Any strata experts here?

Jim · 08-27-2009, 11:12 PM

Quick story:

My apartment/condo/whatever you want to call it, building is in need of balcony repairs. The building has 60 units. 59 units have balconies. I have the 1 unit that doesn't. The strata approved a special levy of $60,000 to repair balconies, of which I paid $900 (I didn't argue, because it wasn't a huge amount relatively). They also approved a lighting retrofit for common areas of the building to save energy. Since then, the owner of one unit, who is a contractor, posted a notice, and passed them out under doors that he had a deal or contract or something, to do the repairs and it could be done in the budget, but the strata president wanted his done first, he declined, because he wanted to do it properly, and now the council has decided not to get him to do the work. They have now notified us that the $60,000 will be returned (pending a special general meeting and approval), minus a $900 processing fee or something for the property management company, and will approve a building inspection from the contingency fund. So far nothing has been done, no balcony repairs, no lighting retrofit. The original special levy for balconies was based on unit entitlement decided by apartment square footage, even though each apartment (minus mine) has the same sized balcony. I am just looking for any advice regarding dealing with the strata, since it seems unfair I should pay for repairs to limited common property that I am the only one in the building who does not get to enjoy. I have been told by many people this sounds unfair, including other building residents. Other residents were also unhappy that they had to pay more for balcony repairs because of their bigger apartment, even though the balcony was the same size. From the sounds of it, it is going to end up costing more, once they have things inspected and go the new route, and I don't want to get dragged into costly balcony repairs if I don't have one and can avoid it.

Weldangrind · 08-28-2009, 02:26 AM

The first rule is to attend all the monthly meetings. You wouldn't believe the important things that are passed with virtually nobody present. You seem like a well spoken and well mannered guy, so I'll simply suggest that you familiarize yourself with Roberts Rules Of Order. You'll benefit by understanding the rebuttal process, if you're not already familiar with it.

The balcony issue should be simple math, since the balconies are all the same size. Divide the total cost between the owners who have balconies. The cost will be determined exactly that way by the contractor, not by apartment square footage or any other silly calculation. Unfortunately, Strata has set a precedent, and the owners with small apartments will now have to fork over more than originally planned.

Obtain the meeting minutes where it was decided that the resident contractor would not be used. Find out exactly why he declined to do the Strata President's unit first (quite frankly, it looks bad to have the President's unit done first). Find out what "he wanted to do it properly" means (it might mean that the contractor didn't want to appear to play favourites). It's ridiculous to expect the owners to pay a $900 processing fee for something that never happened. Encourage the Strata council to rework the math, credit and debit as necessary, refund you and move forward.

Hope that helps.

Reveeen · 08-28-2009, 03:02 AM

This clearly illustrates the reason I would rather live in a cardboard box on a 10X10 lot (that I owned) rather than a "apartment/condo/whatever you want to call it".

Weldangrind is entirely right: attend the meetings, these folks are spending your money, most of them "don't know the war is over", and the others may be "free range morons", as far as you know. (it's far easier for someone to spend your money than it is for you to earn it)

Good luck! (you are going to NEED it)

Jim · 08-28-2009, 08:33 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I think what the contractor said in his letter was, to do it properly he needs to start on the ground floor and work up, and the strata presidents unit is on the top floor... I have to see how accurate all of that was too... I am thinking that since they are planning on refunding and starting over, this will give me a chance to try and get it organized so everything is paid for more fairly (not only for me, but also the owners of larger apartments). I will look into what you told me, thank you, and have also been looking on www.fic.gov.bc.ca and bccondos.ca.

Reveeen, if I could afford property with a freehold title, I would, but that wasn't an option, maybe next time

My apartment is one of the smaller ones in the building ( am assuming, because it is the 1 bedroom, I have a list with all the square footages, I just have to look it up ), and for the original $60,000, about $900 or $950 was my bill... If we take the square footage out of it, and set it per balcony, it is only approx. $1016 per balcony, which seems like a small increase... I am still thinking it would be hard to talk the owners of the small apartments into paying more, the ones with the larger ones would like be on my side though.

Reveeen · 08-28-2009, 09:06 AM

Once upon a time, far, far away, from where I reside now, I got involved in a condo. It was in the early days of condos, a 250 unit building, my wife was selling real estate, I was making money hand over fist, I bought in early, and cheap. The developer managed to sell about 100 units, and promptly filled the remaining units with welfare recipients. Because it was an "investment" I had $40,000 in a unit held by a limited company. When the MONTHLY "condo fees" hit $1500 a month (due to damages inflicted to the premises by the tenants), I walked/ran away, having NOTHING to sell.

