Switching from 250cc to 600cc inline 4?

[Spooklorky]

Hi, Im looking to buy my first motorcycle but I've got a few questions to help narrow down what bike I should get. I plan to just ride for fun, I have a car to commute and I've always wanted a fast sports bike so my goal is to get enough experience riding on a beginner bike within a couple years to be able to buy a 600 cc inline 4 and not crash it instantly. I plan on taking a msf course this spring before I ride anything.

I have been eyeballing the amazon clone of the venom x22 efi superbike because its a cheap and convenient option that people seem satisfied with as a beginner bike. I have also been eyeballing the ninja 400 because it seems to be a very well rounded beginner sportsbike.

I know the venom x22 superbike makes like 17ish horsepower and the Kawasaki ninja 400 makes like 48 horsepower and they are both considered beginner bikes. I am mostly concerned about the jump from whatever "beginner" bike I get to a more advanced 600cc bike. I feel like the jump from the venom x22 to a 600cc might be too much but if I can save the $2000 difference between the venom and the ninja 400 for a bike that I plan on outgrowing within a couple years it might be worth it.

Does anyone have experience going from an underpowered sportsbike like the venom to a real deal sportsbike and if so do you think its worth paying more for a bigger beginner bike (or buying a used 2-4 year old beginner bike with more power) just so the change to a 600cc is less jarring?

I probably sound super cautious but I live in wisconsin so I've got like 5 months before I can even take a msf course and start riding so I just want to do a bunch of research and make the best decision I can for me.

Also sorry for the long essay

[tknj99]

I think its all a matter of control and respect and don't necessarily subscribe to the "i need to graduate from x before i can buy y type of bike" philosophy. My first street bike was a ZX11 and before that my experience was limited to dirt bikes and fast forward to 2 yrs ago i picked up a ZX14R.. and holy cow was that a nutty experience..
If anything you will never be able to use the full capability of any of the current 600+cc bikes anyway but it nice knowing the power is there if you need/want it vs grabbing all the throttle and then wishing it turned one more full revolution.
With all that being said.. make sure you know how to ride and ride well before getting a fast sportbike so you can get yourself out of trouble if you do get into it.

[Spooklorky]

Originally Posted by tknj99

I think its all a matter of control and respect and don't necessarily subscribe to the "i need to graduate from x before i can buy y type of bike" philosophy. My first street bike was a ZX11 and before that my experience was limited to dirt bikes and fast forward to 2 yrs ago i picked up a ZX14R.. and holy cow was that a nutty experience..
If anything you will never be able to use the full capability of any of the current 600+cc bikes anyway but it nice knowing the power is there if you need/want it vs grabbing all the throttle and then wishing it turned one more full revolution.
With all that being said.. make sure you know how to ride and ride well before getting a fast sportbike so you can get yourself out of trouble if you do get into it.

I just had another thought. You said you originally rode dirt bikes and I'm wondering how well the skills from riding those transferred to a street bike? Basically the only reason I want a beginner bike to learn the basic skills of motorcycles and after I feel I've learned enough id go straight to the big bikes and get rid of the beginner bike. If I were to get a enduro like the hawk 250 or the lifan x-pect and learn enough to feel more comfortable on a 600cc sportbike I probably wouldn't dump the x-pect or hawk because its still fun as a dirt bike.

The main thing would be can I learn on-road skills that would still apply to a sportbike from an enduro on the road?

I'm not hellbent on getting x bike to graduate the y bike but Ive never really ridden anything with 2 wheels and think its wise for me to have a bit of a stepping stone because of my lack of experience. I do feel like I'm really going to enjoy riding though as snowmobiling is one of my favorite winter activities.

[Boatguy]

I’m going to say that all of these bikes are beginner bikes.

The only difference with the 600 is it goes harder when you twist the throttle more, so don’t twist the throttle more. Until you’re ready.

Otherwise, the more “advanced” bikes will have better handling characteristics at beginner speeds.

The biggest issue will be dropping the bike. The more powerful the bike the heavier, so make sure you keep it centered and don’t let it get away from you at a stoplight or something and tip over.

But... if you have your heart set on buying 2 bikes instead of 1, the smaller one is fine. You’re just learning balance, road textures and conditions, getting comfortable on your first bike. I’d save money and get the final bike now. But the little cheap one is fine too.

None of this makes a real difference.

The only place a smaller bike really matters on road is in the practical part of a motorcycle test. They make you go slower than first gear on a sport bike around some cones in a parking lot, not testing your riding abilities AT ALL. But you can’t mess up. A heavy sport bike is a lot harder to do the test on. My friend used a borrowed scooter. Had it VERY easy compared to me on a sport bike.

[Amateur]

No. Sportbikes handle entirely different.

Buy a Kawasaki Ninja 650R. You will never regret it as a first bike.

