YinGang

[Oengus]

What it is as what it is not….

The Yingang YG250-NF has a Honda 250 DOHC 4-valve engine and that engine came in two version a standard NX250 and a AX-1 version the, the later has a performance cam and larger jets.

The YG250-NF also referred to as a YG250-6 made by Yingang has that Honda engine but none of the components that surround the original engine.

It would be impossible to verify which version of cam the engine has, verifying that would require a disassemble of both and then a comparison. I would highly doubt the engine has any alterations internally, simply because of the cost of do any modifications and testing would be prohibitive.

It does not have a copy of the Honda carburetor unless the PZ30 is one, that is very unlikely since its a low cost budget carburetor used on many other Chinese engines. It does not have the Honda air box design either, it actually has a cone filter and that is enclosed by a make shift air box.

The radiator is also make shift and over sized compared to the unit used on the NX or AX-1, the Honda version is narrow and tall and covered with a grill.


<A HREF="http://www.motobuys.com/yinyang-yg250nf-mass.html">The motorcycles is being sold online, it can be purchased for $2,475.00 dropped shipped to your door.
</A>

It is a low cost bike and low quality as well, these do actually go together, for example if you added the Honda carburetor and air box that costs around $750.00, add the Honda radiator another $350.00, the Honda radiator could easily be wrapped in a cowling, so then your at a total cost around $3,575.00 and would have what would be closer to a Honda. If the engine is the AX-1 (performance cam) version then with larger jets you would get 29hp and it should perform near the same as the original AX-1.

However the bikes frame is low quality as the welds are poor and appears to be poorly coated, basically it does not look to be made to last.

The bike has a Honda engine and it is surrounded by basically low cost Chinese components and that is why it cost only $2,475.00 it could be better but then the price goes up. The bike comes off as if engineered in somebody’s garage.

Considering it is all about cost in china and the bike is basically what is typically selling for $1,800.00 plus a better engine that adds $675.00 to its cost. It is a DOHC and with four valves and that is not something anyone can adjust themselves. Its not that simple and easy to adjust the valves on that engine as a SOHC with 2-valves, if you took it to a Honda mechanic they could, however the surrounding quality of it may get you some painful comments and a lack of serious consideration.

It’s all a trade off you could get a perfect bike out of Chinese manufacturing but the price is not going to be that much less then that of a Ninja250 or a Honda 250CBR. Those two models are being manufactured in Thailand and are as low cost as it gets.

The Chinese are not checking and testing, not to high standards, they are cranking out and selling.

The Yingang YG250-6 needs a better inspection of it frames and training of it welders, that frame needed to be coated to prevent it from rusting. The induction and cooling is inferior and would need improving for that bike to be considered as a value leader. Right now it comes off as just another cheaply made motorcycle with a more powerful engine. The motorcycles engine could be tuned by a Honda technician, but they may ridicule it and not applaud it.


LOOKS COOL THOUGH !

[ChinaV]

I have one of these YG250-NF's, and so far, dealing with Yingang is quite pleasant. It's not a cheap piece of crap, it's also not of comparable quality to a Japanese bike. I would put it somewhere in the middle. If you pay $2495, and your looking for a fun little bike to blast around town, you probably won't be disappointed. If you drop your life savings on it, thinking you're getting more value than a good used Japanese machine, you probably will be disappointed. I was looking for an inexpensive bike to get me back and forth to work, I have other motorcycles for dirt riding and adventure touring, so the Yingang will do fine for the 15,000 kilometers of commuting I do every year. It will also save a lot of wear and tear on my other bikes, and the 70MPG fuel consumption won't hurt either.

Maybe some time perusing NX250 / AX-1 forums, and a bit of ingenuity at the local bike salvage yard or eBay, will fix the carb and air-box issues. Any performance info you find on the Shineray X2 will also apply to this motor.