Now, I know things in your case are different, but I would live in a trailer rather than do that, in ANY way, shape, or form, again.

My youngest just sold out of a condo in Edmonton, she says she did ok, I hope she did, so it must work for some folks.

Weldangrind · 08-28-2009, 11:49 AM

I did nine years in a townhouse (in your city, Jim), and it was a positive experience overall. There were a few Strata Nazis, but they're everywhere. I'm sure they have club jackets.

In our case, it was difficult to get anyone to allow their name to stand for council. It was a thankless volunteer job. Sometimes new owners would come to meetings (usually only the AGM), and start getting very protective of personal boundaries. It wasn't long before they realized that we were all trying to work together to maintain our community, not exercise power over anyone.

I never heard of a single incident of impropriety, and often the owners would pitch in to help with Strata upgrades, rather than call contractors. It was a good group. There is definitely a fundamental mindset difference between condo and townhouse ownership.

As a bonus, you often get a garage in a townhouse, and you're free to refer to it as your shop.

Jim · 08-28-2009, 08:15 PM

That sounds like it worked out well... I've been here about a year now, and I am really happy with it for the most part, I think there are 2 things I did wrong though. I bought at the wrong time, I've essentially lost my down payment due to the drop in prices, though, to be fair, it should go back up eventually, and there is no way the bank would give me a mortgage right now. The other thing is I chose an older building... That really isn't too bad though, maintenance costs are going to be higher, but the initial purchase was much lower... I'm right near city hall, so I have absolutely everything within walking distance, and with a view of the police station, I am not too worried about crime problems (which seem to have quited down quite a bit since the beginning of the year anyways). Maintenance fees and so on aren't nice, but I could easily spend $60,000 in repairs all on my own if I owned one of the older houses in the area. It's also really hard to complain with the summer we had here this year.... It must have arrived with the Heat :P

PS. I know what you mean about the strata being thankless volunteers, I try to keep that in mind, and I think overall they are doing a good job.

Weldangrind · 08-28-2009, 08:39 PM

An older building is a good move when compared with a leaky condo. My parents live in a townhouse outside of Edmonton that was built in 1971; solid as a rock, and it even has brick walls between the units as a fire barrier. Today, you'd be lucky to have two layers of 5/8" drywall.

When we finally were able to shop for a house, I looked for a mature lot that was developed in the early eighties. That period is late enough to avoid aluminum wiring and early enough to avoid Poly B tubing in the walls. I think I would be ok with PEX, bot not Poly B. I was also looking to avoid the dreaded "BC Box" style house, and they were done by the late seventies.

The house we ended up with needed a lot of work, but the lot size is much more generous than new houses in the area.

As you say, your condo value will go up in time. Don't presume that the bank won't do business with you, and don't deal with a bank directly. We've used a mortgage broker the last couple of times, and it's an excellent service. They can obtain a much better rate than you, and the successful lender pays the broker a commission; it's free for you. I haven't even visited the bank that's holding our current mortgage; it was all done by fax.

The bank will guarantee a rate for a considerable period of time before a renewal, but they won't tell you that (a broker will

). The other thing that a broker will teach you is to not buy mortgage insurance from the bank, because the bank names themselves as the beneficiary. Conversely, it has been my experience that you can buy a Term 20 life insurance policy for twice the amount of coverage and half the premium, and you name the beneficiary. Use an insurance broker for that purchase as well.

I love this forum.

Jim · 08-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Thanks for the advice

I base my comment the bank wouldn't lend me money right now on my income... I work for a small company, and do not get paystubs, just the cheques... The bank needed to verify my income (my credit is very good so that was fine), and they went off of the 2 previous years tax forms... Well last year was significantly less then the 2 previous years, and this year... Well it's significantly less then last year... I would have had the down payment and credit still, but not the income. I did talk with a mortgage broker before hand... Also the advice I was getting was to go with a variable rate, but I wasn't too sure about that... I'm at 4.9% which isn't too bad, it's not the best though either, considering I have an unsecured line of credit at 4.75% (variable though).

When I was looking, I did find an older rancher on Peardonville off Clearbrook, they wanted $228k, I never contacted them, because it was out of my price range, but it seemed like a good deal. It looked to be in good shape and the interior had been recently renovated... If I had any trustworthy friends who weren't terrible with money I would have considered going in on it together as an investment and somewhere to live for a while, but I don't... It is better off this way though, that's a lot of money to get tied in with someone else with if you aren't married I think...