[Spooklorky]

@Amateur
Im not sure if there is a huge difference but I was looking into the Kawasaki 650 (not the 650r) and I really liked what it had to offer. I like the fact that it was still a twin so it had a more predicable power curve for new riders but offered that little extra boost in power from the ninja 400 that may just leave me wanting a little bit more. The only problem is the extra 2 grand bump over the ninja 400 that I just don't know if I can justify if I end up getting rid of the bike within the next few years for something different. This is all super hypothetical though which is the frustrating part for me because I don't even know what ill end up liking, who knows maybe the ninja 650 is the perfect amount of performance for me and I wont want to upgrade but I really have no idea... I've just got stop thinking about it so much and get something with 2 wheels and an engine just so I can find out for myself

[Amateur]

I've worked with the 650r platform for over a decade. I've suggested it to so many riders I can't even remember. You don't have to buy a brand new one to get a great bike. The motor is perfectly balanced for a beginner to even a veteran rider and trust me, power can be added easily. It's a comfortable seating position with a sporty look, and can even be used for touring. It might become a second bike I doubt you'll ever want to sell it. Get one.

[franque]

I'd just get a used Versys/650R and call it a day. I would also take the MSF course before buying/riding anything.

To expound a bit more though:

While any bike *could* be a beginner bike, or even something that you could transfer into, from my experience, the 600 sportbikes are what killed the largest number of squids, because there is no respect for the power that they have. Additionally, since the 600 market is basically dead (and considering the people who usually buy them), you're not likely to find a bike that's in good shape.

For a "beginner" bike, I would get something that is powerful enough that you aren't tempted to immediately sell it after two months because you're "experienced". If you get something like the Ninja 400/650, you would have enough power to go on the highway, and theoretically enough power to lose your license in a flash.

A 600rr is likely far more power to weight than you've ever experienced, and is quite dangerous in inexperienced hands.

Personally, I wouldn't even own one, not because I couldn't handle the power, but because I wouldn't handle it responsibly. For me, I have the tendency to use all of the power available, and the speed doesn't scare me, so I know I'm either likely to end up losing my license, or a smear on the side of the road.

Trust me when I say that riding a small bike as fast as possible is 10,000 x more fun than riding some sort of sport bike and either losing your license, getting killed, or being uncomfortable because you can really only use 30% of the total power before one of the first two happen.

I've chosen to limit myself to around 50hp for those reasons, which for where I live/will live, that's more than I will ever need, even two-up

[Amateur]

Originally Posted by franque

I'd just get a used Versys/650R and call it a day. I would also take the MSF course before buying/riding anything.

To expound a bit more though:

While any bike *could* be a beginner bike, or even something that you could transfer into, from my experience, the 600 sportbikes are what killed the largest number of squids, because there is no respect for the power that they have. Additionally, since the 600 market is basically dead (and considering the people who usually buy them), you're not likely to find a bike that's in good shape.

For a "beginner" bike, I would get something that is powerful enough that you aren't tempted to immediately sell it after two months because you're "experienced". If you get something like the Ninja 400/650, you would have enough power to go on the highway, and theoretically enough power to lose your license in a flash.

A 600rr is likely far more power to weight than you've ever experienced, and is quite dangerous in inexperienced hands.

Personally, I wouldn't even own one, not because I couldn't handle the power, but because I wouldn't handle it responsibly. For me, I have the tendency to use all of the power available, and the speed doesn't scare me, so I know I'm either likely to end up losing my license, or a smear on the side of the road.

Trust me when I say that riding a small bike as fast as possible is 10,000 x more fun than riding some sort of sport bike and either losing your license, getting killed, or being uncomfortable because you can really only use 30% of the total power before one of the first two happen.

I've chosen to limit myself to around 50hp for those reasons, which for where I live/will live, that's more than I will ever need, even two-up

This is the kind of rider who gets to be an old rider. You either learn these things, or you might die

[TominMO]

Originally Posted by franque

Trust me when I say that riding a small bike as fast as possible is 10,000 x more fun than riding some sort of sport bike and either losing your license, getting killed, or being uncomfortable because you can really only use 30% of the total power before one of the first two happen.

I've chosen to limit myself to around 50hp for those reasons, which for where I live/will live, that's more than I will ever need, even two-up

OP, this is how I was thinking too. You can have loads of fun on a 400. It will be lighter and therefore more nimble, and 48 HP is plenty useful on the highway. You might decide that this is all you need/want.

[JerryHawk250]

The 400 can be a good beginners bike. Like others have stated. Respect the bikes power and don't be a squid. It will have more than enough power that will keep you satisfied for a few years. Even the 650 can be a good beginners bike. You can install the throttle restrictor screw on the Ninja 650 like they do in Australia which limits it to 40 hp until you get some experience on the bike. Although my Vulcan 650 has the same engine, i find the engine has way more power than i will ever need but not so much power that it will be uncontrollable. It's kind of the sweet spot on power.

[Falkon45]

Get the ninja 400 or 650 (the 650R isn't much different, honestly). You'll develop far more skills on the 400 over the 650, though, just because of the seating position. They both have more than enough power to keep you satisfied, unless you just want straight line speed. Also, figure out what you want to do with your bike. Having a 600 is cool, but they literally suck as a street bike. They're cramped and uncomfortable. They're underpowered until you get into the high end of the revs, then they rocket off into oblivion. Awesome track bikes, though, and you're in the perfect position for attacking the apexes. I suggest, if you want to move up later on down the line, but not planning on doing track days, look into a super naked or hyper naked at that point. They're at home on the street or track, comfortable, and make more power and torque than the 600 superbike, but not at much as a liter superbike.

