Nothing is as easy as it looks in the video

Hawks & Turkeys · 10-30-2024, 10:28 PM

Hey my 2024 Hawk (with carb) is at 500 miles and my chain has stretched to the point that its pretty loose. Like probably not safe loose. So here I go, watching videos on chain tightening, ordering 17 and 19mm heavy duty sockets to work the axle bolt and nut, and...that damn axle bolt did not want to come loose. It had to be sealed up with Loctite. They may as well have used cement.

Ok, so after beating the socket wrench with a hammer (sorry - its the military guy in me) I get the axle nut loose and loosen the adjusting nuts on the swing arms. And I'm following the advice in the videos to set a tape measure alongside the chain and doing my best to line up the wheel with the measuring lines and keeping everything in alignment, and doing my best to pull the wheel back to tighten the chain to just the right tension and gently tighten the adjusting nuts...

And every time I tighten the axle bolt, it rides back on itself and tightens the chain to some impossibly tight tension.

It took a Google search and one obscure video to learn about the tension of tightening the rear wheel axle. Some videos recommended tightening the tension nuts in the swing arms first. Another video recommended tightening the axle bolt first, then adjusting the swing arm adjusters.

Well, I finally got it - I found a tension I could live with that wasn't super tight. I never did find the recommended tension of an inch and 1/4, but I found a tension that wasn't crazy tight and didn't look like it would snap the chain (there's videos of chain snaps out there. They don't look like something I want to have happen).

And guess what - I just completed the chain adjustment yesterday and took the bike for a gentle ride around the area to test it. And when I got back home after riding like a mile? The chain had already stretched out to: about an inch and a quarter. Go figure.

I'm out.

tknj99 · 10-30-2024, 10:35 PM

buy a quality chain off Amazon/Ebay, ideally o-ring or x-ring (even better) and you wont have nearly as much stretching going on

bigdano711 · 10-31-2024, 07:24 AM

You watched the wrong video.

Crossbar · 10-31-2024, 08:10 AM

I'll find on my Templar that the tension will change depending upon the rotational position of the sprockets. It may seem loose at first but, when rotating the wheel, the tension changes in certain spots. Not sure why it does that, sprockets seem clean, no binding links in chain, sprockets don't seem out of round... Just something to keep in mind.

bigdano711 · 10-31-2024, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbar

I'll find on my Templar that the tension will change depending upon the rotational position of the sprockets. It may seem loose at first but, when rotating the wheel, the tension changes in certain spots. Not sure why it does that, sprockets seem clean, no binding links in chain, sprockets don't seem out of round... Just something to keep in mind.

Replace your chain.

J4Fun · 10-31-2024, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbar

I'll find on my Templar that the tension will change depending upon the rotational position of the sprockets. It may seem loose at first but, when rotating the wheel, the tension changes in certain spots. Not sure why it does that, sprockets seem clean, no binding links in chain, sprockets don't seem out of round... Just something to keep in mind.

This is a observation that most don’t get. I brought up the point that this happened on my XPRO 150 DLX. There is no doubt to me that the sprocket has oversized holes for the bolts. There is no taper washer for centering. Just thought I would bring this up because the bikes share the same type rear end. There not the same as my Hawk DLX that uses the cush system and circlip. Just thinking out loud here.

Aussie_in_MO · 10-31-2024, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbar

I'll find on my Templar that the tension will change depending upon the rotational position of the sprockets. It may seem loose at first but, when rotating the wheel, the tension changes in certain spots. Not sure why it does that, sprockets seem clean, no binding links in chain, sprockets don't seem out of round... Just something to keep in mind.

Chain stretch isn't always equally distributed throughout the chain. Hard acceleration will stretch the part that's under tension but not the slack side.

**cheesy** · 10-31-2024, 09:35 AM

This is why mechanics drink.

And why my main rides are shafties or friction drive.

The chain being tight in one spot and loose in another is because the sprockets are not concentric. None of them are. IIRC they can be out of round by as much as .020". If both are out by that much, you are looking at .040" in one spot. Throw in a cheap or worn chain and you'll be bald like me. So, you shoot for a compromise in chain adjustment, aka, good enough. And go ride.

Hebbe · 10-31-2024, 11:34 AM

I loosened the axle bolt, adjusted the chain to the proper amount of slack. then stuck a rag in the rear sprocket while I tightened up the axle pulled the rag loose and everything stayed where it should be.

wally · 10-31-2024, 04:30 PM

Does the 2024 Hawk still have the box-style swingarm?

If it does, it is very easy to overtorque the axle nut and being to collapse the box section. That will throw off the tension.

Besides that my solution to not having 4 hands is to jack up the bike and use something under the tire to help hold it in place, usually a 2x4 or a wheel chock if i have it higher up. Then I get the wheel roughly where I want it, get the axle barely snugged up, and use the adjusters to start to tension the chain.

I am still on the stock chain at around 3k miles and it is about done, getting very stretched. Only put 2 or 300 miles on it with the stock sprocket.

