TaoTao TBR7 First start, first ride, first SUCK!

kingofqueenz · 04-22-2019, 12:26 PM

Well assembled my new project, gas'd her up with 93 oct and fired her up for the first time.

I never owned or rode a motorcycle, I have built and rode many motorized bicycles with a basic clutch and 4 stroke with no clutch lever.

After she warmed up, I took her for my first ever spin, in my back yard on grass, fairly sizeable 100 x 200 lot size of grass.

Wow did I suck!

1st gear is real punchy with lots of torque ( good for offroad I suppose ), hard to master the take off, even super slow clutch release with a drip of throttle, 9 our of 10 times she would lurch forward and stall out.

If I tried to slow clutch release without throttle, she would sputter and stall.

The goal here is to get a little comfortable on the bike, establish a familiarity with clutch, throttle, brake, try to build a toddlers level of muscle memory and then of course sign up for the MSF course and learn and get my license.

I'm certainly not posting here to learn how to drive a motorcycle from an online forum..thats pretty much suicide...rather just sharing my experiences.

Overall, start and takeoff has been VERY quirky for me with more fails than getting the bike moving.

On about 3 occasions I did get her moving in 1st, did a few figure eights and almost dumped her once because the throttle in 1st is super punchy.

A few crappy habits need to broken because as a 1st time rider, you tend to treat it like a bicycle, trying to steer instead of lean, putting a foot down or out when you turn and not looking where you want the bike to go.

Basically this entire post is to pay respect to YOU ALL, learning to riding and mastering it is not easy.

I'm 45 years old and ride everything, horses, cars, bicycles, skateboards, roller blades, snowboard etc. etc., IMHO you aint jumping on a motorcycle and pimpin day 1.

It was humbling...

Respect to you all

King

Azhule · 04-22-2019, 02:01 PM

My first guess would be the carb might need some fine tuning to help with that "lurch/stall" problem on take off, most new riders (even those new to clutch use) easily get the hang on "initial take off" within the first few hours of riding.

I have been riding motorcycles for almost 30 years but I only recently (a few years back) got into "road legal" bikes, so I signed up for the MSF course and what do you know, 9 out of 10 students was their first time riding a motorcycle and 8 out of 10 had never used a "clutch/manual transmission" their entire driving carrier.

Before lunch break the first day their was no more stalling on take off

Keep at it and make sure the carb is tuned within a hair on a gnats ace, you will be pro by the end of morning practice

**JerryHawk250** · 04-22-2019, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhule

My first guess would be the carb might need some fine tuning to help with that "lurch/stall" problem on take off, most new riders (even those new to clutch use) easily get the hang on "initial take off" within the first few hours of riding.

I have been riding motorcycles for almost 30 years but I only recently (a few years back) got into "road legal" bikes, so I signed up for the MSF course and what do you know, 9 out of 10 students was their first time riding a motorcycle and 8 out of 10 had never used a "clutch/manual transmission" their entire driving carrier.

Before lunch break the first day their was no more stalling on take off

Keep at it and make sure the carb is tuned within a hair on a gnats ace, you will be pro by the end of morning practice

^^^What he said^^^ You will get the hang of it in no time. It becomes second nature after a while.

Megadan · 04-22-2019, 02:22 PM

Instead of practicing just taking off, try practicing slipping the clutch. Learn the friction zone - where it first grabs, and then practice trying to walk the bike with the clutch and throttle, but without actually taking off. Do that for a few minutes and you will get the feel of it a lot better than just simply trying to take off. I do this with every new bike I own.

OneLeggedRider · 04-22-2019, 02:31 PM

These little motors really don't have much power, you'd be surprised at how much gas and how fast you can let the clutch out. But I've been riding 39yrs and I'm not recommending you try it until you're comfortable with it.

kingofqueenz · 04-22-2019, 05:43 PM

Thanks all..some great nuggets of info

I'm thinking Azule may be right about tuning the carb

@ Megadan - Indeed I did practice getting the feel for the "friction zone" trying to gently release until I felt it starting to grab and walk a few steps forward and then depressing it again , but man the clutch was so damn sensitive, I could never let go fully without a little throttle or it was an automatic stall.

