Still looking for an axle, get desperate - Page 2

Weldangrind · 05-12-2017, 11:35 AM

Bruce is a real gentleman!

Bruce's · 05-12-2017, 04:17 PM

I just have way too many bikes ,and way too many parts ,I don't have storage for everything ,and I really have to make some room .

turbofiat124 · 05-17-2017, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

I just have way too many bikes ,and way too many parts ,I don't have storage for everything ,and I really have to make some room .

Got the axle yesterday! I haven't had a chance to unwrap it but it appears it has the bearing housing, sprocket and rotor along with it so that is a major plus. I thought you were just going to send me just the axle.

Send me a PM so I can compensate you.

I really appreciate it!

Bruce's · 05-17-2017, 07:23 AM

I figured I should send everything in case the dimensions are wrong ,I was sending the wheels and tires as well but the tires were really bad .
Do not worry about the shipping ,it was my treat and hopefully it will get your daughters bike up and running again .
Bruce.

turbofiat124 · 05-17-2017, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

I figured I should send everything in case the dimensions are wrong ,I was sending the wheels and tires as well but the tires were really bad .
Do not worry about the shipping ,it was my treat and hopefully it will get your daughters bike up and running again .
Bruce.

I really appreciate it. I would at least like to compensate you for shipping. I can't really tell how much shipping was on the shipping label. Due to the sticker being what was underneath the carbon paper. Best I can tell it was around CAN$40.

Bruce's · 05-17-2017, 03:00 PM

Please don't worry about it ,just get the bike back together and enjoy it .

turbofiat124 · 05-20-2017, 07:57 PM

Thanks Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Today I mounted the axle assembly to the bike.

First thing. I couldn't get the top bolt (brake caliper side) to go through the swing arm. Some investigating showed the weld on the carrier section was interfering so I removed just enough metal. Now all four bolts slide right in.

Axle assembly now mounted:

Sprockets align: Check
Chain is the same size: Check
Brake caliper mounting holes align with mounts on axle assembly: Check

I had to use some longer bolts due to the design difference.

Only issue now is the wheels. The replacement axle is a bit shorter (like 2"). That's probably not a big deal considering the front wheels stuck out wider than the rears to begin with. I think I can turn the rear wheels inside out to make them stick out a bit further.

The only issue to sort out is the bolt pattern.

The replacement axle uses 13mm axle nuts. The original axle used 16mm axle nuts. The hubs that fit this axle use a 3 bolt pattern and my wheels uses a 4 bolt pattern.

So I got a couple of options.

1) I can try to make my own hub adapter/wheel spacer to go between the 13mm hubs and my wheels but I seriously doubt I could get it spot on, otherwise the rear wheels would wobble like crazy.
2) Pay a machine shop to make me a couple of hub adapters (big bucks)
3) Find some 13 mm ID hubs that will with a 4 bolt pattern
4) Find some rims/tires to fit with a 3 bolt pattern

The tire size is 16X8-7. Sellers on Ebay says this is a 7" wheel but I measured 8".

So far here are some wheels/tires that might work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16x8-7-200-5...VWTTha&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/145-70-6-Tir...3D151435240388

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16x8-7-Wheel...3D151435240388

Just a quick search on Ebay seems to suggest I will have better luck at finding new wheels/tires with a 3 bolt pattern than 13mm hubs with a four bolt pattern.

However I just remembered that Snapper riding mowers use a rear 3 bolt pattern and the wheels and tires are roughly the same size. Some investigation shows 77mm is roughly 3" apart. Snapper bolt pattern is 3.5" apart. I just so happen to have 2 disabled Snapper riding mowers. Maybe with a little work I can mount some Snapper wheels on this ATV.

So I've gotten off to a good start.

My daughter is getting excited to see her ATV running again.

turbofiat124 · 05-23-2017, 07:13 AM

Well here's the latest.

I pulled the wheels off my old Snapper and bolted them to the rear hubs. The tires at least are pretty much the same size as the original ones!

I couldn't get the Allen head bolts from the original rear wheels to screw into the hubs. I'm not sure if the size is different but kind of looks like the threads maybe stripped out a bit. I think they are M10.

I found some M8 in my box of Fiat/Yugo fasteners and used nuts on the backside of the wheels but they soon worked loose and wobbled. No worries.

