Heart and coronary artery issues
 

All this week I have been doing some painting on my house and garage exteriors, while I had a bit of warmer weather. I am 73 and pretty healthy, lean and fairly active but not a gym rat by any means. I don't smoke or drink, and eat pretty healthy. I have a slight congenital heart murmur that has never been a problem. I knew I would get some aches and pains from the painting, since I don't do this regularly. Normally I would take turmeric for inflammation, but I was out of it, so I used ibuprofen. One on Monday, one on Tuesday, and two on Wednesday.

So Wednesday afternoon I was just finishing up the garage, and I got what was very obviously a heart attack. Never had one in my life, but it was unmistakeable. I lay down and spent about 40 minutes recovering. After I recovered, I went on the internet and confirmed the symptoms, the worst and most obvious being the viselike hold on my heart. Plus sweating, shortness of breath, weakness. This would probably be considered a fairly mild attack. More like a shot across the bow.

The next morning (today) I did some quick research on ibuprofen side effects. Turns out it is known to increase the risk of both stroke and heart attack. I have used it in the past, but never three days in a row like this. I threw away what I had and went and got some turmeric capsules from the local health food store. This afternoon I finished the garage (just some touch-up brushwork), with no problems at all. I doubt the heart attack will ever recur now that I know to avoid ibuprofen, and in general stick to natural remedies and supplements.

Dude. Are you for real self-medicating a heart attack and not going to see a doctor?

Thanks for this Tom! I’m not an avid ibuprofen user either and like you fairly healthy and try to eat right, my wife is the same. Last year she out of nowhere with no other issues, and believe me she sees the doctor regularly, had a heart attack and had to have a stint put in. Prior to the heart attack she starting taking ibuprofen every night before bed because she was hurting all the time, probably age related. The doctor couldn’t find anything to cause it other than high cholesterol, her numbers have never been high. So now they have her on statins and want her LDL below 60. I’m flabbergasted at the whole thing, she was always eating right and took care of herself well and wasn’t overweight or anything. Could it have been the ibuprofen? I don’t know maybe but I think I’ll avoid it all the same. We use turmeric as well, I am not on any medication and feel pretty good except for the normal age related stuff.

Why do people place their faith in doctors? Doctors have been killing us since western medicine began. Look at the opioid crisis that is happening RIGHT NOW. Takes doctors to prescribe all that dope. No doctors, no crisis.

If you take one of those generic "one a day" vitamins, dump it in the trash if it has cyanocobalamin for vitamin B12. You see the beginning of that word...."cyan"? Yeah, that's for the freaking CYANIDE that this vitamin is based on.

Wake up, dude.

Doctors don't work for you or I, they work for the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies. You're just a cash cow.

I apologize if there are any doctors on here that help and treat people for their actual problems. I had one once, years ago, but he died of cancer and I haven't met another since.

The thought of calling 911 never entered my mind. I have no contact at all with the medical field. At some point I might need cataract surgery, but that would be it.

Tom, you total loontard (I hear you say), WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

The purpose of western medicine is to make money, pure and simple. The goal is not healing, or wellness maintenance, it is symptom management. Because that's where the money is. It's been this way since the US oligarchs promoted it about a hundred+ years ago, and suppressed other competing medical systems such as chiropractic, herbal medicine and naturopathy. The oligarchs founded medical schools for their preferred business model, and ever since then the pharmaceutical industry has had a choke hold on medicine and for that matter, the USA. They are the biggest lobbyist group in Congress, and buy Senators and Reps like you would buy a can of beans.

Anyone who really wants to be healthy has to get outside of their paradigm. In my entire adult life I have never seen a doctor except when the Army required me to (shots, physicals, etc.). I am in better overall health than some people 50 years younger.

The big key is what we shove into our faces, in terms of both quality and quantity. The paradigm that food is about health and life, not about pleasure and comfort, changes your eating habits dramatically. No smoking, very minimal alcohol, substitute higher quality tasty stuff for lower quality, take supplements as needed, especially as we age. It's not difficult--but who will actually do it?

