Project XL185/CG250 swap - Page 28

XLsior · 04-04-2023, 04:25 AM

went for a ride to feel out how the alterations had implicated riding dynamics...

There would be an increase in weight and air resistance/drag with the tank and panniers.

But also the 1 tooth up sprocket change.

So on the flat I think there is a potential for a higher top speed...but not by much. I think 65mph/105kph is possible depending on wind speed and direction.

Riding dynamics in the bends seems fine. (though the bags were empty) But I didn't have any sensation of being top heavy shifting around.
The bike definitely felt more grounded and less skittish 'planted' So the added heft did have some benefit.

The gearing did stretch out and very steep inclines did require a drop back to 3rd...which actually felt good because it felt useless before and I was shifting to fast to get into 4th and 5th to keep revs down running the 16/45 configuration...

I didn't do much slow 1st and 2nd gear tactical riding...

But I didn't feel like I would stall pulling out in 1st gear either...

17/45 feels pretty good for the current power output of the CG 250 engine...

17/42 or 40 might make a higher top speed possible in optimal conditions, but I don't feel it has enough juice to squeeze before the low end suffers and diminishing returns happen.

I might go 44 with the 'big bore kit' but I'll hold off till I need a new chain.

So far so good...other than losing a exhaust stud nut that must of vibrated off. Ordered some serrated flange nuts to try and if that fails i might fabricate some kind of keeper plate.

might also try a 130 main jet up from a 125.

XLsior · 04-04-2023, 05:17 AM

It could also be the "aussie muffler" is a bit restrictive at the top end...

XLsior · 04-05-2023, 11:13 PM

The super cheap 1.0.2.3.4.5 gear select LED indicator stopped showing 2nd gear...

So I spent a little more this time on a 1.N.2.3.4.5 model instead, Definite improvement in quality, Has proper weather proof housing. Bit bulkier so had to modify the dash bracket hole and just used 2 rubber gromets/O'rings to sandwich into place.

Needed to repin the plug as none of the wire colors meant anything...

The photo makes it look brighter than it is....

But its nice ti have a green N instead of the red 0 before...

XLsior · 04-08-2023, 12:40 AM

With the added weight/equipment.

The front suspension felt like it would need some beefing up...

ATF was used as the project was being reassembled as it was Honda factory spec' and was about 7w. Which probably is fine in original configuration.

I found some 15w on sale so decided to get it done. My reason was fairly bad front brake dive which I think all the upgrades and ancillaries exacerbated the weight/mass and was overloading the front forks.

Yes the heavier weight oil will effect rebound on rough terrain and take out some of the plushness. But I think the better braking is a trade off I'm prepared to make compromises to comfort.

I also have the option of taking out the small springs from the pooched 81shocks and adding them to the 92 spring packs for more preload...

Will see how the 15w goes for now.

Also made a front fender mudflap extension out of some garden edging plastic...

I looked for online alternatives but they all seem to have a strip of double sided tape and a bolt or 2...

I didn't feel like drilling holes in my fender, but I do have a roll of double sided 3M tape...

So cut a flap out of garden edging and stuck it on with a couple of strips...

Will see how long it holds and easy enough to replace if it lets go.

XLsior · 04-09-2023, 03:11 AM

Easter Sunday Ride.

The front suspension was not terrible, definitely more confident braking.

Very windy conditions, so hard to say how handling felt...maybe a bit more under steer but I think it might be just as much my lack of riding readjustment to the changes in fork oil.

If I was riding a rutted washboard dirt road I might have a different opinion but the jump in oil viscosity seems ok...

On a different matter does the heat insulation spacer that typically comes with carburetors that are meant to be installed between the manifold and carb really have much of an effect?

I don't really have the clearance to use the insulation spacer so my Nibbi 28 is direct bolted to the manifold with a single paper gasket.

my hot restarts seem a bit fatigued...but that's all that seems to be implicated, when the bike is running I can't fault the power/fueling.

I can't see how the heat wouldn't just transfer through the studs about as much with or without the insulation spacer...

Anyway just thought I'd bring it up if anyone else is having some hot restart issues with the Nibbi 28...

XLsior · 04-09-2023, 09:39 PM

I think my speed sensor might need adjusting otherwise i'm only getting about 30mpg at best.

My diesel van gets about 20-25mpg

Trip counter hit 105km filled the tank with 8.5l.... So about 0.8lpkm

I will have too run another gps speed and distance cross check to confirm the dash display number are correct.

