Arc Welder Suggestions

yozalo · 11-20-2009, 03:20 PM

I am planning to buy a arc welder, I am planning to buy a welder at harbor freight which is in the USA since it is cheaper there. The arc welder which I am leaning towards is the: 120 Amp Arc Welder made by Chicago Electric Welding Systems.

Here is the link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98870

What do you think of it? Is it powerful enough to work on my atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust? Also, the another problem is that the voltage of the welder, since it is 230 volts. In my house all my outputs are 110v.

Reveeen · 11-20-2009, 04:09 PM

since it is cheaper there

You are mistaken. Price is never a consideration when buying a welding machine. Typically welding machines (welders) will last you a lifetime, and will continue to work long after you are not, working, that is. I still have (own) my first welder (Idealarc 250), and it still works as good as the day it was born, 35+ years on.

What you are looking at is not suitable for what you wish to weld (atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust), you wish to buy what is called a "Mig welder". A mig welder feeds wire (at a controlled speed) within a cloud of oxygen excluded gas to join metal. A mig welder likes to "live" in a clean, dry, environment, otherwise you will have trouble with it. The welder itself contains "consumables", tips, liners, and the like, that need replacing at regular intervals (the stuff wears as you use the welder). To assure a reliable source (or even the availability) of these "consumables" it is important to buy a machine from a "known" manufacturer (Miller, Hobart, Lincoln). You will get your "nicest" welds with an external gas source, this means tank rental, and refilling. Sometimes the amount of welding you want to do, or expect to do, does not merit the cost of a welder, and all the associated stuff, in this case it is far, far, cheaper to simply pay someone to do it.
I have a mig welder here, a thing called a Hobart 120, it's 20 years old, and works as good as the day I bought it.

If you do not wish to spend a lot, maybe Oxy-Acetylene welding would be more suitable for you.

Cal25 · 11-20-2009, 04:11 PM

I just read the data on the link you provided. It appears to me that it is dual voltage and can run at 115V. The amp rating at 115v is only 65 w a duty cycle of 15%. You would have to use the skinny rods.

I think it might work for what you want to do and would be something to learn with before spending bigger bucks on a more capable machine. I would practice a bit before doing the exhaust work. It can be tough welding thin metal with an ark welder but it can be done. I cut out the guts of my exhaust and welded back up with my arc welder. The weld still looks like slobber but has been fine for over a year.

Remember you are going to need a hood and some gloves. I would suggest an aoutomatic darkening hood if you can swing it. An angle grinder and chipping hammer are a must also.

Perhaps you could find a similar unit used on Craigslist for about half?
All in all I would be more inclined to encourage you than to discourage you.

suprf1y · 11-20-2009, 04:26 PM

Buy a good used single phase 220V arc welder. For what you're doing, a mig machine is the last thing you want. Too expensive, with high maintenance costs (wire/gas/tips, etc.) I have done lots of exhaust work with my arc welder. It was cheap new, has lasted me 25 yrs, and a box of rods is $20, and last forever. For an inexperienced welder, structural work with a mig machine is an accident waiting to happen. Stick to an arc welder.

yozalo · 11-20-2009, 05:57 PM

Yes, I want an arc welder since I do not want to buy tanks. The only reason I am getting an arc welder is because it does not use gas. It runs purely on electric.

The only problem with this arc welder is that the output is 240v. But, all the plugs in my house are 110v.

phil · 11-20-2009, 07:05 PM

i hope my advise doesnt start a big uproar but here it is i have more than a few welders. i make my living in the auto repair business. i have mig, tig arc, plasma cutters, for what you are asking heres my advice clarke makes a cheap spool gun type mig that works fair, yes price makes a diffrence, it runs flux core (no gas) tips are cheap, the wire is a little pricey but it will work and i assume your not going to use it that much. and i also guess you will only be using it on thin low stress stuff. on the other hand if you want to do 1st class work on thin stuff,or building up material to machine. (and i have done that its tuff, no pitts or imperfections) lincoln makes a the sp series, not to be confused with the superstores weld pac but thats another story.
the arc welders if you go that route unless your a welder you want a DC machine the AC are harder to keep from sticking and starting is harder but then i say mig with a flux core which is really a wire welder but thats another boring debate

yozalo · 11-20-2009, 07:43 PM

I was looking at the clarke and they seem to be going for $250. I'm looking for a welder under $150.

