Templar M Stuttering

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by NYCDiesel

It backfires right before it starts decelerating so usually I'll be like maintaining 65mph and then it cuts out and while slowing down it backfires a little bit, I have to let off the throttle to get down to about 45ish and then can roll back on the throttle and it will be fine if I just hover around 50 but if I start pushing past that for more then 30 seconds or so it does what I stated above.

I'll try to get a video of it but of course its rain all day today.

Thumper, the airscrew is what the video I posted is referring too right? Thanks for the help guys, it gets annoying because I'll be going the speed of traffic at and then the bike just starts decelerating and I feel like an idiot because on my RR I just pass everyone lol.

Yes, Drill out that airscrew access block-off.

It sounds like you've gotten into these stock carbs with EPA mandated access restriction

Nibbi isn't better. In fact, they are essentially identical. This stuff is all cloned. The OEM carb is OK.

Here are a couple of links to work done on this carb. Jet kits and good photos.
https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...09&postcount=7
https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...3&postcount=25

[NYCDiesel]

No that is not me in the video, just something I found while trying to diagnose the problem.

J4, I appreciate the input but I bought the bike brand new 6 months ago, and just passed the 120 miles on the odometer. Better not be the valve clearance lol. Just had my valves on my RR checked at 28K and they were fine.

The bike did exceed all my expectations. Yesterday I was flying a drone in a huge field and lost connection, I must have covered at least half a mile riding in a deeply rutted patch of 3ft thorny bushes. I have never off roaded before and it was extremely sketchy but I did what I always do when I'm ever in a dubious situation when I ride - weight down the pedals as much as possible and keep my weight down and back for traction. It hasn't let me down yet, on or off-road.

Megadan and Thumper thanks for the info, the first thing I need to purchase is a jet kit and go from there. Another thing I noticed too is after that couple hour jaunt through the gnarly terrain it seems my chain stretched quite a bit. I am 250lbs but I guess if XPro would skimp out on anything it would be the wearable items, so I think I'm going to order a new chain and sprockets with a lower ratio for more top end but first should figure out this fueling issue.

[Megadan]

cheap worthless chains are a Chinese motorcycle tradition.

[buzz]

Bigger jets my friend,its running out of gas at WOT

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by buzz

Bigger jets my friend,its running out of gas at WOT

If it happens right away, yes. But if some vacuum has to develop before it begins to faulter, then flow behind/to the bowl can be the culprit. Recovery after letting off the gas reinforces this diagnosis. So could be tank filter (probably not on these bikes), petcock, fuel filter, hoses, float bowl valve.

[ProDigit]

in some cases the af screw adds fuel but doesn't help much
It only aggravates the idle. Like it's fighting the idle screw.
On mine, I just closed off the af screw on mine.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

in some cases the af screw adds fuel but doesn't help much
It only aggravates the idle. Like it's fighting the idle screw.
On mine, I just closed off the af screw on mine.

That's because it's not really the A/F screw. It's the idle mixture screw, which is why it mainly affects idle. Using it to correct anything other than idle fueling is the wrong use of that screw.

There are two idle adjustments. Curb Idle speed, aka idle rpm, and idle mixture, aka the actual fueling of said idle. Both generally need to be adjusted together, and only adjusted with the engine fully up to temp. You start with setting the curb idle speed to a slightly higher than normal idle, and then adjust the idle mixture in (on a PE) to find where the idle drops from being a bit too rich, and then back it out a bit at a time until you discover the highest steady idle speed away from that bog point. Then lower the idle rpm to where it should be, usually on these small singles it will be 1500rpm plus or minus 100 rpm.

If at any point the idle increases during your adjustment from where you first set it, lower it back to the rpm you set it to when you started.

If you go less than 1 turn in and the idle doesn't change at all you are too lean (PE carb idle mixture adjusts air) and likely need to go up a couple points or so on the pilot jet, which directly affects the idle circuit.

If you have an unsteady idle and find yourself backing out the idle mixture more than about 2 to 2.5 turns, your pilot jet is too rich and you need to go down a couple points or so.

I always advise to adjust the idle mixture first, and specifically because it's affect on the rest of the throttle sweep is minimal to almost nothing. The pilot jet has the biggest effect on part throttle, up to 1/8 mostly, and maybe about half up to 1/4 throttle. The easiest way to judge if the pilot is a little too big or small is to hold about 1/8th throttle at a steady speed. If it hesitates, bucks, or bogs, adjust appropriately.

