Brand new Hawk 250 Starter Effed up

[N7sithis]

Hey all, just got my first bike ever, the normal carbed Hawk 250, finished building it last night (Besides the front Axle nut which was completely missing on arrival)

FIXED.



So today I decided to try and start it for the first time after changing the oil.
But this happens;
https://youtube.com/shorts/ngGMhuWi4MQ

Sorry, ignore Hasan Piker in the background.

The starter seems to be constantly firing as soon as I turn the ignition. at NO POINT in this video did I EVER touch the start button. The battery is fully charged and all the lights and such work fine and nice and bright UNTIL I plug the starter into the start / kill switch on the handlebars, at which point the starter starts seizing out and all the lights dim/flash.
As can be seen in the video the plug has electrical burning around it as well.

Also anytime the starter switch is plugged in all my lights are super dim and acts like the battery is dying, soon as I unplug it all lights are back to 100%

Not sure if it's related but I can't get it to kick start either, even with the starter switch unplugged, will it not start if it can't read the kill/run switch?
I got it to start once for a few seconds and it died immediately. Haven't been able to get it to start since.

Does this point to a bad starter, a bad run/kill/start switch, or both?

[buzz]

Sounds like to me a shorted out starter switch,and you should be able to use kick starter. dose it turn motor over when trying to kick?

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by buzz

Sounds like to me a shorted out starter switch,and you should be able to use kick starter. dose it turn motor over when trying to kick?

Yes, I've actually got it to start twice now, but it quickly dies within a few seconds.
I took the battery off and threw it on the charger, seems to be dead from the starter firing over and over.

Does the battery need a good charge to kick start? No, right? I'm new to bikes but kick starting seems like popping the clutch on a manual car....should be able to do it with a dead battery, right?

[Thumper]

Starter solenoid stuck maybe? That would bypass the starter button/switch

When it started, I wonder if the starter motor never disengaged? That would suggest solenoid as well.

If you have a voltmeter, see if the solenoid gets signal (12V) on the thin red wire from the starter button ONLY when you press the button. If so, the solenoid might be stuck on.

[N7sithis]

It was the starter switch, I took it apart, seperated all the wires and plugged it back in, bike started right up.

It didn't really wanna stay started. I revved it for a few minutes and now it seems to idle without dying.

Now I just need the axle bolt, I've read it's a 17mm nut, can anyone confirm this? Know if any parts stores would carry it locally?

[Texas Pete]

It is normal for carburetor vehicle engines to need to be choked and/or a little touch of throttle held down for the first few minutes until the motor warms up.


The cold intakes on the motor cool the atomized fuel which sticks to the intakes instead of flowing into the combustion chamber. This means you don't have the correct amount of fuel, the mixture is lean. This is why you have choke to add more fuel into the intakes to account for the cooled atomized droplets that stick and don't make it through.


As the engine warms up it heats up the intakes and eventually anything attached to the engine like the carburetor etc. Then the bike will be running at its normal richer fueling state and you can now set your intiial idle speed screw to the temperature the motor has reached which will be close to running.


You will need to likely have to readjust the idle speed after you get it on the road for the first few rides as it will be at a different temperature to just sitting still in your garage or whever it is stored.

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

It is normal for carburetor vehicle engines to need to be choked and/or a little touch of throttle held down for the first few minutes until the motor warms up.


The cold intakes on the motor cool the atomized fuel which sticks to the intakes instead of flowing into the combustion chamber. This means you don't have the correct amount of fuel, the mixture is lean. This is why you have choke to add more fuel into the intakes to account for the cooled atomized droplets that stick and don't make it through.


As the engine warms up it heats up the intake maniforld and eventually anything attached to the engine like the carburetor etc. Then the bike will be running at its normal richer fueling state and you can now set your intiial idle speed screw to the temperature the motor has reached which will be close to running.


You will need to likely have to readjust the idle speed after you get it on the road for the first few rides as it will be at a different temperature to just sitting still in your garage or whever it is stored.

You wouldn't happen to have a video link explaining this handy?

I thought the stock carb was "tamper proof" so I assumed it was not adjustable.

My dumbass doesn't even know where the choke is on this thing? I've only used a choke on my riding mower before.

[Texas Pete]

Originally Posted by N7sithis

You wouldn't happen to have a video link explaining this handy?

I thought the stock carb was "tamper proof" so I assumed it was not adjustable.

My dumbass doesn't even know where the choke is on this thing? I've only used a choke on my riding mower before.

This might help you get a full china bike orientation including a typical carburetor.

Most carbs have choke and idle speed screw on them. Only the pilot screw is usually hidden behind a plug that needs to be removed to get access to full tuning capabilities.

