Need fuel injection help (Faspider 150)

DrCharles · 07-18-2019, 05:22 AM

Hi.. I just joined and also put most of this info in my first post, to the new member/introduction area.

my Chinese 2008 "Faspider"/TMM 150cc EFI scooter. This is also known as a Garelli CityFour 150 for part number purposes.

This past winter was very cold and wet and the gas tank rusted inside. The filter sock was also split so all the rust worked its way through the fuel pump, pressure regulator, filter, injector (and fine silt even visible in the gas downstream of the filter!) Ran intermittently. So I replaced all those parts.

I've been chasing my tail due to intermittent no-spark and no-injection problems, and not at the same time. Checked power, grounds and all sensor inputs to the connector where it plugs in the ECU.

As an example, most recently I discovered that the engine was actually flooding. If I disconnected the plug to the fuel injector, after cranking a few seconds with the throttle wide-open, it would start and run, then gradually die as it leaned out. So I'd assumed the rusty pressure regulator was at fault. Just got one today, and still no-start. Didn't take long to determine that there are NO pulses at the fuel injector, just a dim test light with no flashes. Before that, I had good fuel squirts and the light flashed.

I can only assume that there are bad solder joints on the board, but it's potted so I can't tear into it (and only have basic hand tools and a multimeter here anyway).

Anyone know where I can get a good used Delphi MC21 1060 box?

**JerryHawk250** · 07-18-2019, 07:43 AM

Do you have the part number? P/N xxxxxxxxxx

DrCharles · 07-18-2019, 08:04 AM

There are several part numbers on it:

As noted, it's type Delphi MC21 1060
Also on the label: h/w pn HV50
s/w pn 80509001007108
series 000273
mfg date 080520

Finally, it's Garelli p/n GA09610.
Mfr p/n B1830C1 which appears to be an internal number and not searchable.
Scooter is a "TM150T-28A".

Any MC21 would probably work but I'd need the cable and laptop software to reprogram it, which of course I also don't have and can't find...
thanks.

**JerryHawk250** · 07-18-2019, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCharles

There are several part numbers on it:

As noted, it's type Delphi MC21 1060
Also on the label: h/w pn HV50
s/w pn 80509001007108
series 000273
mfg date 080520

Finally, it's Garelli p/n GA09610.
Mfr p/n B1830C1 which appears to be an internal number and not searchable.
Scooter is a "TM150T-28A".

Any MC21 would probably work but I'd need the cable and laptop software to reprogram it, which of course I also don't have and can't find...
thanks.

Thanks, I will try to help search. From the little searching I have done already it seems to be a rare part.

**JerryHawk250** · 07-18-2019, 08:31 AM

Can you post a picture of it?

DrCharles · 07-18-2019, 08:32 AM

>it seems to be a rare part.

Ya, I kind of noticed that

From 2009-on, Garelli (and presumably any other brands whose badges attach to this chassis) use a different ECU which is easier to find, but not harness-compatible. Unfortunately this is the "Obsolete Injection System" that the parts spreadsheet is clearly labeled.

I even considered buying a Microsquirt and tuning it myself, but that's about $350 for the box and harness, plus I'd probably have to spend more on an interface cable and software. Next summer I may just have buy another used scooter with more parts and repair support!

DrCharles · 07-18-2019, 08:35 AM

Picture on page 18, drawings, schematics, everything I need to know... except where to buy one

http://massimoparts.com/pdf/14084598...E%20MANUAL.pdf

**JerryHawk250** · 07-18-2019, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrCharles

From 2009-on, Garelli (and presumably any other brands whose badges attach to this chassis) use a different ECU which is easier to find, but not harness-compatible. Unfortunately this is the "Obsolete Injection System" that the parts spreadsheet is clearly labeled.

That's what I've been finding. Hopefully Member Humanbeing will chime in later. He is pretty good at finding this kind of stuff.

DrCharles · 07-18-2019, 10:52 AM

I'm heading back to the US on Aug. 6th so either I need it now, or I have all winter to find one

If nobody can turn up an MC21, the Microsquirt is still looking do-able, except that I'd be spending about half the cost towards another scooter!

In the event I do buy another bike, it will be a brand name like Piaggio or Aprilia, even if some of it may be Chinese underneath. At least that way there'll be some parts support... maybe

**JerryHawk250** · 07-18-2019, 11:46 AM

You could also update the entire EFI system with tuning program. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3278...ddresstype=600

humanbeing · 07-18-2019, 05:11 PM

According to http://geon-club.com.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5735 that MC21 ECU seems repairable.

DrCharles · 07-19-2019, 03:27 AM

Interesting, thank you! I thought that the potting compound was difficult or impossible to remove without damage...

However, there are different intermittent failures (no spark or no fuel). It is possible that a bad solder joint (especially at the connector) could cause this. But it may be difficult to reproduce on the bench.

If another MC21 can be located, I'd like to swap it and see if it fixes the problem before tearing apart the original

DrCharles · 10-05-2021, 07:01 PM

I ended up buying a nice Piaggio Beverly Tourer 300

But I still have the Chinese one... and it has the same problem. I sold it to a guy who thought he could fix it. He couldn't, so I gave him his money back and took the bike back.
In Greece you can't transfer title (sell) a bike unless it has current inspection - and I can't get it inspected if it's not running :( The only other alternative is to scrap it and then it can never be re-registered.