Truth is, I'm not sure if something is off, maybe I need to coarse adjust the clutch?

Perhaps I am wrongly assuming that ALL bikes will begin to move on their own in 1st when you gradually and fully release the clutch WITHOUT any throttle ?

When I do that on my TBR7 ...she stalls every time.

I only mucked with the idle adjustment screw to get her to start, didnt mess with it too much.

King

Megadan · 04-22-2019, 07:49 PM

With these little motors they need some throttle to take off, especially if you gear them down.

If you haven't adjusted the clutch yet do so. The guide for the TT250 clytch adjustment on the CSC website is a great how to if needed.

kingofqueenz · 04-23-2019, 12:47 PM

UPDATE

Massive thanks to MegaDan and Az, it was absolutely a combination of the 2.

I needed to tune that idle adjustment on the carb, I had it too low - 1 clockwise turn in was the ticket.

The clutch needed to be adjusted - I mucked with it the first day to make it loosey goosey before riding it, and I over did it , had to tighten her down to give a better feel for a friction zone.

Now with a slow release of the clutch she gets moving on her own without any throttle and I just smoothly apply and we are moving. Whisky throttle is a legit thing for a noobie, I thought I was being gentle..but not even close.

Nevertheless, I got more ride time in today, 1st gear only, small circles in a 200 foot grass enclosed yard, starting to get comfortable.

HERE'S MY NEW PROBLEM

Not sure if this indicates something is wrong or if its the nature of these cheap bikes,

#1when I come to a stop in 1st and depress the clutch in, its a PIA to shift into Neutral, either the shifter will not budge upwards ( nor downwards indicating that I a in fact 1st), I have to walk the bike forward a few steps and then I can shift into Neutral.

#2 This is the scary one, perhaps because of #1 above, I cannot trust the gear indicator on the bike, sometimes it shows Neutral, then I start the bike (without holding the clutch) and that sucker lurched forward... IT WAS IN 1st GEAR!!! , it shows Neutral on the gear indicator and then when I turn on the bike, it either goes blank or changes to 1st ... basically she gives me a "FALSE" Neutral gear reading sometimes, not every time.

I either need to form the habit of holding Clutch on start up or holding brake on start up...scary stuff.

Again not sure of this indicates something wrong with the clutch, shifter, etc.

Thanks again for all of your help gents.

King

2LZ · 04-23-2019, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofqueenz

UPDATE

Massive thanks to MegaDan and Az, it was absolutely a combination of the 2.

I needed to tune that idle adjustment on the carb, I had it too low - 1 clockwise turn in was the ticket.

The clutch needed to be adjusted - I mucked with it the first day to make it loosey goosey before riding it, and I over did it , had to tighten her down to give a better feel for a friction zone.

Now with a slow release of the clutch she gets moving on her own without any throttle and I just smoothly apply and we are moving. Whisky throttle is a legit thing for a noobie, I thought I was being gentle..but not even close.

Nevertheless, I got more ride time in today, 1st gear only, small circles in a 200 foot grass enclosed yard, starting to get comfortable.

HERE'S MY NEW PROBLEM

Not sure if this indicates something is wrong or if its the nature of these cheap bikes,

#1when I come to a stop in 1st and depress the clutch in, its a PIA to shift into Neutral, either the shifter will not budge upwards ( nor downwards indicating that I a in fact 1st), I have to walk the bike forward a few steps and then I can shift into Neutral.

#2 This is the scary one, perhaps because of #1 above, I cannot trust the gear indicator on the bike, sometimes it shows Neutral, then I start the bike (without holding the clutch) and that sucker lurched forward... IT WAS IN 1st GEAR!!! , it shows Neutral on the gear indicator and then when I turn on the bike, it either goes blank or changes to 1st ... basically she gives me a "FALSE" Neutral gear reading sometimes, not every time.

