What is the top speed on your China Bike?

[RedCrowRides]

My 2018 Gen 2 Vader with an aftermarket exhaust , carb, filter, and CDI runs about 62-65 max , with stock gearing. I have a 17T front sprocket that would help top end but

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end . I have a Sportster i use if I'm going somewhere that would require a long distance hi-speed WFO run on the Vader.


Even given a 17t front sprocket i just dont think you will see more than 65mph and that is with a lightweight rider ,carb, exhaust , etc. and that is flat out at redline on a flat surface ( or downhill lol ).


If you want to do much more than that then you are looking at a Zs190 swap in ,the 5th gear it offers plus more CC is about the only way to get there afaik .

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

My 2018 Gen 2 Vader with an aftermarket exhaust , carb, filter, and CDI runs about 62-65 max , with stock gearing. I have a 17T front sprocket that would help top end but

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end . I have a Sportster i use if I'm going somewhere that would require a long distance hi-speed WFO run on the Vader.


Even given a 17t front sprocket i just dont think you will see more than 65mph and that is with a lightweight rider ,carb, exhaust , etc. and that is flat out at redline on a flat surface ( or downhill lol ).


If you want to do much more than that then you are looking at a Zs190 swap in ,the 5th gear it offers plus more CC is about the only way to get there afaik .

Anything near or over 60mph is probably all I would ever care to hit on my Vader with stock engine and probably would want to change out other parts too if I wanted to ride it on the highway on the regular. SO that's pretty good in my book.
My Vader in stock form seems to it 40 fast enough but that's as fast as I've tried as of yet--I think that was around 6k RPM to hit 40MPH stock on an engine with 40 miles or less and I wasn't trying to go 40 until after I shifted to 4th under 30mph I was like ehh maybe I'll open it up a little even though the speed limit was pretty low

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

my primary use is stunting so i need torque more than top end

How do I 'fat nooner' with a 4 stroke?

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

How do I 'fat nooner' with a 4 stroke?

4 strokes generally make significantly more torque than 2 strokes AT LEAST at low rpms and often thru most of the band so it should be easier with a 4 stroke to wheelie than with a 2 stroke -so the 4 stroke should be able to pull fat ass nooners for days in circles around the 2 strokes.

if you meant how do you wheelie on a 4T vs wheelies on a 2T..

[scoot newb]

I'm not sure. This thing is such a POS. At 90km/h it feels unsafe. I haven't tried going any faster.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I'm not sure. This thing is such a POS. At 90km/h it feels unsafe. I haven't tried going any faster.

Did you expect to get a bike that you would feel confident going much faster than 40mph on when you ordered the Hellcat? IMSO it's supposed to be a cheap little doing laps around the neighborhood, running around town maybe going to the store, maybe lower speed stunting and tinkering on bike.

I mean they are one of the cheapest road legal bikes you can get brand new, so I hope you or anyone else didn't go to one of the places selling them for anymore than about $1200-$1300 delivered--I paid $1200 delivered, but have seen places trying to sell it for over $1000 more at almost $2500 maybe more I can't remember but it's ridiculous! I almost bought a used pitbike-- I talked a few people down to under $300 for bikes such as Thumpstar--and I was considering just throwing on lights and mirrors/reflectors/horn to make it legal--maybe even throw a moped plate on it, but I guess Im too lazy or wanted the easy way out so I spent many hundreds more on a more or less road ready bike in my Vader