The plan now is to drill and tap out of the holes in the hubs for the next size up which is 7/16". So that way I'm not dependent on using nuts on the backside of the rims.

Then LockTite the bolts in place. Hopefully the the 3.25" X 3 bolt pattern being a bit larger and the holes in the wheels being 1" OD will hold once I use some larger flat washers.

No reason paying out of the nose for metric bolts when I can go to Tractor Supply and buy what I need for a couple of bucks.

That's the plan now.

The other idea is to come up with a template and cross drill the holes in the wheels for the 3" X 3 bolt pattern in 7/16".

I'm thinking if I use longer bolts and stack some flat washers between the wheels and hubs should space them out about 2 to 3" to where they are the same width as the fronts to make it more stable.

I'm not sure if this would put any extra stress on the axle or the bolts themselves.

I'm going to paint the wheels silver and reinstall the rubber hub/nut covers. I just wanted to see for now if this was going to work. As long as I can keep the wheel bolts from working loose I think this is going to work.

Bruce's · 05-23-2017, 08:01 AM

The wheels I took off of that axle ,had bolts and nuts holding them on .

turbofiat124 · 05-23-2017, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce's

The wheels I took off of that axle ,had bolts and nuts holding them on .

That might have explained why I thought the threads were stripped out. I couldn't really tell.

The weird thing was an M10 bolt was too big for the hole and an M8 bolt did not fit snug. So the only other possibility is M9.

The only other thing I have encountered that uses M9 bolts is my Citroen 2CV. It being built by the French is no surprise they would use odd ball size fasteners.

I've had better luck finding M9 bolts from Lowe's hardware in their bins than autopart stores.

Other than the fact that I can buy Imperial fasteners by the pound from Tractor Supply versus an M9 bolt for 10 times the cost is I think using a larger 7/16" bolt will help offset the .25" difference between the bolt pattern and the larger 1/2" holes in the Snapper wheels.

I'm hoping this axle you sent me is stronger than the one that came on it. Everything from the frame forward on this ATV hasn't given me any issues. Every issue related has been with the swing arm system or axle.

Bruce's · 05-23-2017, 01:16 PM

That is from a Gio quad ,some like them a lot ,some have no luck with them ,but it's mainly stuff the owner didn't pdi correctly .A lot of their bigger quads have rear swing arm issues ,manufactured crooked so the chains fly off them all the time ,and the front shocks are not so good .Flashlightboy is a dealer for them so if you need anything he can help ,although I find them every single day so finding used parts is easy for me .
As for the wheel bolts ,they had a big shoulder on them like a sprocket bolt ,going to a tractor supply bolt is fine ,especially the weeks they are on for half price .We have only had a local tractor supply for 2 years ,but it's one of my favourite stores for various stuff .If you know one of the guys working there ,they have a program that you can have their store discount 20% ,if you are their friend .

FLASHLIGHTBOY · 05-23-2017, 10:20 PM

Hello... the rims that are the 77 mm is for the taotao .. and the other one is for the GIO.. atv.. I do not know what hubs you have,, spline size... but you can buy some wheel adapter to put on your hubs to the rims to move the rear wheels out further.. see ebay.. I posted it here once before.. they are just longer studs to move everything out... cheaper than the wheel adapters.. I have some hubs but do kow your splines size to fit....... so you are wanting a 4 bolt hub for the rims that you have .??? for a 16 inch wheel??? ok.. let us know ... maybe some in the storage pile..

turbofiat124 · 05-24-2017, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLASHLIGHTBOY

Hello... the rims that are the 77 mm is for the taotao .. and the other one is for the GIO.. atv.. I do not know what hubs you have,, spline size... but you can buy some wheel adapter to put on your hubs to the rims to move the rear wheels out further.. see ebay.. I posted it here once before.. they are just longer studs to move everything out... cheaper than the wheel adapters.. I have some hubs but do kow your splines size to fit....... so you are wanting a 4 bolt hub for the rims that you have .??? for a 16 inch wheel??? ok.. let us know ... maybe some in the storage pile..

I think the spline count is 17 teeth where the hub slides onto the axle. I never measured the diameter since I used the whole thing Bruce sent me.

The hub nuts are 13 mm. That was the kicker. Trying to find a 13mm hub that would accept a four bolt pattern wheel. The only other option was to swap wheels and rims.

