up the rear but of course it only stopped sliding for a split second and it did continue to slow down at the same rate !!!!! a few more tests like that confirmed the same results it does not let up so much that it freewheels...that was ME letting up I'm almost positive ! ..... the other thing I tested today was the ride without the saddle bags and as I expected it is alot Lighter and the center of mass up high is alot less than it was that bike does indeed have a high center of mass and I guess that is because of the full gas tank of 5+gallons... which is quite high on the bike right now without the saddle bags on it it feels like the COG is about between the bottom of the gas tank and the cylinder head ....at a guess with the saddle bags on and the 30lbs of stuff I always carry with me it's almost certainly at the bottom of the gas tank..... that's pirty High ! ..... the ride..... the ride was disapointing at best ... it still rides like a truck but it is indeed a little softer not much just a little bit !..... it will still try to knock my teeth out on a few bumps on that road but it is a little better ! so I will try to find a spring for it again. ..... it didn't run very good at first but soon cleared out and was it's plesant self.... it felt like the choke was left on.... but obviously no choke with the fuel injection ...it's still running so lean at idle it misses everyonce in a while.... I have resigned myself to that is the way it's going to run...I don't like that but I can't do anything about it ! maybe a resister after the air temp sensor or something, but nothing concrete as of yet. ...... so ABS works great, Ride sucks, and seat height is still a bit too tall for me I can touch flat footed with both feet at a stop, but just barely...another inch lower would be perfect ! ..... at 70mph it is tacking at 5,500 RPM..... and feels a bit buzzy at that speed steeper final drive would really be nice on that bike ! ..... I went down to the lake here and there is no water, it has receded to way down there ! we are at end of summer low-ness at the beginning of summer...... not a good thing at all !!!!! .... Bob......
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It's too late when you've gone too far ! |
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05-01-2022, 04:10 AM
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#30 |
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Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Weed, California.
Posts: 271
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OK ABS on the RX4..... what do I know about it NOW ?
.... it does work as they intended it to.... .... both wheels are linked together so the rear will activate the front brake if needed .... the wheels are independant in the fact that you can use either without affecting the other wheel up to the point of skidding at that point both wheels are affected. .... the bike does indeed stop very fast by itself and I will be hard pressed to beat it on a good day ! so I'm definitely not taking the ABS system OFF ! LOL .... I think installing a ABS switch for the dirt would be a good thing as there are times when you want to lock either wheel up and keep it locked up and the ABS system prevents that... and that is not what I want. so a switch is in the works ! ........... This has definately been a learning experience... Me jumping to conclusions and not knowing how they actually work definately screws a person up ! For That I appoligise to everyone here.... I should have had concrete evedence and not guess work, and more knowledge on how the system really works than "what I was told" years ago.... I've wanted ABS on a bike sense they first came out because I thought "that will put an END to front end wash-outs !" now that I own one I'm not so sure that is the case at all...... if your tearing around a corner and not using your brakes and hit pee-gravel or sand the ABS brakes are not going to help with that unless if you hit your brakes and that act causes it to brake traction then the ABS will kick in and intervene for you... ... most likely your going down anyway as the traction is not available for that speed. the ABS can't help with stupidity ! LOL but it can help with miss applied brake pressure in fact it excells at that ! hit the rear brake too hard and the rear wheel brakes traction it will then apply some braking force to the front wheel and keep you slowing down at the same rate you were slowing down before you broke traction..... THAT IS PIRTY DARN SLICK !!!! but Old riders need to be aware of that fact so they don't defeet the ABS when braking you need to put away your skills and just pound the brakes and let the bike stop itself and that is not so easy to do sometimes ! .... My first test of the ABS system was a failure because I defeated the ABS System I used my skills to keep the rear from braking loose and all braking went askew ! you have to brake like a idiot and then the system works great ! .... Bob....
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