Special Battery Charger for Lifan Lithium Battery??

[goJimH]

So far - I am very happy with my EFI Lifan Xpect.

The EFI portion has worked great from the very first start. It's pretty amazing to assemble your bike for first time - and watch it start a split second after you push the start button for the first time.

I have seen would be purchasers skittish and concerned about the reliability of the EFI system but so far - among Lifan Xpect issues I have not noticed any on this forum due to / related to the EFI system. (Fingers Crossed)

However - the other day it occurred to me that trying the kick or jump start the Xpect with a dead battery would likely be futile. Perhaps this is why they come with a Lithium battery.

Chasing this down more - I see indications that you need a special charger for Lithium batteries.

Does any one have experience in this?

Any Lifan XPect Owner ever had any problems with their battery and/or EFI systems?

Just Curious. All comments appreciated!

[Essayons]

I have lithium batteries in my RX3 and TT250. I bought my lithium charger from Cycle Gear. It was not cheap. As I understand it, you need a charger designed for lihium batteries. The good thing is the one I bought is capable of charging all other types of batteries as well.It's on sale right now for $49.99.

[goJimH]

Originally Posted by Essayons

I have lithium batteries in my RX3 and TT250. I bought my lithium charger from Cycle Gear. It was not cheap. As I understand it, you need a charger designed for lihium batteries. The good thing is the one I bought is capable of charging all other types of batteries as well.It's on sale right now for $49.99.

Essayons; Thank you. I will look at that and figure something out. First - I probably need to unhook my battery and determine what voltage it is (6v or 12v).

Once again - Thank you!

[Essayons]

I'm no expert but I'm going to say your battery is 12v. Chinese bikes are based of modern day, off the shelf 12v parts. 6v would be a bit of a hassle to get bulbs for.

[humanbeing]

Most powersport lithium battery are FeLiPO4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithiu...sphate_battery * 4 cells. r/c hobbyist may had a charger support these thingy already

[goJimH]

Originally Posted by Essayons

I'm no expert but I'm going to say your battery is 12v. Chinese bikes are based of modern day, off the shelf 12v parts. 6v would be a bit of a hassle to get bulbs for.

Thank you - and you are spot on. I measured the voltage last night - and also the demission's. I have not seen any post for a Lifan XPect having battery problems but just wanted to be prepared.

Once again - Thank You!

[goJimH]

Originally Posted by humanbeing

Most powersport lithium battery are FeLiPO4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithiu...sphate_battery * 4 cells. r/c hobbyist may had a charger support these thingy already

Humanbeing: Thank you. I have seen FeLiPO4 mentioned before but did not know what it meant.

[goJimH]

I ended up ordering the "Battery Tender Junior Charger and Maintainer: 12 Volt, 800mA Battery Charger for Lead Acid and Lithium Batteries"

[Megadan]

Lithium batteries require a specifically rated charger due to how lithium cells take a charge. Specifically, lithium batteries need to have the last 5% or so of the charge process to be extremely limited and regulated, as a lithium cell does not take well to overcharging. Lithium cells are also much more finicky when it comes to their charge voltage range, which has a much narrower window than a typical lead acid battery. This is the same reason that there are specific regulator/rectifiers that need to be run when using a lithium battery on a bike.

[goJimH]

Originally Posted by Megadan

Lithium batteries require a specifically rated charger due to how lithium cells take a charge. Specifically, lithium batteries need to have the last 5% or so of the charge process to be extremely limited and regulated, as a lithium cell does not take well to overcharging. Lithium cells are also much more finicky when it comes to their charge voltage range, which has a much narrower window than a typical lead acid battery. This is the same reason that there are specific regulator/rectifiers that need to be run when using a lithium battery on a bike.

Megadan,

Thank you. Good to know. I will also keep that in mind down the road if I need to do any electrical repairs.

[ChillRider]

TBQH I never understood if those motorcycle/car lithium batteries are a true drop-in replacement for your conventional lead-acid ones or they require a more complete retrofit/specialized accessories.


I always imagined that at least some of them contain special adaptive/protective circuitry in order for them to be directly compatible with existing electrical systems, but apparently that's not always the case?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by ChillRider

TBQH I never understood if those motorcycle/car lithium batteries are a true drop-in replacement for your conventional lead-acid ones or they require a more complete retrofit/specialized accessories.


I always imagined that at least some of them contain special adaptive/protective circuitry in order for them to be directly compatible with existing electrical systems, but apparently that's not always the case?

Some of the higher end lithium batteries do actually have their own built in regulation circuits so they can be run on most bikes without issue. Even with those circuits, the charging system needs to be able to generally maintain a voltage range of 12.8V at idle to no greater than 14.6-14.8V maximum.

Generally this can be easily achieved by switching to a solid state reg/rec - ie, Mosfet - and eliminating the trigger/sense circuit usually tied into the ignition hot lead, if so equipped. (usually a black wire on Honda bikes)

If the stator cannot maintain that charge level during operation, or due to the sense circuit causes too high of a voltage, it can damage the lithium cells and reduce their ability to take a charge or maintain a charge.

Generally what happens when a lithium battery is run on a bike without taking the proper steps to ensure the voltage stays within range is a shorter lifespan, which is not a very handy thing when the battery costs several times as much as a good lead acid or AGM.

[Plump Kibbles]

Just from an engineering point of view..

If you hook a lithium battery up to a charger designed for other cells - that could be very bad. Potential fire and / or explosion - if to that point.. Have seen many charging mistakes in the RC world; people have taken their NiCad or NIMH battery chargers and plugged them into their lithium batteries. Definitely not a fun experience; puffed batteries, and to the point where I've seen one blow up.. Just think of your laptop battery - for every cell, there is an explosion. Though - many chargers are universally adaptable that can 'tell the difference' between the cells. I have a charger that can switch between NiCads, NIMH, and lithium but for small cell batteries - AA, AAA, and my 18650's for vaping and flashlights.


Not trying to scare you lol.. but, Lithium + Oxygen = kaboom-boom.


I would absolutely get a charger that can do them all, or just a specific one for lithium. That may be a little pricey for what it is, but will avoid much disaster in the long run. Wouldn't hurt to have one dedicated to that one bike either - just so you don't use resources to plug up another charger to another bike.. just my opinion though!


For the stator, you could put a capacitance circuit in between the leads; or grab a voltage regulator and attach to the battery. In my very honest opinion about Li-ion type batteries for vehicles, na.. think about your phone, or laptop. When it's done; it's done.. IF.. there's an issue with the charging to the battery while running the bike.... it would just suck lol.. but, again.. my opinion.. In all honesty though, you are going to do as you please, but you may have to beef up your charging from the stator. I'm positive there are options available for this, or you could just make your own (always my option, always cheaper lol).