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09-01-2019, 09:23 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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Hawk, TBR7 and Magician top speed averages.
Let me first state it wasn't my idea to compile the group data, that honor goes to a bright young fella named Aaron P. All I did was crunch the numbers. He's going to map out a more detailed chart that includes gear ratios when enough folks have reported in.
The parameters included the general mods, sprockets jetting pipe etc. and bike model. All speeds have to be GPS confirmed on flat ground sitting up and not drafting an automobile. With 25 members reporting in, 19 Hawk which included 1 Bashan Storm, and 6 TBR7 and Magician (I lumped them together because those 2 put out nearly identical numbers and didn't seem to be affected as much by rider weight), here's what I came up with. The Hawk class top speed average is 62.26 mph (which didn't surprise me). The TBR7/Magician class average is 68.66mph (guess those smaller diameter tires do make a difference). The average American China rider weighs 221lbs. Now this did surprise me, these after all are little 229cc bikes so I figured the average owner would be about 180lbs. I haven't done any speed runs since I went up to the 13/33 ratio but it seems the 66mph I got with the 12/33 was very respectable. |
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09-01-2019, 11:28 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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This is including bikes with only bolt ons and no advanced work? Jerry and I can both hit about 75, but we both have bigger carbs and aggressive head work.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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09-02-2019, 01:12 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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Quote:
I'll crunch the numbers for the gear ratios tomorrow but I'm guessing the average to achieve these speeds is about 2.5 or 2.6. |
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09-02-2019, 02:11 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Quote:
As a whole a 2.6-2.7 sprocket ratio on a 18" rear wheel bike with a properly jetted carb at lower altitude (sub 4k ft) and tire pressures pumped up for road use will usually have a top speed right around 65-67mph with full bolt ons, but has an "ideal" max cruise speed of around 50-55mph - aka, not wide open. The same bike with a 2.5 ratio is capable of topping out at about 70, but can maintain a 60mph max cruise speed with greater ease and less throttle.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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09-03-2019, 07:59 AM | #5 |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Houma, La.
Posts: 11,707
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Oddballs??? Fanatics??? Wait! I resemble that remark! lol
My Hawk in stock form with tuned stock PZ30 carb (40 pilot/115 main), gutted cat and 17/40 sprockets would top out at 72mph. But only after I had put 500-600 mile on it. before that it struggled to do 60mph.
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2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel |
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09-03-2019, 08:17 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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Quote:
Oddballs and fanatics.. You and Dan are at the forefront of our sport and always pushing the envelope, which I have to applaud and the rest of us appreciate. There was one owner in the study that did a mild port and polish without decking the head and his top speed was 71mph, but the average Hawk owner isn't gonna go that far. |
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09-03-2019, 08:20 AM | #7 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Houma, La.
Posts: 11,707
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Quote:
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2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel |
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09-02-2019, 08:31 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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Quote:
But yeah, 4 of the 25 were 300+ and possibly a 5th that chose to not to answer that question. So these little CG engines must be pretty hardy. MtnManPoe says our beer bellies make us more aerodynamic but I haven't tested that theory. |
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09-02-2019, 07:46 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Beyond 6000 RPM is detrimental for this type of engine for long periods as per local advise.
I fail to see the benefit in TOP SPEED on wee bikes, cruising speed is more usefull and should be about 6000 RPM. |
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09-02-2019, 08:40 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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Just a friendly way of testing our bikes performance without the benefit of a dyno. And the reason I went up to the 13/33 ratio was so I could comfortably cruise along at 55mph without feeling like the engine was coming apart.
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09-02-2019, 02:02 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Quote:
As far as beyond 6000 being detrimental, I would argue that. Myself and many others have put thousands of miles on our bikes, many of which were on highways with the engine singing along at 6500-7000 the whole time.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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09-02-2019, 09:08 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 756
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Quote:
This ↑↑↑ Same thing happens here, in the south of country hundreds and hundreds of miles without a soul or sometimes phone signal... In those area people just ditch small cc bikes for something more powerful or medium sized engines. |
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09-02-2019, 11:09 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Pocatello, Idaho
Posts: 794
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I am the average of weight you mentioned above. I have had the BMScrp at about 60 mph. I don't know what the rpms are. I really never look at the speedo, just check to make sure i don't get a ticky, and that comes from riding sleds.
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A family that works together, plays together, shoots and trains together, and sleds together, stays together. Second amendment! SkiDoo sleds, NOW 2 TTR225, and a BMS250. A couple of quotes (we are not farmers) "I don't get off the farm much" "Am too old school" I call the china bikes "the china syndrome". |
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09-02-2019, 12:10 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Stockport, Oh.
Posts: 1,442
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What's interesting is most of these bikes have the bolt on mods as Dan mentioned and are "broke in". Without a dyno or drag strip you can't really tell if the mods improve acceleration (I'd say they do) but the most common Hawk number reported was 63mph, even on the few stock bikes. The same for the TBR7/Magician class, most were 68mph which Jay achieved without the pipe. This confirms that unless you take drastic measures like Dan and Jerry the CG just cannot breathe well enough to make any power on the top end no matter what you bolt on.
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