I either need to form the habit of holding Clutch on start up or holding brake on start up...scary stuff.

Again not sure of this indicates something wrong with the clutch, shifter, etc.

Thanks again for all of your help gents.

King

First of all, neutral will be easier to find as the motor breaks in. Please keep in mind these things are SUPER TIGHT out of the crate and need miles for surface mating.

Secondly, it still sounds as though your clutch isn't adjusted properly. Tighten it up a little more.

Third, make sure the bolt that holds your shift lever on it tight. Does your level wiggle a lot?

OneLeggedRider · 04-23-2019, 01:30 PM

ALWAYS pull your clutch in every time you start a bike even if you know it's in neutral, that's just common sense safety and never trust the neutral light on any bike.

And give it some gas when you let out on the clutch, it's easier on the motor and clutch. I had a Yamaha XT 500 thumper that you didn't have to gas to take off, but that bike was so powerful and geared so low you could comfortably take off in 3rd gear.

These motors and transmissions need about 300 miles to break in. After that you'll get more power and speed, and it will shift better. Also a lower rpm idle will make it easier to shift into 1st gear and find neutral. I tried 1100 rpm but that was too low for this little motor so I'm happy with it now at 1300 rpm. But you being a newb and you're bike isn't broke in yet you should set it at 1500 rpm. You can get a simple digital rpm gauge for lawnmowers for about $10.

Have fun and you'll be doing wheelies and burnouts in no time lol.

Ariel Red Hunter · 04-23-2019, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofqueenz

UPDATE

Massive thanks to MegaDan and Az, it was absolutely a combination of the 2.

I needed to tune that idle adjustment on the carb, I had it too low - 1 clockwise turn in was the ticket.

The clutch needed to be adjusted - I mucked with it the first day to make it loosey goosey before riding it, and I over did it , had to tighten her down to give a better feel for a friction zone.

Now with a slow release of the clutch she gets moving on her own without any throttle and I just smoothly apply and we are moving. Whisky throttle is a legit thing for a noobie, I thought I was being gentle..but not even close.

Nevertheless, I got more ride time in today, 1st gear only, small circles in a 200 foot grass enclosed yard, starting to get comfortable.

HERE'S MY NEW PROBLEM

Not sure if this indicates something is wrong or if its the nature of these cheap bikes,

#1when I come to a stop in 1st and depress the clutch in, its a PIA to shift into Neutral, either the shifter will not budge upwards ( nor downwards indicating that I a in fact 1st), I have to walk the bike forward a few steps and then I can shift into Neutral.

#2 This is the scary one, perhaps because of #1 above, I cannot trust the gear indicator on the bike, sometimes it shows Neutral, then I start the bike (without holding the clutch) and that sucker lurched forward... IT WAS IN 1st GEAR!!! , it shows Neutral on the gear indicator and then when I turn on the bike, it either goes blank or changes to 1st ... basically she gives me a "FALSE" Neutral gear reading sometimes, not every time.

I either need to form the habit of holding Clutch on start up or holding brake on start up...scary stuff.

Again not sure of this indicates something wrong with the clutch, shifter, etc.

Thanks again for all of your help gents.

King

Well, if you think you are the first guy who had trouble with getting neutral to select out of first gear, welcome to the club. The trick we learned was: set the idle speed as slow as possible, then as you slowed down put upward pressure on the shifter, then pull the clutch in. Needless to say, if you put too much toe pressure under the toe lever, it will not only come out of first, it will forget all about nuetral, and go directly into second. You will pass "Go" but you will not collect $200.00. There are 6 clutches between the engine and the final drive chain. One you manipulate with your left hand. The other 5 are dog clutches in the transmission. Although people talk about shifting gears, you don't do that anymore. You are shifting the clutch dogs, not the gears. The clutch dogs have to be broken in. No company today breaks transmissions in on the bench anymore, it costs too much. You, the consumer gets to do it instead. Aren't you happy?...ARH

Wild Dog · 04-23-2019, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofqueenz

HERE'S MY NEW PROBLEM

Not sure if this indicates something is wrong or if its the nature of these cheap bikes,

#1when I come to a stop in 1st and depress the clutch in, its a PIA to shift into Neutral, either the shifter will not budge upwards ( nor downwards indicating that I a in fact 1st), I have to walk the bike forward a few steps and then I can shift into Neutral.

