Beast arrived Oct 07

[PCD]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Does it still need that much warm-up time, even with the Monster pipe?

Once you get the Uni installed, hopefully the stumble will disappear. If not, I'd close the air / fuel screw by 1/4 turn and try again (with it fully warmed up). It sounds like too much fuel in the transition to the main circuit.

I always wanted to build a 427; Smokey said that long rods are the way to go, and the rod / stroke ratio is theoretically perfect at 1.75:1. I agree that a 650 would have likely solved the stumble; that or a leaner set of jets. The truth is that a 327 can't gobble 750cfm anyway.

Are you saying that your Beast keeps going? Do you attribute the racing CDI to that?

Which 427? A side oiler or chebby? Both were sweet. Very sweet.

I heard they compiled all his stuff into a multiple CD set...love to get it. Not sure on the long rods but I would say that would force a re balance for certain.
You have any idea what those heads cost me?? It "almost" handled it, but not quite. Now of course you can buy em off the shelf and they flow 30% more than anything that could be done by hand 30yrs ago.

On the beast, Im saying I break down before the beasts spark starts breaking up, or it goes into fuel starvation. Gets too scary.
If I kept going I would expect spark to crap out first OR the motor would grenade.
I dont think I've hit the fall off point of the cam yet and I know what that feels like cause I've done it in lower gears.

[PCD]

Originally Posted by TurboT

It was a matter of time before the chain guard broke off, those things are flimsy, but mine are off already and I have little kids who know nothing of abusing powersports products yet.

Sounds cool in the driveway. Hope you had your lid on. Funny how you mention worry of the motor blowing.. I've never been too concerned with the motors, but feel the frame is going to rattle apart before the motor sends the piston into your nuts.

I have 27lbs of fiberglass resin protecting my nuts thats holding the seat together (thanks gio!), but yeah

Gawd, try putting that storage case on the back...the handle, the bloody handle makes your machine sound like a coffee can full of screws driving past.

Yes, bucket on (harder to identify). "Man killed by Chinese ATV" would look pretty shoddy in the paper I think, although since I expect it to spontaniously burst into flames at any moment anyway, I could save on the cremation.

Great post, thanks

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by PCD

Which 427? A side oiler or chebby? Both were sweet. Very sweet.

I heard they compiled all his stuff into a multiple CD set...love to get it. Not sure on the long rods but I would say that would force a re balance for certain.
You have any idea what those heads cost me?? It "almost" handled it, but not quite. Now of course you can buy em off the shelf and they flow 30% more than anything that could be done by hand 30yrs ago.

On the beast, Im saying I break down before the beasts spark starts breaking up, or it goes into fuel starvation. Gets too scary.
If I kept going I would expect spark to crap out first OR the motor would grenade.
I dont think I've hit the fall off point of the cam yet and I know what that feels like cause I've done it in lower gears.

Sorry. Slip of the digits. I meant 327.

I didn't know about Smokey's stuff on CD, but I have Power Secrets. Excellent read. He claimed (as has Hot Rod and Car Craft) that a longer rod created a longer dwell time at TDC, thereby maximizing on the available compression. Fascinating. The only part that freaks me out is shoving the wrist pin up into the oil scraper. I think that a long rod anything should only be built with a tall deck, so as to not compromise piston longevity.

I figure that Vortecs could out-flow the old 2.02 heads, including camel humps. Heck, they even outflow the Bow Tie 23 degree heads from the performance catalogue a few years back. The limitation to stock Vortecs is lift, but that can be overcome by machining the guides down a bit.

Good to hear that your Beast is fast enough to be scary. I'd bet that the valves are floating before it starves for fuel with the Mikuni. I also can't imagine the spark dying with the racing CDI before the valves lose control.

All I meant by the 750cfm comment is that a 327 can't consume 750cfm mathematically. Doesn't mean it won't run strong. 8)

[PCD]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Sorry. Slip of the digits. I meant 327.

I didn't know about Smokey's stuff on CD, but I have Power Secrets. Excellent read. He claimed (as has Hot Rod and Car Craft) that a longer rod created a longer dwell time at TDC, thereby maximizing on the available compression. Fascinating. The only part that freaks me out is shoving the wrist pin up into the oil scraper. I think that a long rod anything should only be built with a tall deck, so as to not compromise piston longevity.

I figure that Vortecs could out-flow the old 2.02 heads, including camel humps. Heck, they even outflow the Bow Tie 23 degree heads from the performance catalogue a few years back. The limitation to stock Vortecs is lift, but that can be overcome by machining the guides down a bit.

Good to hear that your Beast is fast enough to be scary. I'd bet that the valves are floating before it starves for fuel with the Mikuni. I also can't imagine the spark dying with the racing CDI before the valves lose control.