If I wasn't living in China, would I buy this bike? Maybe... that would depend on the level of dealer/distributor support that comes with it, or how good you are at working on bikes. I also wouldn't consider it a good bike for big people. I'm 5'9" 160lbs and it's OK, but larger people would be very cramped.



I can say with some confidence that Yingang in China is much better than many of the other companies here when it comes to certifications and customer service. They seem to be trying hard to get it right.

This is my first post on China Riders... I usually post on the "other" China motorcycle forum, but I do lurk here from time to time so I thought it good to give something back.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[Weldangrind]

Welcome ChinaV! Thanks for chiming in.

I'm intrigued by the engine platform, because I'd like to convert my '96 XR250R to electric start, but I'd like to retain the air-cooled design. So far I haven't found anyone online who has swapped NX stuff onto an old XR.

[Oengus]

There is very little market for drop shipping at that price, the drop ship market has a very low price limit.
That bikes total cost for me would be close to $2,800.00 with sales tax and registration, that’s could be compared to a trip to Europe!

I would say that if any manufacturer sells it products to drop shippers, they have to actually have some form of online support for purchasing parts and also an online shop manual.

Some of the manufactures do not label parts for individual distribution and without that happening in the factory as labeled for individual identification there is no way to manage a distributed inventory for the parts.

The online dealers/distributors are often only a warehouse. They stock few parts and the ones they do are not individually labeled from the factory. That results in people with no relational management skills attempting to implement something they see as rational and that results in something that rarely functional or sustainable.

A good example is that of Qlink and Qingqi, the factory parts book numbers do not match the Qlink part numbers. Think about why that is…all the parts should have a number and the same numbers from the factory line to the final consumer, call that a synergistic model and potentially highly functional and sustainable. Again Qlink does not have that and they do not stock all parts, in some cases they cannot identify part numbers that are actually Qingqi part numbers.

That bike is at a price limit and without the required documentation that is undeniably required to support it.

If I a customer can identify a dealer willing to maintain that bike then a distributor should not require parts that fail to be returned. In fact they should simply make the parts easily available and easily identifiable. They can and should monitor parts consumption and that by requiring a VIN numbers for warranty claims. That same Model VIN should also identify the parts list.

Yingang in China has a real friendly front office, but Yingang USA is not the same company and the online dealer are very questionable.

I like the motorcycle but its defiantly is not supported in the USA.

Consider the rating system , the quality is a "5" and the sales people got a "10" as for support I would rate it at "0".

[Oengus]

Each motorcycle has a set of parts, each one has an inherent value and that represented as a probability. The probability is that of the part failing over a given period of time. When the actual failure occurs then the event effect the probability as a value. Once a system is in place that identifies the events then it is utilized to determine and regulate parts inventories.

Obviously certain items have higher values then other for the probability of an order. Parts that are wear items and then those that are not. Lead times and freight costs are also utilized in such intelligent systems. These are formulas calculate and then in part automate the management.

The key is that of individually labeled parts, the parts list encoded into a vehicle identification number. That one value that is unique and reference a unique set of part numbers for a model.

Quality control also uses the VIN it encodes a production run code, that links to table these are also unique and within that list who and what. If a model is found to have a defect it then can be tracked back to a specific employee on a specific line on a specific day. That signal training or retraining or even terminations. The object is improving quality and identifying were and when breaches in quality standards occur, it also defines the standards and makes them consistent.

I would rather see bonuses offered for higher demonstrated standards then higher production numbers. But the company that achieves both must offer more and attract the best available in order to do so.

If a company claims they are adhering to a international standard of operations “ISO” and advertising it as conforming to ISO 9001 and then selling bikes that have defects…all I can say is paper never refuses ink and sometimes claims or statements are nothing more then a false panacea.

One persons experiences are not that reflective of overall quality, the bikes are hand made and in that without due processes and diligence the ranges in quality can and will be wide.

What to do?

I have to laugh they have such a huge domestic market and within that should be enough to support a lower unit sales count and at a marginally higher prices, but they need higher quality and accountability. The accountability is in seeing it and not hiding it, its in addressing its not about avoiding it.

