Modifications made to my new Viva VX200SX!

[pumpkin]

i agree ,but they are not all bad one time i needed a bolt and the bag was ripped they said we have no way to price single bolts so you can have it . i guess you win some and you lose some.

[SamM]

pumpkin is right. They'll sell you anything you want, IF you buy 50 or 100 count bags of them. We live in a rapidly developing area and they have all the business they can handle just dealing with local contractors. They have no time for us little guys. They'll practically tell you that when you walk in the door. When I was there looking for the swingarm bolt, the guy I talked to was from another store in another town. He told me someone would get back with me. Never happened! No call back at all. I was going to buy 100 of those but they told me I could get just one. Go figure! These people are not good businessmen or even good counter people.

I used one of pumpkin's lines on them when I said, "This would be a good place to open a parts store!" They didn't get it! How hard would it be to open a 100 count bag of bolts and put them in a bin marked what they are? I don't get it.

We have plenty of metric tools new2riding, that's not the problem.

frostbite, I have one of those bolt measuring tools in my toolbox from Fastenal. When I was building American bikes I had no problems finding bolts at Fastenal and they were more than willing to open a package and basically give me whatever I needed. I always offered to pay but they said it would be more trouble than just giving it to me. I'd buy all my tools and supplies from them to make up the difference on the bolt they gave me. Metric seems to be a real problem for them. I guess I need to go down there and purchase a catalog and just order everything I need from the main warehouse or something.

Thanks for the links and the help everyone. As I said before I will have plenty of time this winter to redo the rear suspension linkage and I'll use the R1 shock on this bike then. This cobbed up mount just gets me riding for now. I wanna ride!

[TeamCheap]

I had thought about making up BOLT kits for these bikes.
Just buy bulk sort and label and hang on to them but sooner or later someone will need a bolt kit.

But then there are actually bolt kits out there for other bikes/atv's and stuff so it's not really that difficult.

[SamM]

My Viva VX200SX has been a work in progress, since I purchased it in late March. If you have followed red2003's thread, this thread or if you own a Viva you will know about the Viva's poor rear suspension. I recently took red2003's advice and pulled my rear shock after rebuilding my rear linkage. He was right the linkage was binding on the upswing of the swingarm. It would have destroyed itself in short order. The link is not proportioned properly and causes major binding. This was unacceptable to me. What I came up with and what I always wanted to do was eliminate the linkage completely. Progressive linkage makes more wheel travel possible with a short throw shock. My VX200SX will be used mainly as just a commuter bike. I have no off-road asperations for it. I already have an off-road bike. That's not to say that I'll never take it off-road though. 4 to 5" is all the rear suspension travel I need or want.

The next few pictures show what I decided to do. Yesterday, after pumpkin and I finished our ride, I got after it. pumpkin, thanks for coming up and getting me away for awhile. I needed the distraction to get my head clear! My main thought was to increase the angle of the shock but the swingarm brace was in the wrong position. The fix was to completely remove the brace. I cut it from the swingarm after welding a piece of steel to the rear to keep everything inline. A 1998 Buell S1W sacrificed it's swingarm for the betterment of the Viva. A section of the Buell swingarm was cut out and pieced into the Viva swingarm, only much further back. Yes, my welds look like crap but they are just as good as the stock welds. It isn't going anywhere. I'm still learning to MIG. I left plenty of room for the bottom bolt to be moved back. The shock can be adjusted for sag and the firmness of ride. I didn't get to the top mount but it's fairly straight forward. Just two pieces of steel welded to the new frame stiffener that I will weld in where the shock mount used to be. Everything will be tacked and then removed for welding.

I'm not sure that I have left enough room for my battery relocation but I'll worry about that later. Overall, it has been a lot of work removing the brace and fabbing a new one. A steady hand with an angle grinder is a must. I slipped a couple of times and cut the swingarm and these places had to be welded up. I also slipped while I was cutting out the top shock mount and cut into my exhaust pipe. It barely went through, so hopefully I can weld it up easily with a series of tack welds. It's pretty thin stuff.

