Vader/Condor 150, best engine upgrade?

[ProDigit]

I initially bought the Vader 150, because I needed more power than what my roketa MC05 127 could offer (125cc pushrod).

I like the pushrod engines, they have a lot of torque, but not a lot of top end.

The Vader 150 has a much higher rev range than the roketa MC05 127, but in some way it's still limited. It's not an actual 150cc, but closer to a 138cc.

I was wondering if there are actual 150-200cc replacement engines for this bike? I know there's a 250cc replacement engine, but that's a bit too much for me on this bike.
I'd prefer maybe like a 190cc, like on the Vader 125 upgrade, but prefer plug and play, bolt on replacements, where I don't need to manufacture any mounts or any unusual electrical mods.

Which ones are the best engines?

[XLsior]

The condor 150 is a vertical engine. looking at the front frame mount it appears it could even be modified to fit a counterbalanced engine.


New crate 200cc are pretty much non existent other than a used donor.



I feel manafactures do a production run untill the tooling is out of tolerance and then rejig for the next higher displacment to same on production costs...


Engines are starting to show up as 300cc or more. 250cc seems in good supply.


The 150cc engines might be the current lower displacement run...


any non counter balanced vertical engine type from a 163FMM to the 172FMM or perhaps even the recent 300cc 175FMM will more than likely fit into the factory engine bolt pattern.


If you can find a 200cc engine which would likly be a 165 or 167FMM/FMN.


not sure if Walmart still sells CG250 crate engines...but they were pretty cheap at the time.

[ProDigit]

They sell 250s for $460.
Looks like a different engine, and not for me. I probably will need to manufacture engine mounts etc...
I don't have a shop or garage with heavy tools like CNC, lathe, welding equipment etc... Just a small front yard, and if I'm lucky, my 120v portable welder won't blow the fuse.

I'd be lucky if I can find a 163/165 engine in good condition.
The smallest one.
Seems like the perfect compromise between acceleration and fuel mileage. Don't care too much about top speed, as the 138cc does a solid 60, and 5-15mph faster if the conditions are right.

[XLsior]

[ProDigit]

It's only a 138cc. I was wondering if there are many BBKs that would fit this bike? Minimum 149cc, max 200cc. Preferably in the 160-175cc range.
But if nothing out there, and the bbk is an easy job, I wouldn't mind a 149cc.
I feel kind of ripped off a bit, since my last Chinese bike was a roketa MC05 127, 125cc, and this supposed upgrade, is only 13cc bigger instead of 25cc. :(

[ProDigit]

No one has bbk info?
I have bought a cg250 engine, but wanted to see if something like a 175cc bbk existed (or even a 166cc) I could swap with the 150cc for just a bit more power.

I think I've fully tuned this bike out, save for a new camshaft, or bbk kit.

[delzy]

How about an Overhead cam 6 speed with balance shaft for $608 shipped off eBay. If my 4-valve doesn't get out of customs after 2+ months so far, I'm buying one of these. They are about 20hp if I remember right.

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by delzy

How about an Overhead cam 6 speed with balance shaft for $608 shipped off eBay. If my 4-valve doesn't get out of customs after 2+ months so far, I'm buying one of these. They are about 20hp if I remember right.

Interesting! Let us know how it'll do.
I have bought the $435 something CG25 from Walmart.
I also bought a Lifan Xpect 200.
Once my 200 is roadworthy, I might look into the cg250 transplant.
If I only had known they had an ohc engine...

[delzy]

Past due update. My 4V engine never cleared customs. Alibaba offered to return the purchase price to cancel the sale. I'm out about $170 on the deal and undecided whether to go have amex charge back. It will probably cost my alibaba account if I do it so we'll see...



In the meantime, I ordered a ZS172FMM-3A from amazon for $579 minus $100 CC signup bonus for the prime card. It is waiting for install and I'm hoping to document the process sometime this winter. I do love beating the Condor around as is anyway!

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Interesting! Let us know how it'll do.
I have bought the $435 something CG25 from Walmart.
I also bought a Lifan Xpect 200.
Once my 200 is roadworthy, I might look into the cg250 transplant.
If I only had known they had an ohc engine...

The 172-FMM-3A is not a CG250 clone (pushrod 233cc, 14hp). It is a 249cc OHC engine, makes 19hp. It's a CB250F.

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by Thumper

The 172-FMM-3A is not a CG250 clone (pushrod 233cc, 14hp). It is a 249cc OHC engine, makes 19hp. It's a CB250F.

You think it'll fit in the same mounts?