If not the bike is a thirsty bitch...

XLsior · 04-09-2023, 11:09 PM

I just did a reroute retrace using google maps to get some idea of the distance Ive covered....

suffice to say the numbers don't add up... I've definetly covered more distance than my odometer reads..

XLsior · 04-10-2023, 03:49 AM

OK I think i worked out the issue with my speed and distance readings.

I can dial in on the dash the speed/circumference amount but my sensor is using the XL185 drum brake sender.

My adapter appears to be marketed for Xl/XL 500-600.

So even if my adapter fits the ratios might be wrong...

Well I got the gps app running and did some runs with multiple trip resets on both the dash and gps.

Speed and distance do not seem to correlate... with the speed dailed in the distance seemed about 1/3 out running short.

So I found the drum hub off the pooched 81 bike and it looks like a 21/7 or 3/1 ratio.

I think the dash wants a 2/1 ratio.

I looked on Aliexpress and found this... which appears to be a 22/12 in similar dimensions...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...oductlist.main

Problem is I can't figure out how the shaft drive gear comes out or what's locking it in the hub? is the a spring clip somewhere perhaps?

any help would be great on how to remove it?

XLsior · 04-10-2023, 04:03 AM

so 30mpg /2 =15x3 is about 45mpg which still isn't even close to a cg250 60ish mpg...

though I think my 105km was more like 150km using map distances...

Basically I cant reliably use my odometer reading for now.

XLsior · 04-13-2023, 04:25 AM

I purchased and Aliexpress fork brace...narrow generic...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004634277485.html

With the hope it could be adapted to fit my XL185 front suspension.

It arrived today so went about making the adaptions.

cut here...weld there...drill holes and bend in areas to fit...

Happy with the result.

yes more added weight but in theory better safety/handling

XLsior · 04-19-2023, 06:12 PM

In 5th gear WOT I was having trouble getting passed 7000rpm. I think the exhaust was constipated.

So...

I looked at new exhaust systems and cans but I had already put in the time modifying the exhaust pipe work to fit...

Decided to go down the path of modifying the "Aussie Muffler"

The muffler did come with the bike so seems inherent to the project.

It was designed to improve an XL125/185 and XR200. But I think they all used smaller diameter pipe...

The muffler slipped over the XL185 header pipe, but was about the same diameter as the CG250 header pipe...

However the muffler exit pipe diameter was rather small.

I ordered an Aliexpress baffle thing that looked wider and less restrictive. Turns out it is mostly stainless steel...bonus.

Well I managed to cut out the restrictive exit pipe/baffle. Killed 2 hole saw bits and ended up using a dremel* and cutting discs.

It appears the Aussie Muffler is rather advanced with a spiral inner resonator chamber...

But it also meant the Aliexpress baffle wouldn't fit...So I had to modify that too.

I did try the muffler without the baffle which was harsh and would probably perforate an ear drum eventually.

XLsior · 04-19-2023, 06:21 PM

After breaking down the new baffle into its individual parts.

The tip was extended and the mesh was cut and tapered down conical to a 10c coin to make an end stop the same diameter as the original baffle.

Didn't know what to do with the end cap/cowl so I just butt welded it to the muffler in a retro sci fi Ray gun kind of way.

The number of holes in the mesh is already a massive improvement in flow compared to the original.

So no doubt in my mind the top end rev range should be less choked down now.

I'm out of high temp paint to finish the look...

XLsior · 04-21-2023, 11:14 PM

The Alu' sheet license plate holder started to fatigue and get floppy at the fender mount...

So hacked the busted bin again to make a HDPE version.

A bit more robust.

ghostdancing · 04-22-2023, 06:49 AM

Xlsior, what CDI are you running? is it AC or DC?

XLsior · 04-22-2023, 08:54 AM

Not sure, 8 pole stator, 4 wire reg, and a 6 pin/2 plug CDI that came with the original loom.

I just get the spare CDI/REG/Coil kits for 250cc dirt bikes on ebay...nothing fancy.

My guess was the Zongshen stamped engine cover and ZS----serial number came from a Zongshen branded motorcycle here in Australia that bit the dust.