The shock angle will be greater than the picture shows! It will sit closer to the mount at the top and closer to the swingarm at the bottom. I'll drill a new hole closer to the swingarm and possibly cut the mount down more. The swingarm mount will also be braced at the rear and bottom.

Post your comments! I don't mind the critizism because you may see something I didn't think of. I won't be changing it again though!







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[SamM]

Just to clarify! Here are both before and after pictures. You can see how much the brace was moved back. The rear most marks on the swingarm show where the tire will be located. I wanted to leave enough room there for muddy tires. As I said, I have plenty of room to move the shock back at the bottom shock mount. This first position was just giving me a reference point. I made the mount long for that reason. It will need to be cut for the bottom clicker.

Before


After

[red2003]

Hey Sam,

I am at work and can't see the pics (blocked :( ), but it sounds like you're on the right track. I will check out the pics as soon as I get home. This will be a nice contrasting mod to what I did, and may open up some other options for folks. For sure the stock rear suspension HAS TO GO. It's just reduiculous how messed up it is. Anyway, it sounds like you got a winner there and doing away with the scissor all together might be the ticket for a commuter bike, and it's certainly less complicated then what I did. Can't wait to get home to see the pics! BTW, what shock are you gonna use? The R1??

[SamM]

Yes, the R1 shock is on the bike. I'm on my way to the shop now to start fabbing the top mount. I'm also going to move the shock closer to the swingarm brace. I left the mount long so I could do that if I needed to.

I also need to cut the linkage mount off the frame. No reason for it anymore!

[red2003]

Like I said, I can't see the pics, but since you have the extra material on the lower shock mount how about making several holes in a radius to the shock swing so you can change overall spring rate / dampening rate / wheel travel "on the fly". Rearward position = stiffer for onroad/ less wheel travel, pull over swap to another hole foreward for a softer ride and more suspension travel?? Just a thought.

[SamM]

Good idea red2003! I've already cut the mount and modified it. The shock would have been too high the way the mount was. Great idea though.

After I cut the shock mount and clearanced it for the shock clicker, it was perfect. I can now adjust the rear ride height with a spanner wrench. I need to get one of those. I also need instructions for the R1 shock.

Here are the pictures of the finished fabrication. Well, almost finished. I still need to weld everything up. It's all downhill from here. After I get off work Friday morning, I'll get it welded and ready to roll then.

[shammash55]

ill prolly end up copying these picts and geting a welding shop to fix mine like that(since i dont have a welder:( ) that looks like it will work great.

[TheOtherRide]

So if I understand this correctly, you now have a static linkage? I can see where that makes more sense than the original poor design. Are you going to beef up the lower shock mount? Seems like there would be a LOT of stress on the tab weld there. Just curious to see how this works.

[TeamCheap]

At first you'd think cutting up and removing then adding metal to these frames would weaken them.
But then knowing the metal used on these frames must be the same stuff used by "The Amazing Kreskin" to do his spoon bending demonstrations I guess adding steel to these can only strengthen them.

I may have to do a rear shock mod on mine at some point also.
I'd have cut up an extra swing arm or least know where to get a replacement just to play it safe but thats just me.


We were going to go for a ride on our bikes the other day but I noticed a bolt missing from the wifes bikes (lower-rear engine bolt TOTALLY GONE-YIKES)

[SamM]

Posted by: TheOtherRide
So if I understand this correctly, you now have a static linkage? I can see where that makes more sense than the original poor design. Are you going to beef up the lower shock mount? Seems like there would be a LOT of stress on the tab weld there. Just curious to see how this works.

Not exactly!

Statics is the branch of physics concerned with the analysis of loads (force, torque/moment) on physical systems in static equilibrium, that is, in a state where the relative positions of subsystems do not vary over time, or where components and structures are at rest under the action of external forces of equilibrium. When in static equilibrium, the system is either at rest, or moving at constant velocity through its center of mass.