At any rate with some work, I managed to get the Snapper wheels to work. So far they have not worked loose. I didn't want to sound cheap but the lowest I could find new Tao Tao rims and tires with the 3X3 bolt pattern was around $80. Since I had a couple of disabled Snappers, I thought why not give it a shot.

Despite the 3" X 3 bolt pattern on the hubs and the 3.25" X 3 bolt pattern on the wheels. I managed to get them centered pretty good. I can't tell there is any major runout. Maybe 1mm off.

Hubs drilled and tapped for 7/16"-14 so bolts so no nuts required on back of hubs. And LockTite applied to threads for extra insurance. Once again not to sound cheap but Imperial bolts are like 1/10th the cost of 10/11/12 mm bolts. No wonder Americans hate the metric system!

I had to stick some flat washers under the bolts on the sprocket size because the threaded end of the bolt was rubbing the chain.

I painted the wheels and mounted the rubber hub covers:

The axle is a bit shorter so the rear wheels are push inward worse than the original axle.

The bike still seems a bit unstable at high speeds on pavement. But can't tell if it's anymore unstable than with the other axle.

I'm not sure if moving the rear wheels out further would help this or not.

Please post the link of the hub adapters you were talking about. My idea was to use the 7/16" X 3" bolts and stack a bunch of flat washers between the rims and hubs but thought this might put too much pressure on bolts and they break.

My daughter and I are tickled to death to get this thing running again. I seldom give up on anything. There is always some way to fix something.

FLASHLIGHTBOY · 05-24-2017, 08:43 PM

Ebay iten number...........170463636862

FLASHLIGHTBOY · 05-24-2017, 08:46 PM

170463636862...........

05-12-2017, 11:35 AM	#16
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Bruce is a real gentleman! __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	2

05-20-2017, 07:57 PM	#22
turbofiat124 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Kingsport, TN Posts: 108	Thanks Bruce. I really appreciate it. Today I mounted the axle assembly to the bike. First thing. I couldn't get the top bolt (brake caliper side) to go through the swing arm. Some investigating showed the weld on the carrier section was interfering so I removed just enough metal. Now all four bolts slide right in. Axle assembly now mounted: Sprockets align: Check Chain is the same size: Check Brake caliper mounting holes align with mounts on axle assembly: Check I had to use some longer bolts due to the design difference. Only issue now is the wheels. The replacement axle is a bit shorter (like 2"). That's probably not a big deal considering the front wheels stuck out wider than the rears to begin with. I think I can turn the rear wheels inside out to make them stick out a bit further. The only issue to sort out is the bolt pattern. The replacement axle uses 13mm axle nuts. The original axle used 16mm axle nuts. The hubs that fit this axle use a 3 bolt pattern and my wheels uses a 4 bolt pattern. So I got a couple of options. 1) I can try to make my own hub adapter/wheel spacer to go between the 13mm hubs and my wheels but I seriously doubt I could get it spot on, otherwise the rear wheels would wobble like crazy. 2) Pay a machine shop to make me a couple of hub adapters (big bucks) 3) Find some 13 mm ID hubs that will with a 4 bolt pattern 4) Find some rims/tires to fit with a 3 bolt pattern The tire size is 16X8-7. Sellers on Ebay says this is a 7" wheel but I measured 8". So far here are some wheels/tires that might work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/16x8-7-200-5...VWTTha&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/145-70-6-Tir...3D151435240388 http://www.ebay.com/itm/16x8-7-Wheel...3D151435240388 Just a quick search on Ebay seems to suggest I will have better luck at finding new wheels/tires with a 3 bolt pattern than 13mm hubs with a four bolt pattern. However I just remembered that Snapper riding mowers use a rear 3 bolt pattern and the wheels and tires are roughly the same size. Some investigation shows 77mm is roughly 3" apart. Snapper bolt pattern is 3.5" apart. I just so happen to have 2 disabled Snapper riding mowers. Maybe with a little work I can mount some Snapper wheels on this ATV. So I've gotten off to a good start. My daughter is getting excited to see her ATV running again. __________________ http://s222.photobucket.com/user/tur...?sort=2&page=0 Last edited by turbofiat124; 05-21-2017 at 08:14 AM.
	3