#2 This is the scary one, perhaps because of #1 above, I cannot trust the gear indicator on the bike, sometimes it shows Neutral, then I start the bike (without holding the clutch) and that sucker lurched forward... IT WAS IN 1st GEAR!!! , it shows Neutral on the gear indicator and then when I turn on the bike, it either goes blank or changes to 1st ... basically she gives me a "FALSE" Neutral gear reading sometimes, not every time.

I either need to form the habit of holding Clutch on start up or holding brake on start up...scary stuff.

Again not sure of this indicates something wrong with the clutch, shifter, etc.

Thanks again for all of your help gents.

King

1)No need to walk, when that happens, If you fell that you are in a false neutral, just depress a bit the clutch, a little throttle and it will get into the real Neutral
A False Neutral is not something that's unique to china made motorcycles. I have a KDX 250, it does have a false neutral. Almost all the motorcycle have false neutral, hell i have a friend with a brand new Ducati 821 and it does have a false neutral too.

Eventually you will get the hand of it and the only way to get it, is to ride.

2)If the bike is parked, move it a bit and you can tell if it is on neutral or not.

I'm also a new rider but i been driving MT vehicles since i was 16. So for me the transmission of the motorcycle wasn't very hard to learn.
IMHO, the best way to get the motorcycle moving is while you are depressing the clutch give it a bit of throttle.

Azhule · 04-23-2019, 01:16 PM

Forthly... it could just be from "dry" and or "cheap clutch fibers/plates and springs"

Megadan · 04-23-2019, 01:39 PM

^What 2lz and Azhule both said.

Neutral is going to be a pain in the rear to locate until you put some miles on it. That is true of basically every single one of these bikes, no matter who makes it. After a few hundred miles and lots of shifting, it will eventually get much easier to get it into neutral.

My Hawk had the same issue with false neutrals as well. Again, part of it is simple the trans being a bit stiff. Another part of it is getting that clutch adjusted just right. These clutches tend to suffer a bit from "fade" as the engine gets hot. You almost have to adjust the clutch to where it feels too tight when the motor is cold, or re-adjust the clutch at the lever once the engine gets hot. A big part of this has to simply do with the quality of the fiber and steel discs in the clutch. Another part of it may have to do with the lack of quality standards during assembly, and the clutch not being assembled properly. One member here was having so much of an issue with it that they pulled the clutch discs just to make sure they were not worn out, found nothing wrong, re-assembled it, and it improved a bunch.

RedCrowRides · 04-23-2019, 02:28 PM

- Even though i have ridden most of my life, i had to take the MSF to satisfy the state of florida when i moved here . It was 100% a worthwhile course and i learned stuff, or rediscovered stuff, that was very useful. A side benefit was i also got to meet some very nice people in my fellow students as well as the instructors ,some of which became good friends.

I highly recommend even those who don't " need" to take one to consider doing so.

04-22-2019, 02:22 PM	#4
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,078	Instead of practicing just taking off, try practicing slipping the clutch. Learn the friction zone - where it first grabs, and then practice trying to walk the bike with the clutch and throttle, but without actually taking off. Do that for a few minutes and you will get the feel of it a lot better than just simply trying to take off. I do this with every new bike I own. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	1

04-22-2019, 07:49 PM	#7
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,078	With these little motors they need some throttle to take off, especially if you gear them down. If you haven't adjusted the clutch yet do so. The guide for the TT250 clytch adjustment on the CSC website is a great how to if needed. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	2

04-23-2019, 01:16 PM	#13
Azhule Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: CO Posts: 1,525	Forthly... it could just be from "dry" and or "cheap clutch fibers/plates and springs" __________________ "Think as you like... but this self proclaimed Professor is always right" - Buckshot "You never know what someone is hiding beneath their smile..." - NinjaTom - R.I.P.
	0

