Vader Big Bore Kit

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

The cc improvement may not be much, but my guess is the new cylinder race head makes more of an improvement than the bore. It comes with a more aggressively timed cam and roller rocker arms so it revs up much quicker. Also, the piston that comes with the big bore kit has much higher compression than the stock one; it has a more convex shape to it. There's not much more room for a larger bore due to the rods holding the cylinder and head in place. The steel lining of the cylinder it pretty much touching the rods with this kit so I couldn't imagine any larger big bore kits for this engine.

Yeah I agree it ould easily make loads more noticeable power--Even with my calculations that's still over a 10% increase in displacement plus if it has higher compression it can make more power plus a better camshaft can make a better power xurve across the rpm range with the new kit and like I said before perhaps the race head does add the neccesary cc to make it a 146cc. I hope to be able to afford it...some day.

Thanks for the tip on the carb!! . Too bad about the block off plate being needed--I hope that isnt too hard. I wonder if people are easily making their own block off plates or buying them hopefully cheap?

[RedCrowRides]

The block off plate needed isn't hard to make at all , i used a piece of 1/8" thick aluminum scrap ,traced design on , cut it out with a raggedy jigsaw then cleaned up the outside with a file ,drilled the two holes in it and bingo It is not under any kind of hi pressure so it doesnt have to be super strong or precise ,you could use most anything that wont melt to make it out of .Kronik Racing ,often mentioned on this Forum "might" actually have made ones they will sell but really it's so easy to make

I'm not sure there is much demand ,but you could check with them.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

The block off plate needed isn't hard to make at all , i used a piece of 1/8" thick aluminum scrap ,traced design on , cut it out with a raggedy jigsaw then cleaned up the outside with a file ,drilled the two holes in it and bingo It is not under any kind of hi pressure so it doesnt have to be super strong or precise ,you could use most anything that wont melt to make it out of .Kronik Racing ,often mentioned on this Forum "might" actually have made ones they will sell but really it's so easy to make

I'm not sure there is much demand ,but you could check with them.

For other bikes to block off differt EGR systems I have seen people use whater flange that came with the bike and bolted onto the hole originally then they cut that (if needed) so it is basically a flat plate with the bolt holes to bolt on plus a hole in the middle for where the EGR gasses went thru. THEN they took that and placed it on a piece of scrap wood or whatever and filled in the EGR hole with JB Weld--Then Voila they have a block off plate that definitly alrady has the proper bolt hole pattern and only costed 'em the price of JB Weld--a couple $$ and I have heard it works well from the Youtube community. I am not sure what comes stock on the Vader for an EGR type system but I am going to find out soon and TRY the JB Weld method if I can--otherwise you are correct Mr. RedCrowRides that it seems pretty easy to go make your own block off plate from a piece of steel/aluminum of approximately the right size or a bracket from the hardware store and drill your own bolt holes and clean it up and done!

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

One of the first things I changed on this bike is the carb. The choke sucked and was way too small to get any decent power out of it. This is the one I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a replica of the Mikuni vm26, so if you wanna buy the genuine Mikuni go ahead. This carb works good though. Only complaint that the fuel/air screw is a little difficult to reach when its mounted on the engine. The idle screw is fine. You have to remove the EGR system to put this carb on as well as plug a hole in the stock cylinder head from this system. However, if you buy that race head then you wont have to worry about that Also, I don't think California inspects motorcycles? There's no smog test for motorcycles so I'm assuming there's no visual inspection on them either. So I ripped off all my emissions stuff and gutted my cat on the exhaust and welded on an aftermarket muffler haha

Ohh..I was just wondering what size to go with and just posted on another thread of this forum asking qhat size carb to go with. WHat size is stock carb/jets? and if I only start with changing the carb and MAYBE a UNI filter Maybe removing some guts from the stock exhaust (if it's easy and doesn't involve a hacksaw!) then should I go with the 22mm or 26mm Mikuni/clone? and I know I already asked but also any jet suggestions for whatever carb anyone reccomends is welcome! Thanks

also Sigma6 posts a kit on Ebay for just under $40 I COULD use on stock or replacement carb that includes:
Main Jets
Pilot Jet
Needle Adjusters
Nylon Needle Spacers
Slide Spring Modification
Drill Bits for
Slide Hole Modification (optional)
Idle Mixture Modification
Intake Airbox Modification
Exhaust Modification
Tuning Tech
Bike Specs
Carb Schematic
Carb Synchronizer Tool (how to build for $5)
Step by step instructions with photos for ease of installation.
Installation Support - If you need assistance we are there for you.