I also really like how Abbotsford is so much more reasonably priced then Langley... I think I would rather live here anyways, but maybe given time in Lanlgey I would change my mind, who knows :P I think I'm probably better off here, being outside of Translinks reach and outside the GVRD or MetroVancouver. Abbotsford is investing a lot in getting their name out there, so I don't think they will let themselves be annexed by MetroVan, and I think Mission Chilliwack and Abbotsford are sticking together on the the Translink thing. I sure hope they don't get conned into changing their mind on that one.

TurboT · 08-28-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

Thanks for the advice

I base my comment the bank wouldn't lend me money right now on my income... I work for a small company, and do not get paystubs, just the cheques... The bank needed to verify my income (my credit is very good so that was fine), and they went off of the 2 previous years tax forms... Well last year was significantly less then the 2 previous years, and this year... Well it's significantly less then last year... I would have had the down payment and credit still, but not the income. I did talk with a mortgage broker before hand... Also the advice I was getting was to go with a variable rate, but I wasn't too sure about that... I'm at 4.9% which isn't too bad, it's not the best though either, considering I have an unsecured line of credit at 4.75% (variable though).

Hey Jim,

A little off topic but I do believe it is mandatory for all employers to provide you pay stubs for employment. They are not compliant with government regs if they are not. At least one a month.

Not that you want to rock the boat, but just letting you know this. As someone responsible for the day to day operation of a business, it's not hard to provide. I may be off base, but I'm pretty sure it's mandatory.

With that said, I think most people toss them and wait for the T4 anyhow...but we provide our's electronically and the program we use for bookkeeping costs us 300 a year, it's not a huge expense.

Jim · 08-28-2009, 10:59 PM

It's a small, 3 person family business, I used to get the information on a yellow post it, but I requested to not get that anymore

Thank you for the concern though

TurboT · 08-28-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

It's a small, 3 person family business, I used to get the information on a yellow post it, but I requested to not get that anymore

Thank you for the concern though

A yellow post it!!!!!!!

That's awesome.

Didn't mean to meddle. 8O

Jim · 08-29-2009, 01:13 AM

No worries

katoranger · 08-29-2009, 09:29 AM

Fortunately the only polybutylene I had was the line to the house. I replace it.

I do have masonite siding though. Just did the roof with energy star rated metal and the siding is next with hardi plank.

Allen

Weldangrind · 08-29-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

When I was looking, I did find an older rancher on Peardonville off Clearbrook, they wanted $228k, I never contacted them, because it was out of my price range, but it seemed like a good deal.

I also really like how Abbotsford is so much more reasonably priced then Langley...

$228K for a Rancher in Abbotsford? :!: Holy red flag! It sounds like someone was growing plants in there; even $328 raises a red flag for me, because you can't buy a townhouse for that. If you decide to move forward with a house (married or not, it's an excellent investment), make sure that you have it inspected with a specific focus on grow ops. House insurance can be a real problem, and the house can be dangerous due to HVAC and wiring mods.

Don't forget that the mortgage broker and the bank know that despite your income statements, you have an existing mortgage and you have to live somewhere. They want your money. Look at it this way: say for example you bought that rancher, made some minor cosmetic upgrades (remember that the feds are giving you back 15% up to $10000 this year for home improvements) and flipped it next year for a $12000 profit (after legal fees, etc). You just lived somewhere for free for a whole year (based on a motgage payment of $1000 per month). It happens all the time in Abbotsford. That said, you'll eventually profit on your condo, it'll just take longer.

I like Abbotsford as well. We've been offered a transfer a few times, but this is home now.

08-27-2009, 11:12 PM	#1
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Any strata experts here? Quick story: My apartment/condo/whatever you want to call it, building is in need of balcony repairs. The building has 60 units. 59 units have balconies. I have the 1 unit that doesn't. The strata approved a special levy of $60,000 to repair balconies, of which I paid $900 (I didn't argue, because it wasn't a huge amount relatively). They also approved a lighting retrofit for common areas of the building to save energy. Since then, the owner of one unit, who is a contractor, posted a notice, and passed them out under doors that he had a deal or contract or something, to do the repairs and it could be done in the budget, but the strata president wanted his done first, he declined, because he wanted to do it properly, and now the council has decided not to get him to do the work. They have now notified us that the $60,000 will be returned (pending a special general meeting and approval), minus a $900 processing fee or something for the property management company, and will approve a building inspection from the contingency fund. So far nothing has been done, no balcony repairs, no lighting retrofit. The original special levy for balconies was based on unit entitlement decided by apartment square footage, even though each apartment (minus mine) has the same sized balcony. I am just looking for any advice regarding dealing with the strata, since it seems unfair I should pay for repairs to limited common property that I am the only one in the building who does not get to enjoy. I have been told by many people this sounds unfair, including other building residents. Other residents were also unhappy that they had to pay more for balcony repairs because of their bigger apartment, even though the balcony was the same size. From the sounds of it, it is going to end up costing more, once they have things inspected and go the new route, and I don't want to get dragged into costly balcony repairs if I don't have one and can avoid it. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	1