I'm just hoping mine will last a little while before it blows up--at least until I'm ready to replace the engine with something better. During the first week or two when I was putting 10 miles on it every other day and it was hard to find neutral at first, yadda yadda, then seemed to be getting better, And then I think I messed up a shift or something the other day and the bike almost sounded like something was rubbing against the tire while I was riding after that. Now strange things have happened since like once I think it stalled out in like 2nd gear due to the intermittent fuel issue I still have, probably due to the emissions crap I still haven't taken off--anyhow I turn it off to preserve battery and try to find neutral, I thought I had because the bike rolled freely, then I turn the power on before I was going to start it and the indicator no joke said 3rd gear and the bike moved freely! AND to test if it was indicated properly I left the power on (engine was still off) and I shifted down to 2nd, then 1st--so I'm pretty sure it was in 3rd gear--or at least stuck somehwere near 3rd gear, but although I have watched a few similar videos on the inside of gearboxes and how they work--I am no engineer or expert so I'm not even sure if it could possibly really have been in or near 3rd gear and rolling freely like it was in Neutral--all while my hand was off the clutch. Another weird thing is sometimes, usually when I get homw from a ride and after I hit the kill switch & turn off the elecric power, I either already have it in Neutral or put it in neutral but it doesn't feel like it's rolling perfect like making a tiny noise intermittently at one point as I'm pushing it and I have come to realize if I lean the bike towards the clutch side when I am pushing it in Neutral like this sometimes it pops out of Neutral and the rear wheel locks up!---I am going to take an uneducated and quite possibly wrong guess that some of my issues might be that the gear selector forks, which are actuated by the gear drum, are maybe not all the way into the slot sometimes when I put it in gear so they can slip out to the next gear from say neutral and maybe that time I pushed it (mentioned above) in 3rd gear the clutch was stuck in even though I had realeased the clutch handle--OR maybe the gear selector fork hadn't pushed the gear all the way to lock up to a fixed gear so it could have still been freewheeling..? I really hope I haven't screwed up my gear box so fast...but oh well live and learn I guess. it would be too bad if I did ruin the gearbox because he rest of the engine, although a bit underpowered, starts up every time pretty easily and feels like it could run for thousands and thousands of miles perhaps

In any event, I do agree, kind of, that these bikes or at least parts of them, are kind of POS, but i am also saying no one should expect more from them than what they are. Kind of like don't buy a cheap, poorly rated car and be surprised when the car acts like a cheap car by having cheap parts that break easier than cars that are rated as reliable. Don't buy a mini/stunt/hooligan bike that's designed from the factory to cruise at 45mph, maybe go a little faster but not really sustained much faster and be upset it isn't feeling safe at slow highway speeds. Also, the 2018 Boom Vader I got is loads better, in a different league really, than some of the earlier motorcycle/scooters I have seen come out of China nearly 20 years ago. A couple of the scooters I have owned you would get them new, take the plastics off once gently and try to put the plastic back on as gentle as possible and the way they were fastened would mean the plastics would then fall off or be broken right away pretty much no matter what you did so it would be leave off the plastics, glue/epoxy them on or ride with junkie, broken plastics on your nearly brand new scooter

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

Did you expect to get a bike that you would feel confident going much faster than 40mph on when you ordered the Hellcat? IMSO it's supposed to be a cheap little doing laps around the neighborhood, running around town maybe going to the store, maybe lower speed stunting and tinkering on bike.

I mean they are one of the cheapest road legal bikes you can get brand new, so I hope you or anyone else didn't go to one of the places selling them for anymore than about $1200-$1300 delivered--I paid $1200 delivered, but have seen places trying to sell it for over $1000 more at almost $2500 maybe more I can't remember but it's ridiculous!

I'm just hoping mine will last a little while before it blows up--at least until I'm ready to replace the engine with something better. During the first week or two when I was putting 10 miles on it every other day and it was hard to find neutral at first, yadda yadda, then seemed to be getting better, And then I think I messed up a shift or something the other day and the bike almost sounded like something was rubbing against the tire while I was riding after that. Now strange things have happened since like once I think it stalled out in like 2nd gear due to the intermittent fuel issue I still have, probably due to the emissions crap I still haven't taken off--anyhow I turn it off to preserve battery and try to find neutral, I thought I had because the bike rolled freely, then I turn the power on before I was going to start it and the indicator no joke said 3rd gear and the bike moved freely! AND to test if it was indicated properly I left the power on (engine was still off) and I shifted down to 2nd, then 1st--so I'm pretty sure it was in 3rd gear--or at least stuck somehwere near 3rd gear, but although I have watched a few similar videos on the inside of gearboxes and how they work--I am no engineer or expert so I'm not even sure if it could possibly really have been in or near 3rd gear and rolling freely like it was in Neutral--all while my hand was off the clutch. Another weird thing is sometimes, usually when I get homw from a ride and after I hit the kill switch & turn off the elecric power, I either already have it in Neutral or put it in neutral but it doesn't feel like it's rolling perfect like making a tiny noise intermittently at one point as I'm pushing it and I have come to realize if I lean the bike towards the clutch side when I am pushing it in Neutral like this sometimes it pops out of Neutral and the rear wheel locks up!---I am going to take an uneducated and quite possibly wrong guess that some of my issues might be that the gear selector forks, which are actuated by the gear drum, are maybe not all the way into the slot sometimes when I put it in gear so they can slip out to the next gear from say neutral and maybe that time I pushed it (mentioned above) in 3rd gear the clutch was stuck in even though I had realeased the clutch handle--OR maybe the gear selector fork hadn't pushed the gear all the way to lock up to a fixed gear so it could have still been freewheeling..? I really hope I haven't screwed up my gear box so fast...but oh well live and learn I guess. it would be too bad if I did ruin the gearbox because he rest of the engine, although a bit underpowered, starts up every time pretty easily and feels like it could run for thousands and thousands of miles perhaps