I am not in the slightest concerned about a future heart attack. Very likely it ain't gonna happen, because now I know better.

Thanks for the heads up Tom.

Geez, excuse me for showing a little concern for fellow human being?
Millions of people take Advil every day and they aren't having heart attacks left and right, yes. If Advil does aggravate a heart condition and gives you an attack it simply means you have a serious health issue that needs looking at. Thousands and thousands of people die needlessly every year from very preventable heart issues. Last week it was one of my co-workers. He would hold his chest once in a while like someone with heartburn but blew it off. He was a never-doctor type. Paramedics said he was likely dead before he hit the floor. Dropped like he'd been shot. 58 years old.

My father have heart issues in his sixties. Went to the doctor pretty regularly and managed to get 94 years out of his creaky heart. Does that mean you will? No. Just citing two close and personal examples rather than statistics off the internet.

I don't dispute medicine in general being a money game. It sucks, but it's what we have. Like how you can't just go see a heart specialist because you know darn well you have a heart problem. You have to go to a regular doctor first and then be "referred" to one. The way it is and how it works.

I took ibuprofen for years. Thought about it one day and realized if it had EVER provided me any relief I couldn't tell it. Same with naproxen, nothing. I take neither. Tylenol and aspirin at least help a little, especially with headaches and mixed with caffeine.

A. Noted and appreciated. :)
B. My info on symptoms of a heart attack came from the American Heart Association website. Info on ibuprofen increasing risk for a heart attack came from the Mayo Clinic. I wasn't citing old wives' tales, back-fence chatter, urban legends, or any other silliness. Just because it is on the internet does not make it suspect. But it's an easy excuse to not hear what a person does not want to hear.
C. It is not all we have. You just have to think outside the box a little. And be your own health advocate; take responsibility for your health rather than farm it off to someone else. Most doctors don't know jack squat about nutrition or herbal supplements. And anyway they are tied into the pharmaceutical money game, especially if they still have their medical college student loans to pay off.

Western medicine is a very well-designed racket.

FYI: those are also the symptoms of a panic attack. If you had a heart attack you would know it lol it doesn’t just clear up. It needs intervention. A heart attack (myocardial infarction) is the physical blockage of blood from making it through the arteries to your heart. The blockage needs removing to recover.

Also, you need to go to the doctor even if it seemed to clear up. Why? It can’t clear up. If you had a blockage, it’s still there depriving your heart of oxygen and slowly killing it. (Read up on heart failure, the result of untreated heart attacks)

So it was either a panic attack or you need to go in

My point is that you may well have a treatable condition that can't diagnose yourself with all the internet info there is. Sometimes you need stuff like endoscopes, EKG machines, etc, and someone who is experienced at interpreting the data that kind of equipment can provide. You've been lucky enough to have warning attack you could walk away from. Expect at least one more in the future. How you choose to use that information is up to you.

I hadn't been to a dentist in 25 years. One Sunday I got a killer toothache. Very bad. Managed to suffer through it. Next day I felt better than fine, like nothing ever happened. I got my butt down to a dentist ASAP to find out what the heck that was about and how to not have it happen again. That's just how I roll though. I'm taking it that no matter what anyone says you ain't goin to no darn doctor so I'm letting it go.

In the end, don't doctors just prescribe blood thinners for heart attacks? Basically?

It's one thing to look at medicine and realize it's a racket. That's great. The food industry? Racket. Any kind of insurance? Racket. Legal system? Racket. Education? Racket. Everything is a freakin' racket.

This is the end result of capitalism. Hey, it was great....for a very few of us, put most of us in the poor house. Can we come to the conclusion that we gave capitalism a try, and it mostly sucked? I'm not advocating communism, just something other than capitalism.