Weldangrind · 11-20-2009, 10:18 PM

Yozalo, as phil said, you can use a wire feed welder with what is called flux core wire. More on that in a moment.

With whatever electric welding method you choose, a gas shield is necessary to protect the molten puddle from contamination (mostly oxygen). With an arc welder, shielding gas is released from the rod as you weld, and a hard coating will be left on the bead that requires chipping with a special (but cheap) hammer.

What people refer to as MIG welding should be called wire feed welding in this discussion. A spool of wire inside the machine is turned by an electric motor as you squeeze the trigger. This wire is fed through a long hose and out of the tip of the gun in your hand. You can use a flux core wire that releases shielding gas as you weld, or you can use solid wire with a bottle of shielding gas (usually 75% Argon and 25% CO2). With a bottle of gas, it is released down the hose along with the wire that is fed from the spool.

The benefit to a bottle of gas is easy, clean welds with little smoke. If you use an arc welder or a wire feed welder with flux core wire, it will be very smoky. The benefit to flux core or arc welding is that it's easier to use outdoors in windy conditions. Bottled shielding gas tends to blow away in the wind, resulting in poor welds.

Arc welding is on the difficult end for a beginner. A flux core wire feed welder is much easier to operate, and you'll likely be happier with the results. If you're going to be welding outdoors, a flux core welder is a good choice.

As a bonus, you can buy a wire feed welder that can be set up for flux core or bottled gas. I recommend that you go to a neighbourhood welding shop and start asking questions. If they're well set up, you'll be able to try your hand at welding with their machines before buying anything. Even some Princess Auto locations have welding rooms for customers to try. In addition to Chinese machines, Princess also carries Lincoln.

yozalo · 11-20-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Yozalo, as phil said, you can use a wire feed welder with what is called flux core wire. More on that in a moment.

With whatever electric welding method you choose, a gas shield is necessary to protect the molten puddle from contamination (mostly oxygen). With an arc welder, shielding gas is released from the rod as you weld, and a hard coating will be left on the bead that requires chipping with a special (but cheap) hammer.

What people refer to as MIG welding should be called wire feed welding in this discussion. A spool of wire inside the machine is turned by an electric motor as you squeeze the trigger. This wire is fed through a long hose and out of the tip of the gun in your hand. You can use a flux core wire that releases shielding gas as you weld, or you can use solid wire with a bottle of shielding gas (usually 75% Argon and 25% CO2). With a bottle of gas, it is released down the hose along with the wire that is fed from the spool.

The benefit to a bottle of gas is easy, clean welds with little smoke. If you use an arc welder or a wire feed welder with flux core wire, it will be very smoky. The benefit to flux core or arc welding is that it's easier to use outdoors in windy conditions. Bottled shielding gas tends to blow away in the wind, resulting in poor welds.

Arc welding is on the difficult end for a beginner. A flux core wire feed welder is much easier to operate, and you'll likely be happier with the results. If you're going to be welding outdoors, a flux core welder is a good choice.

As a bonus, you can buy a wire feed welder that can be set up for flux core or bottled gas. I recommend that you go to a neighbourhood welding shop and start asking questions. If they're well set up, you'll be able to try your hand at welding with their machines before buying anything. Even some Princess Auto locations have welding rooms for customers to try. In addition to Chinese machines, Princess also carries Lincoln.

Thanks weldangrind. I am going to go to princess auto!

katoranger · 11-21-2009, 09:42 AM

I have a Hobart 140 that can be setup either way. Flux core or sheilding gas. All of my welding is outside. I use flux core. The hobart 140 is one the largest you can find to run on a 115v circuit. They are not cheap though. Benefit is that all the consumables are easily found at local stores.

I recommend not going with a harbor freight unit. It will work well until you need parts. Reveen is right in that it will be a one time purchase if you get a good one.

Arc welding is great for structural stuff. Mig/wire feed for lighter stuff. Of course you have tig, but that normally is out of the price range of a home user.

Hobart has smaller models that may be more what you need also.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/

I would recommend a hobart, lincoln, miller, century. Find out what store near you sells the consumables and get a brand they support. You don't want to have to wait on parts for the welder in the middle of a project.