In any event, I do agree, kind of, that these bikes or at least parts of them, are kind of POS, but i am also saying no one should expect more from them than what they are. Kind of like don't buy a cheap, poorly rated car and be surprised when the car acts like a cheap car by having cheap parts that break easier than cars that are rated as reliable. Don't buy a mini/stunt/hooligan bike that's designed from the factory to cruise at 45mph, maybe go a little faster but not really sustained much faster and be upset it isn't feeling safe at slow highway speeds. Also, the 2018 Boom Vader I got is loads better, in a different league really, than some of the earlier motorcycle/scooters I have seen come out of China nearly 20 years ago. A couple of the scooters I have owned you would get them new, take the plastics off once gently and try to put the plastic back on as gentle as possible and the way they were fastened would mean the plastics would then fall off or be broken right away pretty much no matter what you did so it would be leave off the plastics, glue/epoxy them on or ride with junkie, broken plastics on your nearly brand new scooter

I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.

I was just about to delete this comment I made since I went off topic of the specific thread. Again.

You do make some valid points. Like I said, Im hoping my gearbox or whatever part of the power transmission isn't knackered already with only 150 miles on it, at least some of that is probably me learning to shift it and at what rpm, plus I broke half the clutch lever when the bike fell because the kickstand doesn't do it's job well--you need to make sure it "settles" when you put it on the kickstand-it moves an inch or two or it will fall over--and having only half a clutch lever might mean I've been not having the clutch all the way pulled for shifts, not sure but I just ordered a new and better adjustable lever/handle, also the bike's performance either from changing during break-in or a crimped gas/emission line problem Ive had...but I guess maybe I've been lucky or not put enough miles on mine or the Vader could be slightly better quality, only time will tell..

Sounds to me like if your bike is running at all maybe you should put it up for sale to recover what you can while you can and et something else. I still wonder sometimes if I should've spent the money on say a used Ninja 250cc or whatever--I found a Ninja 250 in less than 30 seconds the other day listed as the second search result for $1900, it was about 10 years old I think, under 7k miles--was probably a learning bike but looked in good shape. AND I'm sure I could've found cheaper had I continues looking but I stopped right there.

Only time will tell me if Im happy or get my money's worth at all out of my Vader, so far I'm not sure of that, but I am sure I defend the clones when you say it's a POS partly out of hopiung my overall experience with it after owning it and riding it for a significant amount of time will be a good one, and partly because it hasnt been really bad at all for me yet, some not great stuff but nothing completely broke other than the handle when I let it fall over.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

I didn't expect poor frame welds. Poor to the point where brackets break off the frame from vibration. I wasn't expecting a defective triple tree preventing the bike from passing State inspection at a legitimate shop. I wasn't expecting it to randomly pop out of gear. The bike I received is a project bike at best. A death trap at worst.

I felt safer riding a modified ATM 50 at those speeds. This thing is a bucket of bolts.

Is your rear wheel locking up when it pops out of gear when riding? If yes that sounds like a nightmare--literally that is one thing I have really worried about happening. Also is the bracket that broke on yours like the lower front fairing bracket near the trip tree?

funny side note I had that scooter you mention and I did put about 10k miles on it in maybe 4 months plus when I got it used with about 10k miles on it already, so I suppose it was ridden enough to get my money's worth and then some---but anyways the plastics on mine were way worse than the Vader and loads of stuff, bolts etc fell of mine as I was riding--

[scoot newb]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

Is your rear wheel locking up when it pops out of gear when riding? If yes that sounds like a nightmare--literally that is one thing I have really worried about happening. Also is the bracket that broke on yours like the lower front fairing bracket near the trip tree?

funny side note I had that scooter you mention and I did put about 10k miles on it in maybe 4 months plus when I got it used with about 10k miles on it already, so I suppose it was ridden enough to get my money's worth and then some---but anyways the plastics on mine were way worse than the Vader and loads of stuff, bolts etc fell of mine as I was riding--

No, my rear wheel isn't locking up. Mine is more like ... going from 2'nd to 3'rd, it will pop back down to 2nd soon after the shift. It doesn't lock up. It's just like downshifting without the clutch.