I think the honking great scar my dad wore in the center of his chest for twenty years was the result of a bit more than blood thinners. You guys are kind of weirder than I thought. (Not that that is bad thing.)

Yep. Heart and cancer patient here and I'm alive because of my fine and talented medical staff. I have all the faith in the world in my medical team. They know far more then me.
Worried about you Tom. Clogged arteries, especially if it's genetic like my family tree, don't just go away. Be careful, my friend.

I guarantee you it was not a panic attack. I am not at all prone to them. It was a purely physical event that came out of nowhere (I am also not prone to chest pains). And in fact I stayed pretty calm throughout.

It is possible that it was just severe chest pains that went on for about 30 minutes, then cleared up since I was laying down and resting. A heart attack warning sign, or precursor. But it had all the symptoms of a heart attack. Maybe an EKG etc would say otherwise, IDK. I still think it was caused by the ibuprofen and a congenital weakness in my heart, which has never been an issue before, even with plenty of heavy workouts in my life. This was the first time I have ever taken ibuprofen three days in a row. All I was doing was painting, pretty mild activity.

But here's the bottom line: I will not take prescription meds, and that's all doctors are good for basically. I refuse to get on the AMA's healthcare merry-go-round. So it makes no difference whether it was a heart attack or just severe prolonged chest pains. I have a naturopath/herbal medicine specialist I trust far more than the official medical profession. And given that I eat pretty healthy, I seriously doubt I have any blocked arteries.

Most people looking at me for the first time think I am 55 - 60, and about 95% of the time I move like I'm 35. I'm up on ladders, roofs, whatever it takes to get stuff done.

The key is prevention so you don't ever have to go on the merry-go-round. Lots of otherwise smart people don't get this.

Side note to Bigdano:
What we want is a system that gives the maximum amount of personal freedom (and requires the maximum amount of personal responsibility). That is the Constitution. Any system that starts with central control, not de-centralized like we have, will become oppressive in short order. That's just human nature. It's always the people least deserving of power who crave it, so we have to keep an eye on all politicians. If you can figure out something that works better than capitalism and still preserves personal freedoms, great.
Not meaning to turn this into a political thread.

I had to look up "naturopath". Interesting. Apparently there are zero qualifications, standards, or licenses required to be one. So I can say I am a naturopath or herbalist and BAM! I am one. Just like that.

Versus the four years of college, four years of med school, and at least three years of residency required before one is licensed to practice in the science of medicine.

Fun thing about scientific stuff, it either works or doesn't. No need for us to believe or have faith in it one way or the other. That doesn't affect the results.
Just throwing in how I personally look at things. I don't expect everyone to think about things the way I do. The world would be terribly boring if it were that way.

I agree with just about everything, especially the not taking pills stuff. I don't live the healthiest or eat the healthiest, but I am absolutely not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of a pro-longed, painful death, but death itself? Nope. We all have an expiration date. Preventable? To a degree. Inevitable? Absolutely.


The Constitution is a document. Written by men, some of them teenagers, who had the ability to read and write. This ability was a massive advantage over the masses. Chomsky argues that it is designed to protect the rich few from the masses, and I'm inclined to agree. Especially when you see how the indigenous were, and continue to be, treated.


I'm not big on the Constitution, but does it even mention capitalism? I remember something about the freedom to pursue happiness....?

I use ibuprofin daily. 65 years old. It helps me with the inflammation on my shoulders and knees. I take two x 200mg a couple times per night so I can use my knees when I get up. No issues. It can't make me whole, but it allows me to get around. It makes a difference.

Regarding my primary care physician... He is extremely knowledgeable. I trust him for diagnosis that he has expertise to deliver. He refers me for other things. I trust him implicitly to give me sound advice. We discuss things. He doesn't make any diagnosis or comment without listening to me. I trust him.

I agree that pharmaceutical industry need to be snubbed big time. Seriously.