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by Texas Pete

This might help you get a full china bike orientation including a typical carburetor.

Most carbs have choke and idle speed screw on them. Only the pilot screw is usually hidden behind a plug that needs to be removed to get access to full tuning capabilities.

Nice! Thanks! I actually looked up a vid on the carb and explains some of why my starting was so difficult. Stock the carb was set right in the middle. Can't wait to get it dialed in tomorrow.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by N7sithis

You wouldn't happen to have a video link explaining this handy?

I thought the stock carb was "tamper proof" so I assumed it was not adjustable.

My dumbass doesn't even know where the choke is on this thing? I've only used a choke on my riding mower before.

The choke is a black lever on the left side of the carb (as you are sitting on the bike). It's a bit of a weird location as you have to reach up under the fuel tank a bit to get to it.

The stock carbs have Tamper Proof screws that hold the bowl on and a cap over the idle mixture. There are two ways to solve this issue.

First method - using a dremel tool or a hacksaw blade you cut a slot in the center of the bowl screws so that you can use a flat-blade screw driver to remove them. This gives you access to the jets and floats. Then you can tune the main jet (pilot is bespoke and not easily changed but is usually sufficient anyway). The cap needs to be removed from over he idle mixture. Removing this cap is necessary in order to adjust said idle mixture.

For anybody that lives at lower altitudes the stock main jet and idle mixture are both lean. This is part of the reason why it has such a hard time cold starting. A 105 main jet and 1 1\2 turns out on the idle mixture is generally a good starting setup that can be tweaked a bit if needed.

The downside to the stock carb is that the needle is not adjustable. Usually they need a shim to get the mid range fueling dialed in a bit better.

Second method - get a whole new carb from Amazon. Like the stock carb it will need jets and the idle mixture set. Luckily for you there is enough collective knowledge here to get you setup and running fairly well with maybe a small adjustment needed for your specific bike and climate. I am personally a big fan of the Mikuni clone VM26 "30mm" (looks similar but has 4 bowl screws and usually use mikuni jets). I like them over the PZ30 just from my own experience of just how well the engine runs and rides through a wider range of atmospheric changes. It has a lot to do with how Mikuni jets operate than anything about the carb itself. Another PZ30 would also work. Either will come with an adjustable needle.

First method - requires a little more work but is much cheaper (a couple of jets and a shim for the needle). 5-10 bucks and some of your time.

Second method - requires a bit more money. New carb and a few different jets of both types. 40-50 bucks.

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The choke is a black lever on the left side of the carb (as you are sitting on the bike). It's a bit of a weird location as you have to reach up under the fuel tank a bit to get to it.

The stock carbs have Tamper Proof screws that hold the bowl on and a cap over the idle mixture. There are two ways to solve this issue.

First method - using a dremel tool or a hacksaw blade you cut a slot in the center of the bowl screws so that you can use a flat-blade screw driver to remove them. This gives you access to the jets and floats. Then you can tune the main jet (pilot is bespoke and not easily changed but is usually sufficient anyway). The cap needs to be removed from over he idle mixture. Removing this cap is necessary in order to adjust said idle mixture.

For anybody that lives at lower altitudes the stock main jet and idle mixture are both lean. This is part of the reason why it has such a hard time cold starting. A 105 main jet and 1 1\2 turns out on the idle mixture is generally a good starting setup that can be tweaked a bit if needed.

The downside to the stock carb is that the needle is not adjustable. Usually they need a shim to get the mid range fueling dialed in a bit better.

Second method - get a whole new carb from Amazon. Like the stock carb it will need jets and the idle mixture set. Luckily for you there is enough collective knowledge here to get you setup and running fairly well with maybe a small adjustment needed for your specific bike and climate. I am personally a big fan of the Mikuni clone VM26 "30mm" (looks similar but has 4 bowl screws and usually use mikuni jets). I like them over the PZ30 just from my own experience of just how well the engine runs and rides through a wider range of atmospheric changes. It has a lot to do with how Mikuni jets operate than anything about the carb itself. Another PZ30 would also work. Either will come with an adjustable needle.

First method - requires a little more work but is much cheaper (a couple of jets and a shim for the needle). 5-10 bucks and some of your time.

Second method - requires a bit more money. New carb and a few different jets of both types. 40-50 bucks.

Eeeyyy! The hawk 250 google guy! Half the stuff I google about the Hawk leads to one of your posts. I need your help. What's the specs on the Front axle nut? I know it's a 17mm Socket, flange nut, but I bought one of those and it does not fit, do you know the thread size?

Thanks for the info! I think I've read part of this before, on your "Hawk 250 Resource and Information guide." I actually planned on ditching the stock carb pretty quickly in favor of a more performance oriented one. Guess I'll have to adjust the stock one in the meantime.