That’s what could be propagated behind MY YINGANG a dashboard that accesses a system that keeps track of everything. Based on the use of codes…
http://www.yingangmotor.com/user/login.aspx

[ChinaV]

Thanks for the welcome Weldangrind, I don't know if anything from this motor could be swapped. Judging by the way it performs compared to my QingQi and Galaxy air cooled motors, I think you are wise to stay with the air cooled design...they seem to have more low-end grunt.

Oengus, the Chinese motorcycle industry is at least a decade away from the king of traceability and accountability you envision. I'm in these factories all the time, and very few follow ISO/TSA protocols...yet they all have the certificates hanging on the wall

Cheers!
ChinaV

[Oengus]

I noticed the YG250-6 has the large brake reservoir on the handle bars, I’ve seen that on the Jinlun JL250-P which looks to like the typical kind of Chinese sports bike that the YG250-6 shares parts with, that being they all use basically the same parts. But in some photos the bikes have the larger brake fluid reservoir and then in some photos they do not? Makes me wonder how consistent these manufacturers are, wonder if they change out parts often based on price and availability?







Jinlun Cixi Kinring Motorcycle Co, LTD

[Oengus]

ISO are not regulations they are standard of operating at, they can define how anyway they wish. It began with a standard at 9000 and since has progressed to standards that are much higher. Without data and without any use of coding they will never move up in standards.

It is multifaceted and in that it addresses functions every manufacturing entity have differentiated functions that are all relational, in that they affect each other.

Not documenting parts as sets and associating them with a tracking method is avoidance of what is rudimentary. That’s what is referred to as root cause analysis If a set of characters are associated with a specific, as in consistent, set of parts then finding parts becomes much simpler.

Each time a production run takes place then all of those units would share a set of parts and that would be reflected in a set of characters within a unit vehicles identification number. That one set of characters with the VIN would point to a specific and consistent list of part numbers. If the parts change at all in subsequent production runs, even if only one part, then the new set of characters with the VIN points to a new subsequent parts lists. That is nothing more then pulling up the initial parts list making a change to it then saving it with a new name. The first production run still references the first part list, then the subsequent run associates with the subsequent new list.

Then entering a VIN would point to a accurate list of parts consistently.

Each part should have a data sheets, who made it and also stocking location codes and also feed back metrics as for quality control. That alimenting of the data could take time, but setting up a rudimentary system takes months not decades.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by ChinaV

I have one of these YG250-NF's, and so far, dealing with Yingang is quite pleasant...

This is my first post on China Riders... I usually post on the "other" China motorcycle forum, but I do lurk here from time to time so I thought it good to give something back.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Welcome to these forums, ChinaV! Thank you for contributing your informative post.

Spud

[Oengus]

That frame was utilized by Lifan at one time in a model they called a LF200-B. I read that they stopped production after the factory that made them was destroyed in an earthquake. They no longer offer them but they are still available for sale in the USA.



Those seem to have a different cradle for the engine, but then they only support a 200cc engine.
<a href="http://www.endlessjourneycycles.net/ejc_american_lifan.html">Local dealer has four 2008 LF200B in stock? But then the site has not been updated since July of 2009?
</a>

I’d say that Yingang had a very good idea, but the bike comes off as a poor implementation of that idea.
With its 3.34 final drive ratio it is an anomaly for a street bike and it could be due to its off the shelf induction that being the PZ30 carburetor? You would think it would be strung out in first and second with that gearing, but the owner says no and its the exact opposite. It's basically a different scenario for the end user to tune that motorcycle, that being it does not have to meet emissions for the end user. To me that has to do with not only induction it also has to do with setting the timing as well. The CDI used is not adjustable only replaceable. So that’s basically revisiting what the “engineer” could not do in the first place. It has the HP but it all at the higher end, they raised the ratio to pull it down to the midrange? Again the results a bizarre anomaly they satisfied with a midrange power band.