08-28-2009, 02:26 AM	#2
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	The first rule is to attend all the monthly meetings. You wouldn't believe the important things that are passed with virtually nobody present. You seem like a well spoken and well mannered guy, so I'll simply suggest that you familiarize yourself with Roberts Rules Of Order. You'll benefit by understanding the rebuttal process, if you're not already familiar with it. The balcony issue should be simple math, since the balconies are all the same size. Divide the total cost between the owners who have balconies. The cost will be determined exactly that way by the contractor, not by apartment square footage or any other silly calculation. Unfortunately, Strata has set a precedent, and the owners with small apartments will now have to fork over more than originally planned. Obtain the meeting minutes where it was decided that the resident contractor would not be used. Find out exactly why he declined to do the Strata President's unit first (quite frankly, it looks bad to have the President's unit done first). Find out what "he wanted to do it properly" means (it might mean that the contractor didn't want to appear to play favourites). It's ridiculous to expect the owners to pay a $900 processing fee for something that never happened. Encourage the Strata council to rework the math, credit and debit as necessary, refund you and move forward. Hope that helps. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

08-28-2009, 08:33 AM	#4
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Thanks for the input guys. I think what the contractor said in his letter was, to do it properly he needs to start on the ground floor and work up, and the strata presidents unit is on the top floor... I have to see how accurate all of that was too... I am thinking that since they are planning on refunding and starting over, this will give me a chance to try and get it organized so everything is paid for more fairly (not only for me, but also the owners of larger apartments). I will look into what you told me, thank you, and have also been looking on www.fic.gov.bc.ca and bccondos.ca. Reveeen, if I could afford property with a freehold title, I would, but that wasn't an option, maybe next time My apartment is one of the smaller ones in the building ( am assuming, because it is the 1 bedroom, I have a list with all the square footages, I just have to look it up ), and for the original $60,000, about $900 or $950 was my bill... If we take the square footage out of it, and set it per balcony, it is only approx. $1016 per balcony, which seems like a small increase... I am still thinking it would be hard to talk the owners of the small apartments into paying more, the ones with the larger ones would like be on my side though. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-28-2009, 11:49 AM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	I did nine years in a townhouse (in your city, Jim), and it was a positive experience overall. There were a few Strata Nazis, but they're everywhere. I'm sure they have club jackets. In our case, it was difficult to get anyone to allow their name to stand for council. It was a thankless volunteer job. Sometimes new owners would come to meetings (usually only the AGM), and start getting very protective of personal boundaries. It wasn't long before they realized that we were all trying to work together to maintain our community, not exercise power over anyone. I never heard of a single incident of impropriety, and often the owners would pitch in to help with Strata upgrades, rather than call contractors. It was a good group. There is definitely a fundamental mindset difference between condo and townhouse ownership. As a bonus, you often get a garage in a townhouse, and you're free to refer to it as your shop. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

08-28-2009, 08:15 PM	#7
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	That sounds like it worked out well... I've been here about a year now, and I am really happy with it for the most part, I think there are 2 things I did wrong though. I bought at the wrong time, I've essentially lost my down payment due to the drop in prices, though, to be fair, it should go back up eventually, and there is no way the bank would give me a mortgage right now. The other thing is I chose an older building... That really isn't too bad though, maintenance costs are going to be higher, but the initial purchase was much lower... I'm right near city hall, so I have absolutely everything within walking distance, and with a view of the police station, I am not too worried about crime problems (which seem to have quited down quite a bit since the beginning of the year anyways). Maintenance fees and so on aren't nice, but I could easily spend $60,000 in repairs all on my own if I owned one of the older houses in the area. It's also really hard to complain with the summer we had here this year.... It must have arrived with the Heat :P PS. I know what you mean about the strata being thankless volunteers, I try to keep that in mind, and I think overall they are doing a good job. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-28-2009, 03:02 AM	#3
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	This clearly illustrates the reason I would rather live in a cardboard box on a 10X10 lot (that I owned) rather than a "apartment/condo/whatever you want to call it". Weldangrind is entirely right: attend the meetings, these folks are spending your money, most of them "don't know the war is over", and the others may be "free range morons", as far as you know. (it's far easier for someone to spend your money than it is for you to earn it) Good luck! (you are going to NEED it)
	0