Edit: change 2021 to 2024

Hawks & Turkeys · 10-31-2024, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally

Does the 2024 Hawk still have the box-style swingarm?

If it does, it is very easy to overtorque the axle nut and being to collapse the box section. That will throw off the tension.

Besides that my solution to not having 4 hands is to jack up the bike and use something under the tire to help hold it in place, usually a 2x4 or a wheel chock if i have it higher up. Then I get the wheel roughly where I want it, get the axle barely snugged up, and use the adjusters to start to tension the chain.

I am still on the stock chain at around 3k miles and it is about done, getting very stretched. Only put 2 or 300 miles on it with the stock sprocket.

Edit: change 2021 to 2024

The lesson of your reply is that there are too many moving parts to keep in sync. And we haven't even talked about the alignment of the wheel and the chain. Every video makes a big deal about chain and wheel alignment, while relying on the **vague** swing arm markings and, maybe, some sort of laser alignment thing.

rideoutadv · 10-31-2024, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawks & Turkeys

Hey my 2024 Hawk (with carb) is at 500 miles and my chain has stretched to the point that its pretty loose. Like probably not safe loose. So here I go, watching videos on chain tightening, ordering 17 and 19mm heavy duty sockets to work the axle bolt and nut, and...that damn axle bolt did not want to come loose. It had to be sealed up with Loctite. They may as well have used cement.

Ok, so after beating the socket wrench with a hammer (sorry - its the military guy in me) I get the axle nut loose and loosen the adjusting nuts on the swing arms. And I'm following the advice in the videos to set a tape measure alongside the chain and doing my best to line up the wheel with the measuring lines and keeping everything in alignment, and doing my best to pull the wheel back to tighten the chain to just the right tension and gently tighten the adjusting nuts...

And every time I tighten the axle bolt, it rides back on itself and tightens the chain to some impossibly tight tension.

My newest process is what revzilla recommends: crack the axle nut (I grab both and twist them opposite ways to avoid hammering/breaker barring), do your chain adjustment being careful to keep things even on each side, when I'm happy with the chain tension, stick a rag in the chain by the rear sprocket, roll the rag up into the rear sprocket, then tighten the axle nut, remove rag. I'm on the stock chain on my lifan at 3K miles, and this technique has made my chain adjustments last double as long.

Hawks & Turkeys · 11-14-2024, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rideoutadv

My newest process is what revzilla recommends: crack the axle nut (I grab both and twist them opposite ways to avoid hammering/breaker barring), do your chain adjustment being careful to keep things even on each side, when I'm happy with the chain tension, stick a rag in the chain by the rear sprocket, roll the rag up into the rear sprocket, then tighten the axle nut, remove rag. I'm on the stock chain on my lifan at 3K miles, and this technique has made my chain adjustments last double as long.

I saw a couple videos with mechanics inserting rags, wrenches, into the chain, and you yourself proved that it works. But I'm not a natural born mechanic - just a "watch some videos, come up with a plan, dive in and do the work and modify the plan and get through it" mechanic. Point being, I really try to not make things worse, and jamming a rag, or a wrench (a wrench?

) just sounds like a jammed rag or "wrench causing broken chain" waiting to happen.

Crossbar · 10-31-2024, 09:48 PM

@Aussie, that could be what's happening. I ran the stock sprocks and chain for about 1500 miles and noticed the uneven tension worse then. I switched to JT sprockets and a DID o-ring and the tension change was gone when I first installed. Started noticing the tension change came back (not near as bad) after about 500 miles on the new one.

wally · 11-08-2024, 11:56 AM

There is a knack to it for sure. Especially on an ultra budget chinese motorcycle. The old Hawks have the most primitive tensioning you can have besides just not having adjusters at all. The markings on the swingarm are only useful for telling if it has moved, mine never line up from side to side when the wheel is centered.

Having someone to hold the wheel in place helps alot.

Keeping the tire aligned to the bike is important but you don't need lasers. Just kind of have to eyeball the wheel against the bike. The adjusters can give you a clue if one is way further in or out than the other.

But you'll know if the alignment is too far off as soon as you start riding.