04-05-2023, 11:13 PM	#408
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Dicky Gear LED The super cheap 1.0.2.3.4.5 gear select LED indicator stopped showing 2nd gear... So I spent a little more this time on a 1.N.2.3.4.5 model instead, Definite improvement in quality, Has proper weather proof housing. Bit bulkier so had to modify the dash bracket hole and just used 2 rubber gromets/O'rings to sandwich into place. Needed to repin the plug as none of the wire colors meant anything... The photo makes it look brighter than it is.... But its nice ti have a green N instead of the red 0 before... Attached Thumbnails
	1

04-08-2023, 12:40 AM	#409
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Fork Oil and Mudflap With the added weight/equipment. The front suspension felt like it would need some beefing up... ATF was used as the project was being reassembled as it was Honda factory spec' and was about 7w. Which probably is fine in original configuration. I found some 15w on sale so decided to get it done. My reason was fairly bad front brake dive which I think all the upgrades and ancillaries exacerbated the weight/mass and was overloading the front forks. Yes the heavier weight oil will effect rebound on rough terrain and take out some of the plushness. But I think the better braking is a trade off I'm prepared to make compromises to comfort. I also have the option of taking out the small springs from the pooched 81shocks and adding them to the 92 spring packs for more preload... Will see how the 15w goes for now. Also made a front fender mudflap extension out of some garden edging plastic... I looked for online alternatives but they all seem to have a strip of double sided tape and a bolt or 2... I didn't feel like drilling holes in my fender, but I do have a roll of double sided 3M tape... So cut a flap out of garden edging and stuck it on with a couple of strips... Will see how long it holds and easy enough to replace if it lets go. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by XLsior; 04-08-2023 at 04:39 AM.
	0

04-09-2023, 03:11 AM	#410
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Easter Sunday Ride. The front suspension was not terrible, definitely more confident braking. Very windy conditions, so hard to say how handling felt...maybe a bit more under steer but I think it might be just as much my lack of riding readjustment to the changes in fork oil. If I was riding a rutted washboard dirt road I might have a different opinion but the jump in oil viscosity seems ok... On a different matter does the heat insulation spacer that typically comes with carburetors that are meant to be installed between the manifold and carb really have much of an effect? I don't really have the clearance to use the insulation spacer so my Nibbi 28 is direct bolted to the manifold with a single paper gasket. my hot restarts seem a bit fatigued...but that's all that seems to be implicated, when the bike is running I can't fault the power/fueling. I can't see how the heat wouldn't just transfer through the studs about as much with or without the insulation spacer... Anyway just thought I'd bring it up if anyone else is having some hot restart issues with the Nibbi 28... Last edited by XLsior; 04-09-2023 at 04:29 PM.
	0

04-09-2023, 09:39 PM	#411
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	I think my speed sensor might need adjusting otherwise i'm only getting about 30mpg at best. My diesel van gets about 20-25mpg Trip counter hit 105km filled the tank with 8.5l.... So about 0.8lpkm I will have too run another gps speed and distance cross check to confirm the dash display number are correct. If not the bike is a thirsty bitch... Last edited by XLsior; 04-09-2023 at 11:06 PM.
	0

04-10-2023, 03:49 AM	#413
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Speed Sensors and Odometers OK I think i worked out the issue with my speed and distance readings. I can dial in on the dash the speed/circumference amount but my sensor is using the XL185 drum brake sender. My adapter appears to be marketed for Xl/XL 500-600. So even if my adapter fits the ratios might be wrong... Well I got the gps app running and did some runs with multiple trip resets on both the dash and gps. Speed and distance do not seem to correlate... with the speed dailed in the distance seemed about 1/3 out running short. So I found the drum hub off the pooched 81 bike and it looks like a 21/7 or 3/1 ratio. I think the dash wants a 2/1 ratio. I looked on Aliexpress and found this... which appears to be a 22/12 in similar dimensions... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...oductlist.main Problem is I can't figure out how the shaft drive gear comes out or what's locking it in the hub? is the a spring clip somewhere perhaps? any help would be great on how to remove it? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by XLsior; 04-10-2023 at 06:17 PM.
	0