The bracket that broke on mine was the voltage regulator bracket by the rear shock.

[Azhule]

"It's made by Subaru so you know it will be more reliable than the sun"

I just love seeing and working on Toyotas (along with Ford, Kia, Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, Lotus, Nissan, BMW, Jeep, Dodge, Suzuki, Mercedes, Subaru, Chevy, Lexus, etc....) with the know it all owner. Over the years I have had hundreds of Toyota owners show up with sludged up engines, mainly due to their design and possibly lack of owners maintenance or cheap oil/aftermarket parts (PCV and EGR parts also like to cake up with blow by/carbon that no one bothers to clean...)... tons of $$ was made that day

Engines looking like the one in the link below would show up all the time

https://www.justanswer.com/toyota/7q...-mechanic.html

Not trying to get into a pissing contest over Subaru and "Brand XYZ" is better or worse; I have owned 3 Subarus and 2 Toyotas and would buy from either brand again if the price for power/luxury is right; all I'm saying is every car can have it's issues and lemons... just be happy most of the cars sold today are good at hiding any issues from "improper use"

Fun Fact; Subaru Corporation still owns 16.48% of Toyota; Subaru Corporation/Aerospace Company also makes a few different kinds of airplanes

https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/outline/business_aero.html

Back on topic for this ASE Tech

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Azhule

"It's made by Subaru so you know it will be more reliable than the sun"



Engines looking like the one in the link below would show up all the time

https://www.justanswer.com/toyota/7q...-mechanic.html

Not trying to get into a pissing contest over Subaru and "Brand XYZ" is better or worse; I have owned 3 Subarus and 2 Toyotas and would buy from either brand again if the price for power/luxury is right; all I'm saying is every car can have it's issues and lemons... just be happy most of the cars sold today are good at hiding any issues from "improper use"

Fun Fact; Subaru Corporation still owns 16.48% of Toyota; Subaru Corporation/Aerospace Company also makes a few different kinds of airplanes

https://www.subaru.co.jp/en/outline/business_aero.html

Back on topic for this ASE Tech

wait dont you meant Toyota owns over 16% of Subarus parent company Fuji Heavy Industries that would print their name all over the bad electrical components I had to switch out of countless Subarus at relatively low milage? Or do they both own that much of each other's companies?

[sirmaxwell]

I dont mean to get in an arguement over the brands either I have worked on mostly friends and families cars and spent a few years as a mechanic but really disliked the people i worked for and quit when I got my accounting degree. The one thing all the cars have in common is they all break down. I have seen many probably most people abuse their cars even if they know what they are doing because of time constraints, lack of money or they just cant be bothered to do even basic very neccesary maintainence. I cant remember how many times I have pulled off rotors with holes in them---and i dont mean cross drilled rotors I mean the regular rotors that were up against the backing plate that used to hold brake pads for sooo long that the backing plate went straight thru the rotor all the way around! I remember one time seeing a woman drive her Mercedes in when i worked at a full service Meineke--she hadn't changed her oil in between 20,000-30000 miles and it was solid in the bottom of the oil pan when we pulled it!

[scoot newb]

Hmm. IDK fam, I recently hopped on an older RM 80 and it was nooner city. This thing is lacking. Maybe my clone is really f-ed up.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by scoot newb

Hmm. IDK fam, I recently hopped on an older RM 80 and it was nooner city. This thing is lacking. Maybe my clone is really f-ed up.

I can't argue against the Rm-80. maybe gearing and other parts that came factory on the Rm are just better.
On a side note I've heard many people saying 2-strokes will be dead before long I guess mostly due to emissions--even the top of the line direct injection clean ones its like they have already pretty much done all they can to clean up emissions on those so as the new CARB and Euro emissions keep getting tougher plus many, not all but many companies have been getting away from making them partially or sompletely andaren't investing in new 2T tech. I don't think we will see them too much longer.
I used to love my 2 stroke mopeds and an old dirtbike my brother had and my hedge trimmer and chain saw.

and oops I meant to say b4 the 4stroke makes more torque per cycle and at the same RPM the 2T has twice as many cycles. Still I have seen people do all sorts of grom and grom clone wheelies, personally Im not very good at wheelies