[Megadan]

The only thing I know for sure is that it will be an M12 nut. I don't remember the thread pitch off hand.

My 2 cents here for what it's worth but save your money on the performance carbs until you get into more advanced upgrades. A well tuned factory sized carb is plenty capable of supporting the airflow of most basic bolt ons and even performs well with a ported head. It will also generally stay in tune better and get better fuel mileage if you have it dialed in really well. My first Hawk ran around on a VM26 clone with bolt ons and could touch 70mph with my big butt in the saddle (17/45 sprockets) and would get over 70mpg cruising along at 45-55mph.

If you just have to have the shiny fancy carbs then go for the PE28FL.

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The only thing I know for sure is that it will be an M12 nut. I don't remember the thread pitch off hand.

My 2 cents here for what it's worth but save your money on the performance carbs until you get into more advanced upgrades. A well tuned factory sized carb is plenty capable of supporting the airflow of most basic bolt ons and even performs well with a ported head. It will also generally stay in tune better and get better fuel mileage if you have it dialed in really well. My first Hawk ran around on a VM26 clone with bolt ons and could touch 70mph with my big butt in the saddle (17/45 sprockets) and would get over 70mpg cruising along at 45-55mph.

If you just have to have the shiny fancy carbs then go for the PE28FL.

Oh Okay, I have a M12 1.75 and it won't fit. Must be a 1.25 or 1.50? I don't understand metric lol I might just remove the front tire and take the bolt into town tomorrow, apparently I should have the nut on the left side anyway, and right now I have the nonexistent nut on the right side.

I also asked X-pro whom I bought it from, we'll see if they reply soon.

What exactly are "advanced upgrades"?
I already ordered a chain and 17/45 sprockets
Planned on ordering the carb/air filter/exhaust all at once soon as I'm comfortable on the bike.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by N7sithis

Oh Okay, I have a M12 1.75 and it won't fit. Must be a 1.25 or 1.50? I don't understand metric lol I might just remove the front tire and take the bolt into town tomorrow, apparently I should have the nut on the left side anyway, and right now I have the nonexistent nut on the right side.

I also asked X-pro whom I bought it from, we'll see if they reply soon.

What exactly are "advanced upgrades"?
I already ordered a chain and 17/45 sprockets
Planned on ordering the carb/air filter/exhaust all at once soon as I'm comfortable on the bike.

1.25 sounds right to my brain but I cannot confirm for sure. Metric is relatively easy. The metric thread pitch is the distance between the threads in mm. 1.25 = 1.25mm 1.75 = 1.75mm and so on. In theory you could actually measure the thread peaks with a pair of calipers and determine the pitch that way.

You do want the nut on the left side ideally. The reasoning is that all of the resistance being applied to the axle shaft is turning the axle "righty tighty" which can help keep the nut from coming too loose if it does happen to loosen slightly.

When you get a new nut (preferably a flanged stover nut but even a regular flanged nut will be fine) torque to 30-35ft-lbs and use some blue loctite.

"Advanced Upgrades" - ported head and camshaft. Aka more than just a bolt on exhaust and filter upgrades.

[N7sithis]

Originally Posted by Megadan

1.25 sounds right to my brain but I cannot confirm for sure. Metric is relatively easy. The metric thread pitch is the distance between the threads in mm. 1.25 = 1.25mm 1.75 = 1.75mm and so on. In theory you could actually measure the thread peaks with a pair of calipers and determine the pitch that way.

You do want the nut on the left side ideally. The reasoning is that all of the resistance being applied to the axle shaft is turning the axle "righty tighty" which can help keep the nut from coming too loose if it does happen to loosen slightly.

When you get a new nut (preferably a flanged stover nut but even a regular flanged nut will be fine) torque to 30-35ft-lbs and use some blue loctite.

"Advanced Upgrades" - ported head and camshaft. Aka more than just a bolt on exhaust and filter upgrades.

You are correct, it's a M12 1.25, I bought a "locking nut" and a regular and for some reason the locking will only thread on about halfway and gets stuck. I threw the regular nut on the left side with a lockwasher and blue threadlocker, I'm going to order a flanged one. I could not find one locally. Should I avoid riding it all together? I was going to just cruise around the farm I live on and stay around 25mph or lower until the new nut gets here.

Oh okay, I've watched easily 10-15+ videos on the bike both before and after buying and no one has ever mentioned either of those upgrades lol. So you're saying I don't really need a performance carb until/if I do those?
I was planning on following this video:
Simply because it seemed easy enough and upgrades both the Carb and air filter nicely, for like $115 bucks. Would this carb be overkill with just sprockets, chain and exhaust upgraded?