All I meant by the 750cfm comment is that a 327 can't consume 750cfm mathematically. Doesn't mean it won't run strong. 8)

Yes, float sounds VERY possible before anything else happened. Feels just like spark breakdown or a bad plug if you over rev it in first which runs out very very quickly for me.
Could probably put some stiffer valve springs in (Walmart sells mini slinkys) but then a keeper or something would break no doubt.

I'm trying to cover with humor because I never thought of it

Math? Meh..dont confuse me with the facts Bumbblebees can fly and the Titanic sank (Leo drowned really, really well though). I had to swim like a Salmon going upstream out of the movies that night there were so many teenage tears flowing down the isle.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Sorry. Slip of the digits. I meant 327.

I didn't know about Smokey's stuff on CD, but I have Power Secrets. Excellent read. He claimed (as has Hot Rod and Car Craft) that a longer rod created a longer dwell time at TDC, thereby maximizing on the available compression. Fascinating. The only part that freaks me out is shoving the wrist pin up into the oil scraper. I think that a long rod anything should only be built with a tall deck, so as to not compromise piston longevity.

I figure that Vortecs could out-flow the old 2.02 heads, including camel humps. Heck, they even outflow the Bow Tie 23 degree heads from the performance catalogue a few years back. The limitation to stock Vortecs is lift, but that can be overcome by machining the guides down a bit.

Good to hear that your Beast is fast enough to be scary. I'd bet that the valves are floating before it starves for fuel with the Mikuni. I also can't imagine the spark dying with the racing CDI before the valves lose control.

All I meant by the 750cfm comment is that a 327 can't consume 750cfm mathematically. Doesn't mean it won't run strong. 8)

By golly I feel like I'm back in my old shop talking about 2.02's and camel humpers. Sheesh, can we talk about quads now?? :P

Stiffer springs with these little valves and keepers? Yikes, I value my fingers more..

[PCD]

Well, I had a Cyclone Spoiler and I'd give me left nut to have that back....

Sorry...hows the beast run with the Mikuni on it? Any chance of a pic of the UNI so I can see exactly how mine isnt going to fit?

EDIT: When mine blows up I'll spoof my IP and order a black 250 Zongshen from the guy. Think he quoted me 200 once (before he got to know me). Looks identical except WAAAY cooler cause its black. Oh, maybe a smidgen more TQ as well because of displacement. Who knows really.

Pete

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by PCD

Well, I had a Cyclone Spoiler and I'd give me left nut to have that back....

Sorry...hows the beast run with the Mikuni on it? Any chance of a pic of the UNI so I can see exactly how mine isnt going to fit?

EDIT: When mine blows up I'll spoof my IP and order a black 250 Zongshen from the guy. Think he quoted me 200 once (before he got to know me). Looks identical except WAAAY cooler cause its black. Oh, maybe a smidgen more TQ as well because of displacement. Who knows really.

Pete

Left the Beast at W&G's since we had a bad tire and his tire man friend was going to try to repair it at his shop sometime during the week, so I had no back wheels to roll it back into the truck and home. That doesn't seem like a good sentance but you get the jist of it I'm sure.

To be honest, it took us quite some time to get the thing to run with the Mikuni. We think there was a hunk of shit blocking the fuel flow somewhere, ended up messing around a lot, then finally taking the carb off and took it all apart to blow air through all the passages. When we put it back on it finally fired up. This was at end of day today so not a lot of time to play with it, plus with no back wheels couldn't take it for a burn up his steet.

There is a still a racing idle problem, W&G thinks it's the throttle cable routing, that it's not relaxed enough in it's current path. We'll need to re-route it. (I have a feeling WE won't happen, as now as it's sitting over there I don't think D's going to be able to control himself to leave it alone)

We did carve out a bit of an arc in the plastic to allow the UNI more room. Perhaps W&G can snap a photo for you.

[PCD]

Originally Posted by TurboT

Left the Beast at W&G's since we had a bad tire and his tire man friend was going to try to repair it at his shop sometime during the week, so I had no back wheels to roll it back into the truck and home. That doesn't seem like a good sentance but you get the jist of it I'm sure.

To be honest, it took us quite some time to get the thing to run with the Mikuni. We think there was a hunk of sh-- blocking the fuel flow somewhere, ended up messing around a lot, then finally taking the carb off and took it all apart to blow air through all the passages. When we put it back on it finally fired up. This was at end of day today so not a lot of time to play with it, plus with no back wheels couldn't take it for a burn up his steet.

There is a still a racing idle problem, W&G thinks it's the throttle cable routing, that it's not relaxed enough in it's current path. We'll need to re-route it. (I have a feeling WE won't happen, as now as it's sitting over there I don't think D's going to be able to control himself to leave it alone)

We did carve out a bit of an arc in the plastic to allow the UNI more room. Perhaps W&G can snap a photo for you.