I guess the idea is replace the jets with the kit and also drill the jets (if neccesary) with drill bits included--plus you can drill the stock airbox/exhaust with the included drill bits and Im wondering if this is any good or worth it?

Im thinking I would maybe be better off just getting my own drill bits and my own jet kit if I do go the route of the Sigma6 kit mods but the Sigma6 kit does come with instructions and it is all supposedly cutom measured and all to fit the Vader

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

Hey guys, I've been using this site as a reference for a while now. Finally decided to join in on the fun! So I have a Vader/Baodiao 125cc grom clone. I have been doing some work on it here and there, mainly power upgrades to keep up with traffic in busy Southern California aka 60 mph comfortably. So far, I have installed the mikuni 26mm carb, 17t front sprocket, and aftermarket exhaust w/ gutted cat. Top speed was 60 mph exactly so far! Now I'm looking for a big bore kit as a next step.

You should put on see thru engine kits like this timing chain/head side cover: http://www.msx125accessories.com/hon...ead-side-cover

[wlfpck]

Originally Posted by sirmaxwell

Ohh..I was just wondering what size to go with and just posted on another thread of this forum asking qhat size carb to go with. WHat size is stock carb/jets? and if I only start with changing the carb and MAYBE a UNI filter Maybe removing some guts from the stock exhaust (if it's easy and doesn't involve a hacksaw!) then should I go with the 22mm or 26mm Mikuni/clone? and I know I already asked but also any jet suggestions for whatever carb anyone reccomends is welcome! Thanks

also Sigma6 posts a kit on Ebay for just under $40 I COULD use on stock or replacement carb that includes:
Main Jets
Pilot Jet
Needle Adjusters
Nylon Needle Spacers
Slide Spring Modification
Drill Bits for
Slide Hole Modification (optional)
Idle Mixture Modification
Intake Airbox Modification
Exhaust Modification
Tuning Tech
Bike Specs
Carb Schematic
Carb Synchronizer Tool (how to build for $5)
Step by step instructions with photos for ease of installation.
Installation Support - If you need assistance we are there for you.

I guess the idea is replace the jets with the kit and also drill the jets (if neccesary) with drill bits included--plus you can drill the stock airbox/exhaust with the included drill bits and Im wondering if this is any good or worth it?

Im thinking I would maybe be better off just getting my own drill bits and my own jet kit if I do go the route of the Sigma6 kit mods but the Sigma6 kit does come with instructions and it is all supposedly cutom measured and all to fit the Vader

Would not waste time modifying the OEM/Factory carb. Just get a Mikuni VM22 carb and jet as needed. You can buy Mikuni jets on tons of sites and no need to drill anything.

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

The cc improvement may not be much, but my guess is the new cylinder race head makes more of an improvement than the bore. It comes with a more aggressively timed cam and roller rocker arms so it revs up much quicker. Also, the piston that comes with the big bore kit has much higher compression than the stock one; it has a more convex shape to it. There's not much more room for a larger bore due to the rods holding the cylinder and head in place. The steel lining of the cylinder it pretty much touching the rods with this kit so I couldn't imagine any larger big bore kits for this engine.

I really appreciate your original post on this subject, as well as additional info and replies to my wuestions so far on this thread--so thanks for all that!!

I may have been a little harsh when calling the stock Vader carb complete junk because mine actually does work, but it is probably on the small side of what could be placed on an engine this size, especially as you add performance parts sucj as free flow exhaust etc., and the stock carb is jetted way towards lean for emissions purposes. Other than that the only problems I have had remotely with the stock carb is maybe also like you said with the choke not seeming to do much plus I get intermittent fuel delivery issues that actually seem to be getting better as the breaki-in progresses and the bike gets some more miles--but the fuel delivery problems I'm having seem to be something to do with the emissions system since if I suck air out of the vent that comes out near the right handlebar after the bike stalls or is having a start issue due to lean fuel delivery-- then the fuel delivery goes back to fine and that may be due to a faulty emissions valve or crimped emissions line somewhere--so Im not sure that has anything to directly do with the carb.--just thought I would throw that little update to say Maybe the factory carb was just made to pass emissions and isn't Quite as shitty as I originally stated.

Anyhow, I wrote Tbolt a lengthy message including asking if I can use their "146cc" kit, like you linked above, just by itself and then do things like add a head or cam or exhaust later and all Tbolt said back was that they understand their big bore kit part number: TBW9067 "146cc" does fit my Vader. and that's all they said even though I asked a lot more.