Meanwhile I took the ECU back to the US with me, now waiting for a connector to arrive so I can rig up a test harness on my workbench! Still would rather just be able to swap in a replacement when I go next year. I can't locate one anywhere... Liteon/Delphi MC21. See post #3 for the details. Sorry I can't post a pic.

DrCharles · 01-17-2022, 11:31 AM

I was able to carefully cut the case open along the seam, and with a little bit of heat and some picking, remove the bottom and expose the board as shown in post #11.

Same failure, too (Q3, the fuel injector driver transistor, was shorted). In fact, when I desoldered it, it came apart in two pieces. One can be seen at the upper right... I'm waiting for a new transistor from Mouser Electronics, but the signal pulse does appear at the gate of Q3. So I am confident it will work once I put the new one in.

This coming summer I'll be back in Crete (Covid-19 permitting!) and will try it "live". Fingers crossed. I never have been able to find a replacement MC21 to date...

07-18-2019, 07:43 AM	#2
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,592	Do you have the part number? P/N xxxxxxxxxx __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

07-18-2019, 08:31 AM	#5
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,592	Can you post a picture of it? __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

07-18-2019, 11:46 AM	#10
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,592	You could also update the entire EFI system with tuning program. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3278...ddresstype=600 __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

07-18-2019, 05:22 AM	#1
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	Need fuel injection help (Faspider 150) Hi.. I just joined and also put most of this info in my first post, to the new member/introduction area. my Chinese 2008 "Faspider"/TMM 150cc EFI scooter. This is also known as a Garelli CityFour 150 for part number purposes. This past winter was very cold and wet and the gas tank rusted inside. The filter sock was also split so all the rust worked its way through the fuel pump, pressure regulator, filter, injector (and fine silt even visible in the gas downstream of the filter!) Ran intermittently. So I replaced all those parts. I've been chasing my tail due to intermittent no-spark and no-injection problems, and not at the same time. Checked power, grounds and all sensor inputs to the connector where it plugs in the ECU. As an example, most recently I discovered that the engine was actually flooding. If I disconnected the plug to the fuel injector, after cranking a few seconds with the throttle wide-open, it would start and run, then gradually die as it leaned out. So I'd assumed the rusty pressure regulator was at fault. Just got one today, and still no-start. Didn't take long to determine that there are NO pulses at the fuel injector, just a dim test light with no flashes. Before that, I had good fuel squirts and the light flashed. I can only assume that there are bad solder joints on the board, but it's potted so I can't tear into it (and only have basic hand tools and a multimeter here anyway). Anyone know where I can get a good used Delphi MC21 1060 box?
	0

07-18-2019, 08:04 AM	#3
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	There are several part numbers on it: As noted, it's type Delphi MC21 1060 Also on the label: h/w pn HV50 s/w pn 80509001007108 series 000273 mfg date 080520 Finally, it's Garelli p/n GA09610. Mfr p/n B1830C1 which appears to be an internal number and not searchable. Scooter is a "TM150T-28A". Any MC21 would probably work but I'd need the cable and laptop software to reprogram it, which of course I also don't have and can't find... thanks.
	0

07-18-2019, 08:32 AM	#6
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	>it seems to be a rare part. Ya, I kind of noticed that From 2009-on, Garelli (and presumably any other brands whose badges attach to this chassis) use a different ECU which is easier to find, but not harness-compatible. Unfortunately this is the "Obsolete Injection System" that the parts spreadsheet is clearly labeled. I even considered buying a Microsquirt and tuning it myself, but that's about $350 for the box and harness, plus I'd probably have to spend more on an interface cable and software. Next summer I may just have buy another used scooter with more parts and repair support!
	0

07-18-2019, 08:35 AM	#7
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	Picture on page 18, drawings, schematics, everything I need to know... except where to buy one http://massimoparts.com/pdf/14084598...E%20MANUAL.pdf
	1

07-18-2019, 10:52 AM	#9
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	I'm heading back to the US on Aug. 6th so either I need it now, or I have all winter to find one If nobody can turn up an MC21, the Microsquirt is still looking do-able, except that I'd be spending about half the cost towards another scooter! In the event I do buy another bike, it will be a brand name like Piaggio or Aprilia, even if some of it may be Chinese underneath. At least that way there'll be some parts support... maybe
	1

07-18-2019, 05:11 PM	#11
humanbeing Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,436	According to http://geon-club.com.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5735 that MC21 ECU seems repairable. __________________
	3

07-19-2019, 03:27 AM	#12
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	Interesting, thank you! I thought that the potting compound was difficult or impossible to remove without damage... However, there are different intermittent failures (no spark or no fuel). It is possible that a bad solder joint (especially at the connector) could cause this. But it may be difficult to reproduce on the bench. If another MC21 can be located, I'd like to swap it and see if it fixes the problem before tearing apart the original
	0

10-05-2021, 07:01 PM	#13
DrCharles Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 9	I ended up buying a nice Piaggio Beverly Tourer 300 But I still have the Chinese one... and it has the same problem. I sold it to a guy who thought he could fix it. He couldn't, so I gave him his money back and took the bike back. In Greece you can't transfer title (sell) a bike unless it has current inspection - and I can't get it inspected if it's not running :( The only other alternative is to scrap it and then it can never be re-registered. Meanwhile I took the ECU back to the US with me, now waiting for a connector to arrive so I can rig up a test harness on my workbench! Still would rather just be able to swap in a replacement when I go next year. I can't locate one anywhere... Liteon/Delphi MC21. See post #3 for the details. Sorry I can't post a pic.
	0