Yes, got it.
Its funny how often I've read about just taking the thing apart, putting it back together and it works. In any case, glad it did.

Speaking of the cable, one thing that maybe got overlooked (doubt it, but still..) is the cable adjuster cranked all the way down? (up actually). I can get my beast to idle at 3 grand if I adjust that thing all the way.

With my batt size & box I am slowly accepting the fact that I need to section my intake tube. We have a pretty good welder and he can do aluminum. It'll be a case of beer, but I may have no choice.

Found my rear wheels loose today. Cotter pin was holding the castle nut on. They got tightened with a 1/2" drive this time

Looks like you 2 will be riding by next weekend, good stuff!

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by PCD

Yes, got it.
Its funny how often I've read about just taking the thing apart, putting it back together and it works. In any case, glad it did.

Speaking of the cable, one thing that maybe got overlooked (doubt it, but still..) is the cable adjuster cranked all the way down? (up actually). I can get my beast to idle at 3 grand if I adjust that thing all the way.

With my batt size & box I am slowly accepting the fact that I need to section my intake tube. We have a pretty good welder and he can do aluminum. It'll be a case of beer, but I may have no choice.

Found my rear wheels loose today. Cotter pin was holding the castle nut on. They got tightened with a 1/2" drive this time

Looks like you 2 will be riding by next weekend, good stuff!

I'd love to hear more about the Spoiler.

Was the black 250 Zong intended for the Bad Boy atv? If it was intended for a dirt bike, then you'd lose reverse. Only an inconvenience I know, but I'd miss it. Maybe a hybrid is in order, using the big bore cylinder on the 200 bottom end.

This was at end of day today so not a lot of time to play with it, plus with no back wheels couldn't take it for a burn up his steet.

Thank goodness. My neighbours are finally talking to me again; don't want to screw that up.

The cable adjuster is something I'll examine again, but the bike will idle ok. When you blip the throttle, it takes about three seconds for the idle to come back to Earth. I remember a similar problem with my Beast, prompting me to route the cable to the right of the tank with a more gentle radius.

If you need to section the intake, consider correcting the weird offset. If you look at it from the top, it points off towards the exhaust. If you view it from the side, it's angled uphill and not even close to level. I realize that the manifold needs to climb up to the carb, but there seems to be no reason that the carb can't be level.

I tighten the rear wheel castle nuts until there's no play between the wheel and the axle. They've remained tight in that position, with a little help from the cotter pin.

[PCD]

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I'd love to hear more about the Spoiler.

Was the black 250 Zong intended for the Bad Boy atv? If it was intended for a dirt bike, then you'd lose reverse. Only an inconvenience I know, but I'd miss it. Maybe a hybrid is in order, using the big bore cylinder on the 200 bottom end.

Thank goodness. My neighbours are finally talking to me again; don't want to screw that up.

The cable adjuster is something I'll examine again, but the bike will idle ok. When you blip the throttle, it takes about three seconds for the idle to come back to Earth. I remember a similar problem with my Beast, prompting me to route the cable to the right of the tank with a more gentle radius.

If you need to section the intake, consider correcting the weird offset. If you look at it from the top, it points off towards the exhaust. If you view it from the side, it's angled uphill and not even close to level. I realize that the manifold needs to climb up to the carb, but there seems to be no reason that the carb can't be level.

I tighten the rear wheel castle nuts until there's no play between the wheel and the axle. They've remained tight in that position, with a little help from the cotter pin.

429 SCJ 4spd..the SCJ was an option on the CJ, tell you about it sometime...

I had them snug before, but with this level of material/workmanship I'm always very aware of A>snapping or stripping something B>breaking my knuckles or fingers yet again when the bolt head twists off for example.

That intake is really weird eh? Just finding a point to section it at will be fun, but thats a last resort. I have to have a real good look-see first.

[Weldangrind]

If you tighten the rear wheel castle nuts to the point where there's no play, yet the castle nut won't line up with the hole, shim the nut with a washer. Worked like a charm for me.

That precludes you from putting 100 Pete Pounds into it.

[Weldangrind]

Originally Posted by PCD

Sorry...hows the beast run with the Mikuni on it? Any chance of a pic of the UNI so I can see exactly how mine isnt going to fit?

Here you go, Pete. Sorry the top view is a bit fuzzy.





I'll be able to let you know how it runs after I re-route the throttle cable and try out the new exhaust in the "Fun with TurboT's Gio Beast" thread.

[PCD]

Ah, thank you.

I am moving the battery, it's the path of least resistance. I have a good idea too

So you guys held out on me with that pipe I see...dangle the Monster idea and see if Pete bites....check it out, then go one better huh?

Will go have a closer look at that pip sq.., er, pit bike pipe later.

Thanks again for the pic

[Weldangrind]

Are we that transparent?

[PCD]

Saran wrap's got nutthin on you two boys