Idle air flow

[artur94]

NzBrakelathes
Have a look at my post No11
I have clean, set Throttle body butterfly valve, restart ECU and this didn't help.
4 photos of PCHUD shows what you asking for.

Stepper motor is around 30/35 steps when Idling
Voltage is 14.4 when all switched off, after switching all ON is dropping to about 12.4V and if closed loop is not active engine is keeping up with this load, when Idling.
Only what I have find out it was that when Closed loop activated engine playing up when under Power load.
Maybe one of the sensor is not sending the correct informations to ECU

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by artur94

NzBrakelathes
Have a look at my post No11
I have clean, set Throttle body butterfly valve, restart ECU and this didn't help.
4 photos of PCHUD shows what you asking for.

Stepper motor is around 30/35 steps when Idling
Voltage is 14.4 when all switched off, after switching all ON is dropping to about 12.4V and if closed loop is not active engine is keeping up with this load, when Idling.
Only what I have find out it was that when Closed loop activated engine playing up when under Power load.
Maybe one of the sensor is not sending the correct informations to ECU

Here is what I se (Mind you its a photo not live data as if bike was here )

You have LOW voltage when things are powered on - I almost think you need to check and compare to another external volt meter if the ECU is seeing it correctly or you have a poor regulator or stator.

Your Air temp coolant temp tells me it bloody cold where you are! is that true? is the coolant temp and air temp when you first start the bike somewhere correct? is it nearly snowing? temps at engine warmed up seem ok.

The Injection ms (Milliseconds) should be somewhere around 2.3 - 2.5ms when engine is warm (above 60 degrees C) I see its 3.0 is that when engine is cold and it is in Choke mode?
O2 sensor voltage if all things are correct should move "lean to rich" or volts up n down.

The stepper motor below 42 steps is OK

[NzBrakelathes]

O2 voltage should cycle low to higher or blue bar go left to right etc and shows a milli volt reading.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by artur94

Stepper motor is around 30/35 steps when Idling
...
Maybe one of the sensor is not sending the correct informations to ECU

Looking again at the PCHUD output, it seems that it is indicating the Desired Stepper Count, not the actual count. What you are seeing on the output screen is what the ECU is commanding the stepper to do but is not necessarily what it actually is doing. Since you have already replaced the stator and regulator, we'll assume that they are good and not suffering from infant mortality. Therefore, I am going to second NZ's recommendation on the stepper motor. Since there doesn't seem to be a way for the ECU to actually know what the stepper motor has done versus what it was commanded to do, if I was you, I would try to borrow a known good IAC stepper or buy a new one, in that order, and swap them out with yours and see if it corrects the problem.

[artur94]

Thanks Gays for your suggestions.


NzBrakelathes


I know that reading information’s from my photos of PCHUD is difficult.
I know that need to change one or two parts, but want to start of the correct one :-)
I have another small Volt meter mounted permanently by dash board and ECU is correct in the Volt reading.

When engine RPM are not dropping the Volts stay around 13 V with all switch ON only when RPM dropping down Volts dropping down to.
In London GB is now around 15*C at present So the sensors are right.


I have seen that Injection ms (Milliseconds) has dropped down to 2.6 Ms but engine wanted to switch off in this stage "CLOSE LOOP "
ECU is indicate the lower RPM but when looking at the PCHUD program the reaction is to slow.


When RPM slowing down ECU is sending the data to Stepper motor and rising Steps higher and higher but this is not helping.



Working_ZS


Can you just tell me what inside of the stepper motor?
From the Wiring Schematic which is on the web:
http://www.rx3adventure.com/rx3_wiring_schematic.html


I think that stepper motor is named there “idle controlling valve” which 4 of the cable going to ECU.


I was thinking that 2cable is for ECU to be able to control the Valve and the other 2 is to adjust the valve



But after all it may be that;
- 2 cables are to control Valve when in LOOP mode
- Other 2 are to control valve in NOT LOOP mode


Do you think that is good way I am thinking of this IAC valve?


So like I have indicate early when in NOT LOOP mode engine works perfect even under the Power load,
And when in Close LOOP mode the engine has problems to be able keeping idle speed correctly.


Do you gays know how to test this stepper motor on my bench? I don’t have no One to be able swop the Stepper motor with.


Thank You for your help and hoping to bring this to the end :-)

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by artur94

Can you just tell me what inside of the stepper motor?
From the Wiring Schematic which is on the web:
http://www.rx3adventure.com/rx3_wiring_schematic.html


I think that stepper motor is named there “idle controlling valve” which 4 of the cable going to ECU.