I'm still wondering if I can get just the big bore piston/cylinder/ring/gaskets and install that by itself and put on more performance parts later...? Or is that a bad idea for reasons like I don't know maybe it's bad for reliability? Do you also need a bigger head at the same time? I do understand that adding a better head would make it perform better but is it really needed to be put on at the same time as the Big Bore puston/cylinder if you're on a budget or if you want to do one mod at a time to see what that mod does to your performance by itself.... Or would i be screwing myself over and breaking my engine by putting on only the BBK piston/cylinder by itself?

The kit you said you put on looks sweet--but it's also wha?-- $549??!! whereas just the piston and cylinder part of the same Big Bore Kit that you linked above and I just mentioned the part number of the 141cc kit is only $149!! -- a full $400 more for the kit you installed that gains you mostly the race head, but also a cam complete with the new timing sprocket and new rocker arms and new covers and new bolts and even the alan key wrenches to piece the new head on... Which raises another wuestion--could I get a similarly performing head and camshaft for less than $400? I mean don't get me wrong, the $549 kit looks sweet, seems like it fits and the new head works with the new cylinder/piston with complaints that I have seen...BUT at the price of $549 I start thinking MAYBE going with a larger, faster crate engine with more torque and horsepower, whether new or used, is starting to look better than the expensive bore kit for that price. Im thinking if I can find a decent head and cam for $150 OR less to add to the $150 BBK cylinder/piston--THEN the Big Bore Kit still looks attractive to me, still lets me tinker with my bike and still lets me say I had more of a hand in upgrading my bike than just dropping in a crate engine--In My Dumb Little Opinion.

Does anyone know of a more reasonably priced head and/or cam for the Boom Vader to compliment going with the TBolt BBK that's listed "141" or "146"ccs?

Also does anyone have any knowledge of other engines that will fit the Vader as an easy or direct bolt on engine upgrade other than the z190 that seems to be common on here? just wondering, and I would like any suggestions but specifically i am wondering about something on the cheap because this Vader was always meant to be something of a cheap project where i get a new, light, bike that's meant to be worked on and upgraded instead of just getting a ready to go used Ninja 250cc for the same price--that's what the Vader is for me

& As always, have fun, and ride safe!

[sirmaxwell]

Originally Posted by Themanoz

One of the first things I changed on this bike is the carb. The choke sucked and was way too small to get any decent power out of it. This is the one I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a replica of the Mikuni vm26, so if you wanna buy the genuine Mikuni go ahead. This carb works good though. Only complaint that the fuel/air screw is a little difficult to reach when its mounted on the engine. The idle screw is fine. You have to remove the EGR system to put this carb on as well as plug a hole in the stock cylinder head from this system. However, if you buy that race head then you wont have to worry about that Also, I don't think California inspects motorcycles? There's no smog test for motorcycles so I'm assuming there's no visual inspection on them either. So I ripped off all my emissions stuff and gutted my cat on the exhaust and welded on an aftermarket muffler haha

Nice upgrades! I am thinking of doing a carb upgrade as one of my next mods, although I’m not sure if I should go Mikuni style VM22 or keep the PZ style and go with a “PZ26”— I think those two have the same or similar inner diameter openings from the airbox and to the engine. I also looked up the bolt holes on the engine side of a PZ26 clone carb and I think it has the same bolt spacing as the stock PZ20 or within 1 mm of it, depending on which clone I looked at, which makes me wonder if maybe I can use the aftermarket carb with an engine side 26mm inner diameter with the stock intake boot since the bolt holes appear to line up, just not sure if the inner diameter of the intake boot is a lot smaller or too small to properly match up with the new carb or not —-so can I use the stock intake boot that goes between the carb and engine with either the VM22 Mikuni clone or with the PZ26 clone? OR Do I have to get an intake boot also? And I think the airbox side of the aftermarket carbs will be at least 6mm larger than stock SO Do I also need a new air filter? OR Can I use a coupler to fit the new carb to the airbox?— OR am I better off just getting a new carb with a new intake boot and a new air filter?

also the VM22 Mikuni Clone carbs also have the 47mm to 48mm bolt hole spacing to attach to the engine intake boot. Has anyone tried to install the VM22 with the stock intake boot?--OR is this a bad idea?

I know that I will have to get rid of at least part of the emissions when installing a new carb, including there is something, some air hose that attached into the side of the engine intake boot I believe, but I'm assuming if I reuse the stock intake boot I COULD just cap off the nipple on the intake boot since I won't be re-attaching the air line to it