05-23-2017, 07:13 AM	#23
turbofiat124 Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Kingsport, TN Posts: 108	Well here's the latest. I pulled the wheels off my old Snapper and bolted them to the rear hubs. The tires at least are pretty much the same size as the original ones! I couldn't get the Allen head bolts from the original rear wheels to screw into the hubs. I'm not sure if the size is different but kind of looks like the threads maybe stripped out a bit. I think they are M10. I found some M8 in my box of Fiat/Yugo fasteners and used nuts on the backside of the wheels but they soon worked loose and wobbled. No worries. The plan now is to drill and tap out of the holes in the hubs for the next size up which is 7/16". So that way I'm not dependent on using nuts on the backside of the rims. Then LockTite the bolts in place. Hopefully the the 3.25" X 3 bolt pattern being a bit larger and the holes in the wheels being 1" OD will hold once I use some larger flat washers. No reason paying out of the nose for metric bolts when I can go to Tractor Supply and buy what I need for a couple of bucks. That's the plan now. The other idea is to come up with a template and cross drill the holes in the wheels for the 3" X 3 bolt pattern in 7/16". I'm thinking if I use longer bolts and stack some flat washers between the wheels and hubs should space them out about 2 to 3" to where they are the same width as the fronts to make it more stable. I'm not sure if this would put any extra stress on the axle or the bolts themselves. I'm going to paint the wheels silver and reinstall the rubber hub/nut covers. I just wanted to see for now if this was going to work. As long as I can keep the wheel bolts from working loose I think this is going to work. __________________ http://s222.photobucket.com/user/tur...?sort=2&page=0
	2

05-23-2017, 10:20 PM	#27
FLASHLIGHTBOY Join Date: May 2009 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,161	rims Hello... the rims that are the 77 mm is for the taotao .. and the other one is for the GIO.. atv.. I do not know what hubs you have,, spline size... but you can buy some wheel adapter to put on your hubs to the rims to move the rear wheels out further.. see ebay.. I posted it here once before.. they are just longer studs to move everything out... cheaper than the wheel adapters.. I have some hubs but do kow your splines size to fit....... so you are wanting a 4 bolt hub for the rims that you have .??? for a 16 inch wheel??? ok.. let us know ... maybe some in the storage pile.. __________________ DEALER FOR ZSTAR & GIO PRODUCTS, TAOTAO ABIBABA ATV ETC
	0

05-24-2017, 08:43 PM	#29
FLASHLIGHTBOY Join Date: May 2009 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,161	Wheel adapters on ebay Ebay iten number...........170463636862 __________________ DEALER FOR ZSTAR & GIO PRODUCTS, TAOTAO ABIBABA ATV ETC
	0

05-12-2017, 04:17 PM	#17
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	I just have way too many bikes ,and way too many parts ,I don't have storage for everything ,and I really have to make some room .
	2

05-17-2017, 07:23 AM	#19
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	I figured I should send everything in case the dimensions are wrong ,I was sending the wheels and tires as well but the tires were really bad . Do not worry about the shipping ,it was my treat and hopefully it will get your daughters bike up and running again . Bruce.
	4

05-17-2017, 03:00 PM	#21
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	Please don't worry about it ,just get the bike back together and enjoy it .
	4

05-23-2017, 08:01 AM	#24
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	The wheels I took off of that axle ,had bolts and nuts holding them on .
	0

05-23-2017, 01:16 PM	#26
Bruce's Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sudbury ,Ontario Posts: 855	That is from a Gio quad ,some like them a lot ,some have no luck with them ,but it's mainly stuff the owner didn't pdi correctly .A lot of their bigger quads have rear swing arm issues ,manufactured crooked so the chains fly off them all the time ,and the front shocks are not so good .Flashlightboy is a dealer for them so if you need anything he can help ,although I find them every single day so finding used parts is easy for me . As for the wheel bolts ,they had a big shoulder on them like a sprocket bolt ,going to a tractor supply bolt is fine ,especially the weeks they are on for half price .We have only had a local tractor supply for 2 years ,but it's one of my favourite stores for various stuff .If you know one of the guys working there ,they have a program that you can have their store discount 20% ,if you are their friend .
	0

05-24-2017, 08:46 PM	#30
FLASHLIGHTBOY Join Date: May 2009 Location: SASKATOON Posts: 1,161	Adapters pic 170463636862........... Attached Images __________________ DEALER FOR ZSTAR & GIO PRODUCTS, TAOTAO ABIBABA ATV ETC
	0