04-04-2023, 04:25 AM	#406
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	went for a ride to feel out how the alterations had implicated riding dynamics... There would be an increase in weight and air resistance/drag with the tank and panniers. But also the 1 tooth up sprocket change. So on the flat I think there is a potential for a higher top speed...but not by much. I think 65mph/105kph is possible depending on wind speed and direction. Riding dynamics in the bends seems fine. (though the bags were empty) But I didn't have any sensation of being top heavy shifting around. The bike definitely felt more grounded and less skittish 'planted' So the added heft did have some benefit. The gearing did stretch out and very steep inclines did require a drop back to 3rd...which actually felt good because it felt useless before and I was shifting to fast to get into 4th and 5th to keep revs down running the 16/45 configuration... I didn't do much slow 1st and 2nd gear tactical riding... But I didn't feel like I would stall pulling out in 1st gear either... 17/45 feels pretty good for the current power output of the CG 250 engine... 17/42 or 40 might make a higher top speed possible in optimal conditions, but I don't feel it has enough juice to squeeze before the low end suffers and diminishing returns happen. I might go 44 with the 'big bore kit' but I'll hold off till I need a new chain. So far so good...other than losing a exhaust stud nut that must of vibrated off. Ordered some serrated flange nuts to try and if that fails i might fabricate some kind of keeper plate. might also try a 130 main jet up from a 125.
	2

04-04-2023, 05:17 AM	#407
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	It could also be the "aussie muffler" is a bit restrictive at the top end...
	2

04-09-2023, 11:09 PM	#412
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	I just did a reroute retrace using google maps to get some idea of the distance Ive covered.... suffice to say the numbers don't add up... I've definetly covered more distance than my odometer reads..
	0

04-10-2023, 04:03 AM	#414
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	so 30mpg /2 =15x3 is about 45mpg which still isn't even close to a cg250 60ish mpg... though I think my 105km was more like 150km using map distances... Basically I cant reliably use my odometer reading for now.
	0

04-13-2023, 04:25 AM	#415
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Fork Handles / 4 candles? I purchased and Aliexpress fork brace...narrow generic... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004634277485.html With the hope it could be adapted to fit my XL185 front suspension. It arrived today so went about making the adaptions. cut here...weld there...drill holes and bend in areas to fit... Happy with the result. yes more added weight but in theory better safety/handling Attached Thumbnails
	2

04-19-2023, 06:12 PM	#416
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Baffling Situation. In 5th gear WOT I was having trouble getting passed 7000rpm. I think the exhaust was constipated. So... I looked at new exhaust systems and cans but I had already put in the time modifying the exhaust pipe work to fit... Decided to go down the path of modifying the "Aussie Muffler" The muffler did come with the bike so seems inherent to the project. It was designed to improve an XL125/185 and XR200. But I think they all used smaller diameter pipe... The muffler slipped over the XL185 header pipe, but was about the same diameter as the CG250 header pipe... However the muffler exit pipe diameter was rather small. I ordered an Aliexpress baffle thing that looked wider and less restrictive. Turns out it is mostly stainless steel...bonus. Well I managed to cut out the restrictive exit pipe/baffle. Killed 2 hole saw bits and ended up using a dremel* and cutting discs. It appears the Aussie Muffler is rather advanced with a spiral inner resonator chamber... But it also meant the Aliexpress baffle wouldn't fit...So I had to modify that too. I did try the muffler without the baffle which was harsh and would probably perforate an ear drum eventually. Attached Thumbnails
	1

04-19-2023, 06:21 PM	#417
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Getting Exhausted After breaking down the new baffle into its individual parts. The tip was extended and the mesh was cut and tapered down conical to a 10c coin to make an end stop the same diameter as the original baffle. Didn't know what to do with the end cap/cowl so I just butt welded it to the muffler in a retro sci fi Ray gun kind of way. The number of holes in the mesh is already a massive improvement in flow compared to the original. So no doubt in my mind the top end rev range should be less choked down now. I'm out of high temp paint to finish the look... Attached Thumbnails Last edited by XLsior; 04-20-2023 at 03:39 AM.
	0

04-21-2023, 11:14 PM	#418
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Plate Holder Mk2 The Alu' sheet license plate holder started to fatigue and get floppy at the fender mount... So hacked the busted bin again to make a HDPE version. A bit more robust. Attached Thumbnails
	0

04-22-2023, 06:49 AM	#419
ghostdancing Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 62	Xlsior, what CDI are you running? is it AC or DC?
	0

04-22-2023, 08:54 AM	#420
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,455	Not sure, 8 pole stator, 4 wire reg, and a 6 pin/2 plug CDI that came with the original loom. I just get the spare CDI/REG/Coil kits for 250cc dirt bikes on ebay...nothing fancy. My guess was the Zongshen stamped engine cover and ZS----serial number came from a Zongshen branded motorcycle here in Australia that bit the dust.
	0