08-28-2009, 09:06 AM	#5
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Once upon a time, far, far away, from where I reside now, I got involved in a condo. It was in the early days of condos, a 250 unit building, my wife was selling real estate, I was making money hand over fist, I bought in early, and cheap. The developer managed to sell about 100 units, and promptly filled the remaining units with welfare recipients. Because it was an "investment" I had $40,000 in a unit held by a limited company. When the MONTHLY "condo fees" hit $1500 a month (due to damages inflicted to the premises by the tenants), I walked/ran away, having NOTHING to sell. Now, I know things in your case are different, but I would live in a trailer rather than do that, in ANY way, shape, or form, again. My youngest just sold out of a condo in Edmonton, she says she did ok, I hope she did, so it must work for some folks.
	0

08-28-2009, 08:39 PM	#8
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	An older building is a good move when compared with a leaky condo. My parents live in a townhouse outside of Edmonton that was built in 1971; solid as a rock, and it even has brick walls between the units as a fire barrier. Today, you'd be lucky to have two layers of 5/8" drywall. When we finally were able to shop for a house, I looked for a mature lot that was developed in the early eighties. That period is late enough to avoid aluminum wiring and early enough to avoid Poly B tubing in the walls. I think I would be ok with PEX, bot not Poly B. I was also looking to avoid the dreaded "BC Box" style house, and they were done by the late seventies. The house we ended up with needed a lot of work, but the lot size is much more generous than new houses in the area. As you say, your condo value will go up in time. Don't presume that the bank won't do business with you, and don't deal with a bank directly. We've used a mortgage broker the last couple of times, and it's an excellent service. They can obtain a much better rate than you, and the successful lender pays the broker a commission; it's free for you. I haven't even visited the bank that's holding our current mortgage; it was all done by fax. The bank will guarantee a rate for a considerable period of time before a renewal, but they won't tell you that (a broker will ). The other thing that a broker will teach you is to not buy mortgage insurance from the bank, because the bank names themselves as the beneficiary. Conversely, it has been my experience that you can buy a Term 20 life insurance policy for twice the amount of coverage and half the premium, and you name the beneficiary. Use an insurance broker for that purchase as well. I love this forum. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

08-28-2009, 10:31 PM	#9
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	Thanks for the advice I base my comment the bank wouldn't lend me money right now on my income... I work for a small company, and do not get paystubs, just the cheques... The bank needed to verify my income (my credit is very good so that was fine), and they went off of the 2 previous years tax forms... Well last year was significantly less then the 2 previous years, and this year... Well it's significantly less then last year... I would have had the down payment and credit still, but not the income. I did talk with a mortgage broker before hand... Also the advice I was getting was to go with a variable rate, but I wasn't too sure about that... I'm at 4.9% which isn't too bad, it's not the best though either, considering I have an unsecured line of credit at 4.75% (variable though). When I was looking, I did find an older rancher on Peardonville off Clearbrook, they wanted $228k, I never contacted them, because it was out of my price range, but it seemed like a good deal. It looked to be in good shape and the interior had been recently renovated... If I had any trustworthy friends who weren't terrible with money I would have considered going in on it together as an investment and somewhere to live for a while, but I don't... It is better off this way though, that's a lot of money to get tied in with someone else with if you aren't married I think... I also really like how Abbotsford is so much more reasonably priced then Langley... I think I would rather live here anyways, but maybe given time in Lanlgey I would change my mind, who knows :P I think I'm probably better off here, being outside of Translinks reach and outside the GVRD or MetroVancouver. Abbotsford is investing a lot in getting their name out there, so I don't think they will let themselves be annexed by MetroVan, and I think Mission Chilliwack and Abbotsford are sticking together on the the Translink thing. I sure hope they don't get conned into changing their mind on that one. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-28-2009, 10:59 PM	#11
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	It's a small, 3 person family business, I used to get the information on a yellow post it, but I requested to not get that anymore Thank you for the concern though __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-29-2009, 01:13 AM	#13
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	No worries __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-29-2009, 09:29 AM	#14
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	Fortunately the only polybutylene I had was the line to the house. I replace it. I do have masonite siding though. Just did the roof with energy star rated metal and the siding is next with hardi plank. Allen __________________ You meet the nicest people on a Honda Clone.
	0