Allen

suprf1y · 11-21-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

I would recommend a hobart, lincoln, miller, century. Find out what store near you sells the consumables and get a brand they support.

That would be my advice.
My Miller was used when I bought it 25 years ago, I've never had a problem with it, and I've built a lot of stuff.
The flux core welders are better for a rookie over the mig machines, IMO, but I still prefer an arc welder for simplicity, safety, and economy.
I learned something important long ago.
Welding is welding. One type is not better than the other.
In the end, it comes down to technique, and application.

Yozalo, if you have a stove, or dryer in your place, you have a 220 oulet. I tapped off the stove plug for mine, in my first house. How often are you cooking, and welding at the same time? :P

yozalo · 11-21-2009, 11:12 AM

Lol. The dryer is gas, and the stove is gas. 8O

suprf1y · 11-21-2009, 11:47 AM

Maybe you should buy some torches then

Weldangrind · 11-21-2009, 12:32 PM

I would agree with superf1y on one welder not being better than the other with one exception. Miller's 140 and 180 have infinite voltage control, whereas most of the others give you four, five or six voltages to choose from. When you have six voltage selections, you'll probably find the voltage you need (voltage and wire speed are sort of married to each other). The Miller 140 (120 volt) and 180 (240 volt) have a voltage control that goes from 0-10, and it adjusts more like a volume control. I spend more time between 3 and 4 or between 4 and 5 than anywhere else. I really appreciate the fine control.

That said, I believe that there is a Lincoln that offers the same system. Hobart does not (that I'm aware of), despite being Miller's sister company. Also, even though the Hobart wire tensioner looks the same as the Miller, it's plastic on the Hobart and metal on the Miller. Things like that (and the voltage control) make the Miller about $100 more than the Hobart.

The new Miller 140 Auto-set is probably the easiest welder there is. If you choose the auto-set feature, you simply adjust the voltage according to the wire thickness you want, and it will automatically adjust the wire speed. Perfect for beginners. It's not cheap though. :(

The Miller 140 will handle everything from 24 guage (thin sheet metal) to 3/16" steel in one pass, plugged into a standard household outlet. KMS tools (a BC tool chain) has them on sale right now for $779.95 (regular price is $849.95). Check out http://www.kmstools.com/miller-mille...ig-welder-3444

I also completely agree with the other guys here who say to buy a quality machine. It took me quite awhile to save up enough to buy my Miller, but I'm very pleased with it.

yozalo · 11-21-2009, 01:55 PM

Yes, you are right that I should buy a quality machine. But, what is the point of me buying such an expensive machine if I am only going to use it 3-4 times. :wink:

I went to princess auto and the staff barely knew about welding. They were really busy today, they only had 2-3 staff.

I asked the 70amp welder, but he said that it was very week and the maximum metal width should be 4mm. 8O

I am think of getting an oxy acetylene, but the problem is where do you get the tanks? I do not want the gigantic tanks, I want the mini ones. I am kind of confused. I know how to use oxy acetylene since our school has them. I'd prefer to oxy acetylene since I can do multiple tasking including heating stubborn bolts. :o

Also, thanks for everyone's help!

11-20-2009, 03:20 PM	#1
yozalo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 330	Arc Welder Suggestions I am planning to buy a arc welder, I am planning to buy a welder at harbor freight which is in the USA since it is cheaper there. The arc welder which I am leaning towards is the: 120 Amp Arc Welder made by Chicago Electric Welding Systems. Here is the link: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98870 What do you think of it? Is it powerful enough to work on my atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust? Also, the another problem is that the voltage of the welder, since it is 230 volts. In my house all my outputs are 110v.
	0

11-20-2009, 07:05 PM	#6
phil Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: wise va Posts: 636	i hope my advise doesnt start a big uproar but here it is i have more than a few welders. i make my living in the auto repair business. i have mig, tig arc, plasma cutters, for what you are asking heres my advice clarke makes a cheap spool gun type mig that works fair, yes price makes a diffrence, it runs flux core (no gas) tips are cheap, the wire is a little pricey but it will work and i assume your not going to use it that much. and i also guess you will only be using it on thin low stress stuff. on the other hand if you want to do 1st class work on thin stuff,or building up material to machine. (and i have done that its tuff, no pitts or imperfections) lincoln makes a the sp series, not to be confused with the superstores weld pac but thats another story. the arc welders if you go that route unless your a welder you want a DC machine the AC are harder to keep from sticking and starting is harder but then i say mig with a flux core which is really a wire welder but thats another boring debate __________________ halls auto l coolster, modcycles, yanmar & zongshen, dealer fired roketa,lifan and jet moto and apollo quit me who's next
	0