Here's an example from me: I started out on an RC390. I rode it for about a year, and wanted to do some track days on it. Did a lot of spirited rides with friends, and at my experience level, could get around people at my same experience level who were on
600s and liter bikes through the twisties, because they were pretty scared of their bikes. I bumped up to a MT-10 a year later. It's a fun bike. Makes over 100 hp more than my RC390, and about 100 lbs heavier. I started my track days on that thing in July of 2020. I just made it to intermediate with N2 in August of this year. I probably would have learned more faster and gotten the bump faster in both N2 and Sportbike Track Time if I stayed on my 390. I spent so much time just being afraid of the bike. It would pick the front end up exiting out of turns and go wide, the throttle was choppy, and I had to get the ECU flashed to correct it, and throttle control was essentially my only concern, because the traction control had to save me way too many times. I'm now going back to my 390 as my track bike so I can develop more skills, and I have a 2000 ZX-7R to put those skill into practice on bigger bikes. I'm keeping the MT-10 for street hoonery.

Also, it's quite embarrassing getting passed by an R3 on your freaking liter bike.

The 400 will help you develop as a better sport rider faster. When you decided to move up to the 600, you'll just have to adjust to the riding position and power band. I DO NOT suggest a 600 as a street bike, though. Especially if you're in a heavy traffic area. You'll spend more time being mad you can't flog your bike around than actually enjoying the ride.

[Spooklorky]

@Falkon45
On the note of the rc390 how did you like the bike? I really like the way that bike looks and I know its ergonomics are less comfy for the road but I just think the bike is really really cool looking. The thing that made me shy away from the bike were people saying that it really struggled on roads in the 70+ mph range. Pretty much the only way to get around by me are the big 70+ mph roads and quite a few 55 mph "backroads". I don't really understand how the bike is "slower than the ninja" when they have very comparable specs except for the ktm only having 1 cylinder. How was your experience with the bike at higher speeds? Not necessarily track performance and handling but more of did the bike feel a little too underpowered for big roads?

[JerryHawk250]

Well you just narrowed down your choice of bikes. If you plan on 70+mph, you can scratch any China 250cc bike. Even though my X22R was capable of 75-80mph after mods, I wasn't super comfortable riding the interstate on windy days. Bike was too light and got pushed around easily at those speeds. It was more at home doing 55-70 mph on back roads.

Stick with the Ninja 400 or 650.

[Falkon45]

Originally Posted by Spooklorky

@Falkon45
On the note of the rc390 how did you like the bike? I really like the way that bike looks and I know its ergonomics are less comfy for the road but I just think the bike is really really cool looking. The thing that made me shy away from the bike were people saying that it really struggled on roads in the 70+ mph range. Pretty much the only way to get around by me are the big 70+ mph roads and quite a few 55 mph "backroads". I don't really understand how the bike is "slower than the ninja" when they have very comparable specs except for the ktm only having 1 cylinder. How was your experience with the bike at higher speeds? Not necessarily track performance and handling but more of did the bike feel a little too underpowered for big roads?

I actually enjoyed it. Depending on how the bike felt that day, I could hit between 107 and 110 top speeds. The ergos are the most aggressive of the starter bikes. Just slightly more upright, and foot pegs a little lower than an r1 and r6. You sat on top of the bike. But incredibly similar. I preferred that more than the ninja 400, which you sat more "in" the bike, and I didn't like the handlebars and foot pegs. I like to sit more aggressively, though. And I like really wide handlebars.

My friend's ninja 400 would walk me everyday of the week. She had about 2000 more RPM than my bike, and could keep pulling away, while I'm bouncing off the rev limiter at about 10k. The maintenance is a PITA for the 390, also. You HAVE to keep on top of it. It runs hot all the time, and you'll worry about if it's overheating or not. The QC in India was hit or miss. My 2017 didn't have the immediate head gasket issue, but it was there. I saw where one kid blew his head gasket a month after he bought the bike, on a group ride with him. His was a year newer than mine. I also had weird "ABS CAN BUS Failure" warnings a lot. I wouldn't get the 390 of any sort, unless you get the newer 2022 version, or one where someone has already had their head worked by the dealership. Hopefully, KTM got their crap together. lol.

The ninja 400 is honestly, the best beginner bike, just because of it's power, price, and cost of ownership. The aftermarket loves it, and it's a great all around bike. If you want to do more touring, look at the Z400. Bikes are pretty much identical mechanically, save for the fairings and handlebars.

Edit: As for highways, It's a very light bike. You can easily keep it at 90, no problem. I've made a 1 hour trip from SC to my house back in GA at those speeds. It's buzzy, because you're at the top of the RPM range. As with any light weight bike, wind is not your friend. It can power through head winds, but cross winds will move you everywhere. Semis aren't to be trifled with either. Don't hang out less than 3 car lengths behind them, and if you gonna pass, pass fast, because you will be pushed around. Other than that, a majority of my rides on the bike were on 55/60/70 mph highways. It handles them just fine.