By Newton's second law, this situation implies that the net force and net torque (also known as moment) on every body in the system is zero, meaning that for every force bearing upon a member, there must be an equal and opposite force. From this constraint, such quantities as stress or pressure can be derived. The net forces equalling zero is known as the first condition for equilibrium, and the net torque equalling zero is known as the second condition for equilibrium.

Meaning there would be no force in either direction just stress and pressure. Every force on the system is not zero. Sitting on the bike and even the force of gravity puts force on the system.

Pauli, please don't think I'm getting smart with you! Just trying to explain my reasoning! Be patient this is long!

Basically, I have just removed the linkage. I understand what you were asking and that's one big explanation of statics that I posted above. By increasing the angle of the shock, I just limited the movement needed. That's exactly what progressive linkage does, it limits the movement needed. It makes a short throw shock work in a long travel suspension. Through leverage, less movement is needed because the distances toward the end of the lever (swingarm bolt) are less than at the opposite end of the lever (axle bolt or rear wheel & tire). As the swingarm moves through it's arc, the linkage levers up and into the shock, compressing it. The movement and travel needed from the shock is much less depending on the design of the linkage. I did the same thing by increasing the angle of the shock. As the shock swings through the arc on the bottom tab, the idea is to keep the shock at the same angle throughout that arc. As it levers up it just compresses the shock, but stays at the same angle. Less movement is needed because the distances are shorter. I'm not sure if I have actually got this right yet! I'll have to see how it works! Different dirtbikes use this system to great effect. KTM and Husaberg come to mind. The Big 4 dirtbikes all use linkage suspensions. Why wouldn't they? More parts to wear out and sell to consumers! If I was designing I bike that I had to replace the parts on, hint: I AM, I'd go with something less complicated. Obviously, this is less complicated and there is no linkage to worry about. If the Viva linkage would have been designed properly, like other bikes, it would have worked fine. But what happens when it wears out? Where will we get the parts to fix it? I couldn't come up with any good answers for those two questions, so I eliminated the problem! These bikes are all very similar but there seems to be differences in the mounting points and component lengths. The American Lifan linkage is almost identical to the Viva, some of the components appear to even be the same, and it workes perfectly. Slight changes in the mounts and a different (read: bad) shock are probably the reason the Viva suspension doesn't work. Even my 220 lbs. could barely move my rear shock, after I moved the dogbone back and fixed the binding issue. I even jumped up and down on it and total movement I could get was about 1 inch. That was after making the shock as soft as possible. I suspect that the shock is very poorly constructed! The point of no return for me, was when red2003 suggested that I remove the shock and try to move the swingarm up. It moved up 3 inches, maybe and was locked solid. Exactly like he said it would! Wow, I was floored!

My suggestion, is to remove the rear suspension on the Jialing Viva VX200SX and replace it with whatever you can. red2003 did a very good job making that linkage work! My hat is off to him for that. I actually took the easy way out by removing the linkage completely.

Pauli, you are right! There is a great deal of stress on that lower shock mount and even the upper for that matter. I'll probably take it and have it professionally welded by a gentleman I go to church with. The lower mount is flush with the back of the new brace that I built for the swingarm. A piece of flat steel will run up the back of the mount, strengthening it and up the back of the swingarm, giving it more support and strength. I may box the bottom too!

Sorry, for the very long post!

[TheOtherRide]

LOL, I took statics and dynamics, too...I know an FBD from a BFD... :wink:

You answered my question, at any rate. Relative to the swingarm, the lower shock mount IS static, unless it breaks off. I should have asked my question in a better way! ...but now let's go into the philosophy of why; I have this great book on Zen....hehehehe

Hugs!

[red2003]

Hey Sam,

That looks pretty damn good. I think you'll be much more pleased with the ride now. Pauli, I knew what you meant by "static" . Definately give us a ride report Sam. If it works well, this is a much easier mod than what I did, and should be accesible to most people. The R1 shocks are still pretty cheep on eBay, and what you have done is pretty strait forward to follow. Nice work!!!