11-20-2009, 10:18 PM	#8
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Yozalo, as phil said, you can use a wire feed welder with what is called flux core wire. More on that in a moment. With whatever electric welding method you choose, a gas shield is necessary to protect the molten puddle from contamination (mostly oxygen). With an arc welder, shielding gas is released from the rod as you weld, and a hard coating will be left on the bead that requires chipping with a special (but cheap) hammer. What people refer to as MIG welding should be called wire feed welding in this discussion. A spool of wire inside the machine is turned by an electric motor as you squeeze the trigger. This wire is fed through a long hose and out of the tip of the gun in your hand. You can use a flux core wire that releases shielding gas as you weld, or you can use solid wire with a bottle of shielding gas (usually 75% Argon and 25% CO2). With a bottle of gas, it is released down the hose along with the wire that is fed from the spool. The benefit to a bottle of gas is easy, clean welds with little smoke. If you use an arc welder or a wire feed welder with flux core wire, it will be very smoky. The benefit to flux core or arc welding is that it's easier to use outdoors in windy conditions. Bottled shielding gas tends to blow away in the wind, resulting in poor welds. Arc welding is on the difficult end for a beginner. A flux core wire feed welder is much easier to operate, and you'll likely be happier with the results. If you're going to be welding outdoors, a flux core welder is a good choice. As a bonus, you can buy a wire feed welder that can be set up for flux core or bottled gas. I recommend that you go to a neighbourhood welding shop and start asking questions. If they're well set up, you'll be able to try your hand at welding with their machines before buying anything. Even some Princess Auto locations have welding rooms for customers to try. In addition to Chinese machines, Princess also carries Lincoln. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

11-21-2009, 09:42 AM	#10
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	I have a Hobart 140 that can be setup either way. Flux core or sheilding gas. All of my welding is outside. I use flux core. The hobart 140 is one the largest you can find to run on a 115v circuit. They are not cheap though. Benefit is that all the consumables are easily found at local stores. I recommend not going with a harbor freight unit. It will work well until you need parts. Reveen is right in that it will be a one time purchase if you get a good one. Arc welding is great for structural stuff. Mig/wire feed for lighter stuff. Of course you have tig, but that normally is out of the price range of a home user. Hobart has smaller models that may be more what you need also. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/ I would recommend a hobart, lincoln, miller, century. Find out what store near you sells the consumables and get a brand they support. You don't want to have to wait on parts for the welder in the middle of a project. Allen __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0

11-21-2009, 12:32 PM	#14
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I would agree with superf1y on one welder not being better than the other with one exception. Miller's 140 and 180 have infinite voltage control, whereas most of the others give you four, five or six voltages to choose from. When you have six voltage selections, you'll probably find the voltage you need (voltage and wire speed are sort of married to each other). The Miller 140 (120 volt) and 180 (240 volt) have a voltage control that goes from 0-10, and it adjusts more like a volume control. I spend more time between 3 and 4 or between 4 and 5 than anywhere else. I really appreciate the fine control. That said, I believe that there is a Lincoln that offers the same system. Hobart does not (that I'm aware of), despite being Miller's sister company. Also, even though the Hobart wire tensioner looks the same as the Miller, it's plastic on the Hobart and metal on the Miller. Things like that (and the voltage control) make the Miller about $100 more than the Hobart. The new Miller 140 Auto-set is probably the easiest welder there is. If you choose the auto-set feature, you simply adjust the voltage according to the wire thickness you want, and it will automatically adjust the wire speed. Perfect for beginners. It's not cheap though. :( The Miller 140 will handle everything from 24 guage (thin sheet metal) to 3/16" steel in one pass, plugged into a standard household outlet. KMS tools (a BC tool chain) has them on sale right now for $779.95 (regular price is $849.95). Check out http://www.kmstools.com/miller-mille...ig-welder-3444 I also completely agree with the other guys here who say to buy a quality machine. It took me quite awhile to save up enough to buy my Miller, but I'm very pleased with it. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