04-23-2019, 01:39 PM	#14
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,078	^What 2lz and Azhule both said. Neutral is going to be a pain in the rear to locate until you put some miles on it. That is true of basically every single one of these bikes, no matter who makes it. After a few hundred miles and lots of shifting, it will eventually get much easier to get it into neutral. My Hawk had the same issue with false neutrals as well. Again, part of it is simple the trans being a bit stiff. Another part of it is getting that clutch adjusted just right. These clutches tend to suffer a bit from "fade" as the engine gets hot. You almost have to adjust the clutch to where it feels too tight when the motor is cold, or re-adjust the clutch at the lever once the engine gets hot. A big part of this has to simply do with the quality of the fiber and steel discs in the clutch. Another part of it may have to do with the lack of quality standards during assembly, and the clutch not being assembled properly. One member here was having so much of an issue with it that they pulled the clutch discs just to make sure they were not worn out, found nothing wrong, re-assembled it, and it improved a bunch. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

04-23-2019, 02:28 PM	#15
RedCrowRides Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 759	- Even though i have ridden most of my life, i had to take the MSF to satisfy the state of florida when i moved here . It was 100% a worthwhile course and i learned stuff, or rediscovered stuff, that was very useful. A side benefit was i also got to meet some very nice people in my fellow students as well as the instructors ,some of which became good friends. I highly recommend even those who don't " need" to take one to consider doing so. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT 2004 Sportster 2018 VADER 2020 Orion RXB250L
	2

04-22-2019, 12:26 PM	#1
kingofqueenz Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Strong Island New Yawk Posts: 464	TaoTao TBR7 First start, first ride, first SUCK! Well assembled my new project, gas'd her up with 93 oct and fired her up for the first time. I never owned or rode a motorcycle, I have built and rode many motorized bicycles with a basic clutch and 4 stroke with no clutch lever. After she warmed up, I took her for my first ever spin, in my back yard on grass, fairly sizeable 100 x 200 lot size of grass. Wow did I suck! 1st gear is real punchy with lots of torque ( good for offroad I suppose ), hard to master the take off, even super slow clutch release with a drip of throttle, 9 our of 10 times she would lurch forward and stall out. If I tried to slow clutch release without throttle, she would sputter and stall. The goal here is to get a little comfortable on the bike, establish a familiarity with clutch, throttle, brake, try to build a toddlers level of muscle memory and then of course sign up for the MSF course and learn and get my license. I'm certainly not posting here to learn how to drive a motorcycle from an online forum..thats pretty much suicide...rather just sharing my experiences. Overall, start and takeoff has been VERY quirky for me with more fails than getting the bike moving. On about 3 occasions I did get her moving in 1st, did a few figure eights and almost dumped her once because the throttle in 1st is super punchy. A few crappy habits need to broken because as a 1st time rider, you tend to treat it like a bicycle, trying to steer instead of lean, putting a foot down or out when you turn and not looking where you want the bike to go. Basically this entire post is to pay respect to YOU ALL, learning to riding and mastering it is not easy. I'm 45 years old and ride everything, horses, cars, bicycles, skateboards, roller blades, snowboard etc. etc., IMHO you aint jumping on a motorcycle and pimpin day 1. It was humbling... Respect to you all King
	3

04-22-2019, 02:01 PM	#2
Azhule Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: CO Posts: 1,525	My first guess would be the carb might need some fine tuning to help with that "lurch/stall" problem on take off, most new riders (even those new to clutch use) easily get the hang on "initial take off" within the first few hours of riding. I have been riding motorcycles for almost 30 years but I only recently (a few years back) got into "road legal" bikes, so I signed up for the MSF course and what do you know, 9 out of 10 students was their first time riding a motorcycle and 8 out of 10 had never used a "clutch/manual transmission" their entire driving carrier. Before lunch break the first day their was no more stalling on take off Keep at it and make sure the carb is tuned within a hair on a gnats ace, you will be pro by the end of morning practice __________________ "Think as you like... but this self proclaimed Professor is always right" - Buckshot "You never know what someone is hiding beneath their smile..." - NinjaTom - R.I.P.
	2