I was thinking that 2cable is for ECU to be able to control the Valve and the other 2 is to adjust the valve



But after all it may be that;
- 2 cables are to control Valve when in LOOP mode
- Other 2 are to control valve in NOT LOOP mode


Do you think that is good way I am thinking of this IAC valve?

...

Do you gays know how to test this stepper motor on my bench? I don’t have no One to be able swop the Stepper motor with.

Thank You for your help and hoping to bring this to the end :-)

From the number of leads and the need for the motor to reverse, it sounds like a 2 phase bipolar stepper. You have four electromagnets inside, split into two groups or "phases". One pair of wires controls the first phase and the other pair controls the second phase. This arrangement allows the driver circuit to be able to reverse the current flow in each phase so that the motor can step both clockwise and counterclockwise. Per the wiring diagram, the phases appear to be grouped as such:

First Phase control wires : Brown with White tracer & Brown with Green tracer

Second Phase control wires: Brown with Blue tracer & Brown with Yellow tracer

Note that this may be different on your actual bike, do not take this as gospel. Definitely verify these wire colors before you do anything. As I mentioned earlier, there does not appear to be any provision inside the stepper motor to actually measure and confirm to the ECU whether or not the motor actually moved the correct number of steps as commanded by the ECU; the ECU issues the command and simply assumes that the stepper motor is able to, and actually did, what it was told to do.

Here is a video which should show you some quick tests that you can do off the bike:

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by artur94

Thanks Gays for your suggestions.


NzBrakelathes


I know that reading information’s from my photos of PCHUD is difficult.
I know that need to change one or two parts, but want to start of the correct one :-)
I have another small Volt meter mounted permanently by dash board and ECU is correct in the Volt reading.

When engine RPM are not dropping the Volts stay around 13 V with all switch ON only when RPM dropping down Volts dropping down to.
In London GB is now around 15*C at present So the sensors are right.


I have seen that Injection ms (Milliseconds) has dropped down to 2.6 Ms but engine wanted to switch off in this stage "CLOSE LOOP "
ECU is indicate the lower RPM but when looking at the PCHUD program the reaction is to slow.


When RPM slowing down ECU is sending the data to Stepper motor and rising Steps higher and higher but this is not helping.



Working_ZS


Can you just tell me what inside of the stepper motor?
From the Wiring Schematic which is on the web:
http://www.rx3adventure.com/rx3_wiring_schematic.html


I think that stepper motor is named there “idle controlling valve” which 4 of the cable going to ECU.


I was thinking that 2cable is for ECU to be able to control the Valve and the other 2 is to adjust the valve



But after all it may be that;
- 2 cables are to control Valve when in LOOP mode
- Other 2 are to control valve in NOT LOOP mode


Do you think that is good way I am thinking of this IAC valve?


So like I have indicate early when in NOT LOOP mode engine works perfect even under the Power load,
And when in Close LOOP mode the engine has problems to be able keeping idle speed correctly.


Do you gays know how to test this stepper motor on my bench? I don’t have no One to be able swop the Stepper motor with.


Thank You for your help and hoping to bring this to the end :-)

I strongly suspect you have an regulator or stator issue as voltage drops - my bike doesn't (yes I know your parts are new but...)

Seems as if ECU isn't getting enough volts but then again if battery fully charged it should actually still be fine so maybe I am wrong.
I had a bad stator no charge on my bike but it still ran fine so thinking about it I could be very wrong.

Contact the UK importer as I sold them some parts and they should have an ECU and stepper motor spare or maybe they can loan you something for testing (or I can send you new parts if needed)

[artur94]

Working ZS

Thank You tor this informations this is very helpfully



NzBrakelathes
So how did you tested the stator?
I have done the stator tests and ich phase is giving around 14 Amps - AC don't remember the Voltage at the moment.

Can you give me the price of the folowing parts:
- Stepper motor
- Power regulator
- complete throttle body( with stepper motor and TPS sensor)
- O2 sensor
- ECU module
And how much it will cost me the posteg to UK?
If you want send me the prices to Private account if you find some time

Thank you

[NzBrakelathes]

Originally Posted by artur94

Working ZS

Thank You tor this informations this is very helpfully



NzBrakelathes
So how did you tested the stator?
I have done the stator tests and ich phase is giving around 14 Amps - AC don't remember the Voltage at the moment.