Leave the needle in the middle slot on the adjustment as it will be the last adjustment you will want to make since it is affected from both ends by the pilot circuit and the main jet size.

The main jet should be the next jet adjustment. The easiest way to judge the main jet is to do a plug chop after running WOT for a decent length of time so you can freeze frame the fueling on the plug color. Ideally you will want a light to medium tan color on the porcelin. If a plug chop isn't for you, you can also judge the main jet simply by how the bike feels, with the simplest method being to go up a full size at a time until you start to hear/feel it bog down and cut out, and then back off a size. Example - When I first installed the exhaust on my first Hawk, I already had a 110 main jet. To be safe I installed a 120, and it immediately would start bogging out and cutting out from how rich it was. I backed off to a 117.5, but it still felt a bit sluggish. Put in the 115 and it pulled strong to redline. A plug chop showed my plug a nice khaki color, which was perfect.

Only when you know the main jet is good, and your idle and part throttle hasn't changed at all and doesn't need possible adjustment, can you look into adjusting the needle. Now, I tend to try and adjust the needle clip and my idle mixture to be a tad on the lean side of things (in moderate temperatures like 60-70 degrees) - as lean as it can be without causing running issues that is - to try and get my fuel economy as good as I can manage. There is a lot less risk of melting pistons and soft seizures than there is at WOT, so you can get away with it. Plus, being a touch on the lean side in those moderate temps also means when it gets hotter the mixture naturally gets a bit richer. The only downside to that is when i gets colder it may cross over to being a little too lean and then I have to adjust the mixture screw and needle clip position to compensate.

[XLsior]

It could also be the tank breather no allowing air into the tank and creating a vacuum preventing fuel flow at high rpm WOT...


and of course the float position restricting fuel...

[TominMO]

OP, you really need to check the valve clearances. You might be overthinking this problem. Chinabikes are notorious for coming from the factory with too-tight valves. A tight exhaust valve will prevent it from closing because the stem heats up and expands, and you will lose power as you have described. Intake valves don't get so hot, so they are usually not so much of a problem.

[NYCDiesel]

Tomin, I will do that if you think it could be the problem. Here is a video of the sputtering in action, it happens right in the beginning but you can really notice it at the 35 second mark and after. BTW this is in KM never bothered to change it, let me know what you guys think, appreciate any help.

[zero_dgz]

Originally Posted by NYCDiesel

J4, I appreciate the input but I bought the bike brand new 6 months ago, and just passed the 120 miles on the odometer. Better not be the valve clearance lol. Just had my valves on my RR checked at 28K and they were fine.

Have you ever actually checked the valves on your bike?


FYI, your S1000 has shim-and-bucket valves which are good for 10,000 mile adjustment intervals or whatever, and it left the factory in spec. Your Chinese bike does not, and did not. It has screw and tappet valves that A) probably left the factory in a maladjusted state, and B) typically need at least a check, if not adjustment, roughly every 500 miles. Especially when the engine is new. And double especially if they've never been done.



Adjusting the valves on these bikes takes literal minutes and costs $0.00. All you need is a 10mm wrench, a feeler gauge, and a pair of needlenose pliers if you don't want to shell out for the fancy stem holder tool (I didn't). I would eliminate that variable before going nuts elsewhere. Even if this isn't the root of your problem, it'll probably pay to make sure they're in spec.


The valves in all three of my Chinese bikes had no clearance from the factory (and they started a damn sight easier with the valves adjusted!), and the last major trip I took on my Orion revealed that the clearances had wandered out of spec after only about 400 miles of sustained riding.

[Megadan]

Set the valves now. And check them after 500 miles, then at the end of the break in period (1000 to 1200 miles). After that they generally should be checked every 2500 miles or so. That is the Zongshen interval at least. They may not even need.adjustment, but it's a good idea to keep up on it.

[NYCDiesel]

Now I feel dumb for ordering the jets, at least they were only 10$. I'm gonna grab some feeler gauges from harbor freight and give it a go. It does look super simple,I've changed my tires, pads, and chain on my RR (removing tires is a major PITA) so if it is the valves, I'll consider that a win. I'll keep you guys updated, much thanks.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by NYCDiesel

Now I feel dumb for ordering the jets, at least they were only 10$. I'm gonna grab some feeler gauges from harbor freight and give it a go. It does look super simple,I've changed my tires, pads, and chain on my RR (removing tires is a major PITA) so if it is the valves, I'll consider that a win. I'll keep you guys updated, much thanks.

If you can do all of that stuff, valves are a breeze.