11-20-2009, 04:09 PM	#2
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	since it is cheaper there You are mistaken. Price is never a consideration when buying a welding machine. Typically welding machines (welders) will last you a lifetime, and will continue to work long after you are not, working, that is. I still have (own) my first welder (Idealarc 250), and it still works as good as the day it was born, 35+ years on. What you are looking at is not suitable for what you wish to weld (atv exhaust and my bro's car exhaust), you wish to buy what is called a "Mig welder". A mig welder feeds wire (at a controlled speed) within a cloud of oxygen excluded gas to join metal. A mig welder likes to "live" in a clean, dry, environment, otherwise you will have trouble with it. The welder itself contains "consumables", tips, liners, and the like, that need replacing at regular intervals (the stuff wears as you use the welder). To assure a reliable source (or even the availability) of these "consumables" it is important to buy a machine from a "known" manufacturer (Miller, Hobart, Lincoln). You will get your "nicest" welds with an external gas source, this means tank rental, and refilling. Sometimes the amount of welding you want to do, or expect to do, does not merit the cost of a welder, and all the associated stuff, in this case it is far, far, cheaper to simply pay someone to do it. I have a mig welder here, a thing called a Hobart 120, it's 20 years old, and works as good as the day I bought it. If you do not wish to spend a lot, maybe Oxy-Acetylene welding would be more suitable for you.
	0

11-20-2009, 04:11 PM	#3
Cal25 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Terrell and Grapevine Tx. Posts: 1,585	I just read the data on the link you provided. It appears to me that it is dual voltage and can run at 115V. The amp rating at 115v is only 65 w a duty cycle of 15%. You would have to use the skinny rods. I think it might work for what you want to do and would be something to learn with before spending bigger bucks on a more capable machine. I would practice a bit before doing the exhaust work. It can be tough welding thin metal with an ark welder but it can be done. I cut out the guts of my exhaust and welded back up with my arc welder. The weld still looks like slobber but has been fine for over a year. Remember you are going to need a hood and some gloves. I would suggest an aoutomatic darkening hood if you can swing it. An angle grinder and chipping hammer are a must also. Perhaps you could find a similar unit used on Craigslist for about half? All in all I would be more inclined to encourage you than to discourage you.
	0

11-20-2009, 04:26 PM	#4
suprf1y Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 408	Buy a good used single phase 220V arc welder. For what you're doing, a mig machine is the last thing you want. Too expensive, with high maintenance costs (wire/gas/tips, etc.) I have done lots of exhaust work with my arc welder. It was cheap new, has lasted me 25 yrs, and a box of rods is $20, and last forever. For an inexperienced welder, structural work with a mig machine is an accident waiting to happen. Stick to an arc welder.
	0

11-20-2009, 05:57 PM	#5
yozalo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 330	Yes, I want an arc welder since I do not want to buy tanks. The only reason I am getting an arc welder is because it does not use gas. It runs purely on electric. The only problem with this arc welder is that the output is 240v. But, all the plugs in my house are 110v.
	0

11-20-2009, 07:43 PM	#7
yozalo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 330	I was looking at the clarke and they seem to be going for $250. I'm looking for a welder under $150.
	0

11-21-2009, 11:12 AM	#12
yozalo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 330	Lol. The dryer is gas, and the stove is gas. 8O
	0

11-21-2009, 11:47 AM	#13
suprf1y Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SW Ontario Posts: 408	Maybe you should buy some torches then
	0

11-21-2009, 01:55 PM	#15
yozalo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 330	Yes, you are right that I should buy a quality machine. But, what is the point of me buying such an expensive machine if I am only going to use it 3-4 times. :wink: I went to princess auto and the staff barely knew about welding. They were really busy today, they only had 2-3 staff. I asked the 70amp welder, but he said that it was very week and the maximum metal width should be 4mm. 8O I am think of getting an oxy acetylene, but the problem is where do you get the tanks? I do not want the gigantic tanks, I want the mini ones. I am kind of confused. I know how to use oxy acetylene since our school has them. I'd prefer to oxy acetylene since I can do multiple tasking including heating stubborn bolts. :o Also, thanks for everyone's help!
	0