Can you give me the price of the folowing parts:
- Stepper motor
- Power regulator
- complete throttle body( with stepper motor and TPS sensor)
- O2 sensor
- ECU module
And how much it will cost me the posteg to UK?
If you want send me the prices to Private account if you find some time

Thank you

Hi
PM please

[NzBrakelathes]

Was playing with a stepper motor replacement thing this week,it manually adjusts the nose of the stepper motor while the real stepper isn’t mounted in throttle body
Anyway try unplugging stepper while idle is good n that stops it moving maybe making it idle ok, end result diagnosing if this is the issue meaning stepper motor is had

[artur94]

I have find out to that if the stepper motor removed from the throttle body your can push in the centre pine to change the position of it .
But after restarting ECU 5 x ON & 5 off , ECU is commanding stepper motor to fully close the valve and after return back 135 steps - to open posytion. That’s way ECU know the position of the end tip of stepper motor, but like someone has noticed stepper motor it may move less or more what’s ECU actually commands.
After I have watch so many videos on YouTube about 02 sensors I have decided to change my one, and still waiting for delivery.
Also watch videos of STFT – short term fuel trim and LTFT – long term fuel trim.
Using PCHUD noticed that on my bike that after my bike is switching to close loop ECU is commanding to reduce full trims to: LTFT minus 10% (LTFT CORR FACT 0.904 factor (wher 0.999 = 0%)) this fuel trim is big value and I think this may cause my problem.
This Value is negative because 02 sensor is detecting “Rich” 530 to 1075 mV which means there is lack of Oxygen in exhaust gases.


I think this may be because:
- 02 sensor is not detecting real value
- Stepper motor is closing the air more than ECU is commands
- Fuel injection is to big, do to injector leak, or full pomp giving increased pressure.



So after new 02 sensor fitted will check again.


Please correct me if I am wrong in any way.
Bellow photo of PCHUD with LTFT minus 10%

[NzBrakelathes]

Remove stepper motor push it up a little and refit BUT DO NOT PLUG IT IN.
Ignore fault code see what happens ride it and see.
I didn't get an order for an O2 sensor yet

[artur94]

Hi NzBrakelathes



I think that My problem has been fix now after changing for New O2 sensor. The engine is working fine in any electric Power consumption, hitter grips and culling fans when switch ON don’t kill the engine any more, when idling.


This new O2 sensor when looking on PCHUD readings it is working like supposed to be and mini Volts are between 100.00mV to 750.00mV , when old O2 sensor was installed 530.00mV to 1075.00 mV.


This new O2 sensor is also gets ECU to close loop operation Quicker than the old one.


However the Long term Fuel trim (LTFT) is also falling down to minus 9% in some occasion (it is circulating around minus 5%) but it is responding quicker, I think O2 sensor is sending more correct values to ECU and ECU can responds better and Quicker to all changes in Exhaust gases.


I have ride my bike only for 30min today and it is fill much better and hitter grips was ON and culling fans switch ON to in some occasion, together with fog lights this didn’t kill the engine at all.


If the problem will come back I will definition ask for more help :-)


So after all I have learn a lot:
- - -Butterfly valve has to be fully close when idling
- - - good O2 sensor has to switching between 100mV to 900mV
- --Stepper motor can be tested when removed from the bike and restart ECU 5xON -5xOFF but be carful that the centre tip is not fell out from the motor ( centre tip must to be restricted so motor want push all out) This test will only show stepper motor movement, but it want show if stepper is actually doing what ECU command.
- --STFT short term fuel trim and LTFT term fuel trim view Videos on YouTube
- - -O2 sensors view Videos on YouTube explaining correct operations and testing “O2 sensor explanation”
- - -When switch ON all electric equipment ( in my case 14 Amperes )- Volts will drop normally to 12.1V and engine is not stopping when idling.


When this bike it was on Guaranty time, I have call for servicing 7 times and this crape mechanic cannot figured out.
After I have open the throttle body butterfly valve a bit, it make my bike usable, for last 3 years.



I have make on my bike 10 000 mile with my old O2 sensor which I believe was broken from new, because my bike never work like today



I want to Thank You all for Help and wish you good long rides :-)


Photo of PCHUD screen shot after install new 02 sensor

[Working_ZS]

Glad that you were able to figure it out and get your bike running like a top.

Also, thanks for posting the solution to your problem. I can't count the number of times that I have been trying to track down a solution to a problem on some web forum, where the original poster gets it fixed but never reports back on the solution. It's very aggravating to say the least. This thread should help other RX3 owners in the future.

[artur94]

Hey this was my plane If I will find the solution placed on this forum.
I know how you feel “Working ZS” , when I look for solution last 3 years.
I wish to change the name of this thread so it will be easy to find if needed, do you having any proposition of new name?
I was also thinking of some sort of 02 sensor protection shield, but this is another project.
On my bike 2015 model, 02 sensor is placed directly behind the front wheel, which is not helping when riding in the rain.
OK thanks Guys for all your help.
I will make some more miles and will inform, if this is 100% solution for my ex problem.