04-22-2019, 02:31 PM	#5
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	These little motors really don't have much power, you'd be surprised at how much gas and how fast you can let the clutch out. But I've been riding 39yrs and I'm not recommending you try it until you're comfortable with it.
	0

04-22-2019, 05:43 PM	#6
kingofqueenz Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Strong Island New Yawk Posts: 464	Thanks all..some great nuggets of info I'm thinking Azule may be right about tuning the carb @ Megadan - Indeed I did practice getting the feel for the "friction zone" trying to gently release until I felt it starting to grab and walk a few steps forward and then depressing it again , but man the clutch was so damn sensitive, I could never let go fully without a little throttle or it was an automatic stall. Truth is, I'm not sure if something is off, maybe I need to coarse adjust the clutch? Perhaps I am wrongly assuming that ALL bikes will begin to move on their own in 1st when you gradually and fully release the clutch WITHOUT any throttle ? When I do that on my TBR7 ...she stalls every time. I only mucked with the idle adjustment screw to get her to start, didnt mess with it too much. King
	0

04-23-2019, 12:47 PM	#8
kingofqueenz Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Strong Island New Yawk Posts: 464	UPDATE Massive thanks to MegaDan and Az, it was absolutely a combination of the 2. I needed to tune that idle adjustment on the carb, I had it too low - 1 clockwise turn in was the ticket. The clutch needed to be adjusted - I mucked with it the first day to make it loosey goosey before riding it, and I over did it , had to tighten her down to give a better feel for a friction zone. Now with a slow release of the clutch she gets moving on her own without any throttle and I just smoothly apply and we are moving. Whisky throttle is a legit thing for a noobie, I thought I was being gentle..but not even close. Nevertheless, I got more ride time in today, 1st gear only, small circles in a 200 foot grass enclosed yard, starting to get comfortable. HERE'S MY NEW PROBLEM Not sure if this indicates something is wrong or if its the nature of these cheap bikes, #1when I come to a stop in 1st and depress the clutch in, its a PIA to shift into Neutral, either the shifter will not budge upwards ( nor downwards indicating that I a in fact 1st), I have to walk the bike forward a few steps and then I can shift into Neutral. #2 This is the scary one, perhaps because of #1 above, I cannot trust the gear indicator on the bike, sometimes it shows Neutral, then I start the bike (without holding the clutch) and that sucker lurched forward... IT WAS IN 1st GEAR!!! , it shows Neutral on the gear indicator and then when I turn on the bike, it either goes blank or changes to 1st ... basically she gives me a "FALSE" Neutral gear reading sometimes, not every time. I either need to form the habit of holding Clutch on start up or holding brake on start up...scary stuff. Again not sure of this indicates something wrong with the clutch, shifter, etc. Thanks again for all of your help gents. King
	0

04-23-2019, 01:30 PM	#10
OneLeggedRider Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Stockport, Oh. Posts: 1,442	ALWAYS pull your clutch in every time you start a bike even if you know it's in neutral, that's just common sense safety and never trust the neutral light on any bike. And give it some gas when you let out on the clutch, it's easier on the motor and clutch. I had a Yamaha XT 500 thumper that you didn't have to gas to take off, but that bike was so powerful and geared so low you could comfortably take off in 3rd gear. These motors and transmissions need about 300 miles to break in. After that you'll get more power and speed, and it will shift better. Also a lower rpm idle will make it easier to shift into 1st gear and find neutral. I tried 1100 rpm but that was too low for this little motor so I'm happy with it now at 1300 rpm. But you being a newb and you're bike isn't broke in yet you should set it at 1500 rpm. You can get a simple digital rpm gauge for lawnmowers for about $10. Have fun and you'll be doing wheelies and burnouts in no time lol.
	0