10-30-2024, 10:28 PM	#1
Hawks & Turkeys Join Date: May 2024 Location: US Gulf Coast Posts: 33	Nothing is as easy as it looks in the video Hey my 2024 Hawk (with carb) is at 500 miles and my chain has stretched to the point that its pretty loose. Like probably not safe loose. So here I go, watching videos on chain tightening, ordering 17 and 19mm heavy duty sockets to work the axle bolt and nut, and...that damn axle bolt did not want to come loose. It had to be sealed up with Loctite. They may as well have used cement. Ok, so after beating the socket wrench with a hammer (sorry - its the military guy in me) I get the axle nut loose and loosen the adjusting nuts on the swing arms. And I'm following the advice in the videos to set a tape measure alongside the chain and doing my best to line up the wheel with the measuring lines and keeping everything in alignment, and doing my best to pull the wheel back to tighten the chain to just the right tension and gently tighten the adjusting nuts... And every time I tighten the axle bolt, it rides back on itself and tightens the chain to some impossibly tight tension. It took a Google search and one obscure video to learn about the tension of tightening the rear wheel axle. Some videos recommended tightening the tension nuts in the swing arms first. Another video recommended tightening the axle bolt first, then adjusting the swing arm adjusters. Well, I finally got it - I found a tension I could live with that wasn't super tight. I never did find the recommended tension of an inch and 1/4, but I found a tension that wasn't crazy tight and didn't look like it would snap the chain (there's videos of chain snaps out there. They don't look like something I want to have happen). And guess what - I just completed the chain adjustment yesterday and took the bike for a gentle ride around the area to test it. And when I got back home after riding like a mile? The chain had already stretched out to: about an inch and a quarter. Go figure. I'm out.
	0

10-30-2024, 10:35 PM	#2
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,303	buy a quality chain off Amazon/Ebay, ideally o-ring or x-ring (even better) and you wont have nearly as much stretching going on __________________ 2024 Templar 250 2021 Beta 500 RRS 2018 VStrom 1000 XT Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X, Storm DLX 150
	1

10-31-2024, 07:24 AM	#3
bigdano711 Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: Big Piney, WY Posts: 626	You watched the wrong video. __________________ 2023 Hawk 250 from XPRO off of Amazon MOUNTAIN MAN RC + MOTO on YouTube "If there were more bloody noses, there would be less wars." - Hagbard Celine John 2:15 So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; He scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
	2

10-31-2024, 09:35 AM	#8
cheesy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Elburn, IL Posts: 5,995	This is why mechanics drink. And why my main rides are shafties or friction drive. The chain being tight in one spot and loose in another is because the sprockets are not concentric. None of them are. IIRC they can be out of round by as much as .020". If both are out by that much, you are looking at .040" in one spot. Throw in a cheap or worn chain and you'll be bald like me. So, you shoot for a compromise in chain adjustment, aka, good enough. And go ride. __________________ Cheesy ______________________________________ 07 Hi Bird Enduro-Flown the Coop 07 Ural Gear Up 79 Honda CX500 77 VeloSolex 4600 V3 73 VeloSolex 3800 I'm making this up as I go.-Indiana Jones Telling me something 'is for my own good', is a fast way to a fat lip.-Me I don't even care about my own problems, why should I care about yours?-Quote on one of my favorite t-shirts
	4

10-31-2024, 04:30 PM	#10
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 55	Does the 2024 Hawk still have the box-style swingarm? If it does, it is very easy to overtorque the axle nut and being to collapse the box section. That will throw off the tension. Besides that my solution to not having 4 hands is to jack up the bike and use something under the tire to help hold it in place, usually a 2x4 or a wheel chock if i have it higher up. Then I get the wheel roughly where I want it, get the axle barely snugged up, and use the adjusters to start to tension the chain. I am still on the stock chain at around 3k miles and it is about done, getting very stretched. Only put 2 or 300 miles on it with the stock sprocket. Edit: change 2021 to 2024 Last edited by wally; 10-31-2024 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Edit: change 2021 to 2024
	1

10-31-2024, 08:10 AM	#4
Crossbar Join Date: Jun 2024 Posts: 85	I'll find on my Templar that the tension will change depending upon the rotational position of the sprockets. It may seem loose at first but, when rotating the wheel, the tension changes in certain spots. Not sure why it does that, sprockets seem clean, no binding links in chain, sprockets don't seem out of round... Just something to keep in mind.
	2

10-31-2024, 11:34 AM	#9
Hebbe Join Date: Sep 2024 Location: Texas Posts: 18	I loosened the axle bolt, adjusted the chain to the proper amount of slack. then stuck a rag in the rear sprocket while I tightened up the axle pulled the rag loose and everything stayed where it should be.
	4

10-31-2024, 09:48 PM	#14
Crossbar Join Date: Jun 2024 Posts: 85	@Aussie, that could be what's happening. I ran the stock sprocks and chain for about 1500 miles and noticed the uneven tension worse then. I switched to JT sprockets and a DID o-ring and the tension change was gone when I first installed. Started noticing the tension change came back (not near as bad) after about 500 miles on the new one.
	1

11-08-2024, 11:56 AM	#15
wally Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 55	There is a knack to it for sure. Especially on an ultra budget chinese motorcycle. The old Hawks have the most primitive tensioning you can have besides just not having adjusters at all. The markings on the swingarm are only useful for telling if it has moved, mine never line up from side to side when the wheel is centered. Having someone to hold the wheel in place helps alot. Keeping the tire aligned to the bike is important but you don't need lasers. Just kind of have to eyeball the wheel against the bike. The adjusters can give you a clue if one is way further in or out than the other. But you'll know if the alignment is too far off as soon as you start riding.
	0