I gave up on ibuprofen as a pain reliever. I don't think I've ever used it strictly for inflammation. I'll keep that in mind. It may yet have value for me.

Aspirin. If you think you're having a heart attack, take some aspirin and see a doctor immediately. Regardless of your feelings about western medicine, there are many health issues that it can treat very effectively. Stents add years to people's lives, as can bypass surgery.

Instead of oral NSAIDs like ibuprofen, consider diclofenac gel (Voltaren) for chronic joint pain.

Agreed! What we do or don't do can affect the expiration date. But yeah, inevitable.
Even during the heart attack I was not all that concerned. While I would love to hang around a few more decades, I'm not afraid of death, and was accepting that two days ago might be the day. Had I had a PANIC ATTACK :cry: :cry: and called 911, I'd probably now have a medical bill in the many thousands, between the EMTs, hospital care and testing. And for nothing, as it turned out.

Aspirin is good, and even better is a few drops of cayenne extract, from the peppers. Burns like crazy, but my health store lady (70 YO looks like 55, been in this business forever) says it will stop a heart attack in seconds. I trust her like Thumper trusts his doctor. You stop the burning by eating a cracker, or something a little greasy like chocolate or a tortilla.

As far as stents and bypassing surgery, my point is that if people would just eat healthy (and doctors were focused on nutrition instead of symptom management), there would be no need for stents or surgery. Or almost all medications.

Guys let's stay away from politics from now on. Hate to get this thread deleted.

Joe Rogan recently did a podcast with a guy named Gary Brecka. That's how I learned about the cyanocobalamin. I like the dude because he is a human biologist, NOT a doctor. What he had to say made a lot of sense. He focuses a lot on diet and he has a test that will tell you what your body is deficient in and recommend specific supplements targeting those deficiencies.


I started late in the year, but I have been "grounding" at first light, taking off my shirt and getting sun and doing some simple breathing exercises. Grounding is exactly as it sounds; bare feet to bare earth or grass and literally grounding the electrical current running through our bodies. Only a few days and I can tell it's making a difference. Just wish the temps were above freezing in the mornings.

While i am an anti docter kind of guy, if not for western.medicine i wouldnt know i am leiden factor v, and would be dead over 10 yrs ago now.... i am a 3 time survivor of bilateral pulmonary emboli... and that only because of blood thinners.... my blood has a genetic predisposition to clotting, which means i am at major risk for heart attack, stroke or PEs.... if not for western medicine i would have died when i got the first round...

Probably not a bad idea to check in with a doctor... clot problems (like a heart attack) are not something to mess with at all.....

Not disagreeing with you or how you got your problem fixed. I will point out two things:
1. There is such a thing as epigenetics. This means that many health conditions lie dormant until triggered by poor nutrition (junk food, smoking, booze, other recreational drugs). If people didn't do those, they would not get medical conditions whose symptoms the medical establishment makes a lot of money from treating. Both good and poor health is (IMO) about 95% attributable to what we consume.
2. A good nutritionist and herbal wellness person could probably suggest natural remedies--not prescribing medication you understand, that would be illegal. More like a "try this, it works great for lots of people" situation. Just eating mostly healthy and taking a high quality vitamin/mineral formulation will do a lot. Then you supplement based on your particular situation.

3. Bonus point. The fact is that I am making a conscious decision to have nothing to do with the medical establishment (unless I get hit by a bus while crossing the street and texting, for example). I despise the corrupt racket that it is. While I'd like to live a long healthy life, I'll take health quality over longevity. Whatever anyone's religious beliefs are, or lack thereof, we all will die and it makes a lot of sense to come to terms with that.
I assure you that there are alternatives to the medical establishment that have high integrity.

Cue the Frank Sinatra song. You know which one.

I read this discussion and now I will toss in my 2 cents..... like it or don't... doesn't matter because I'm speaking for me and me alone.

Long ago I decided that since death was inevitable I only had two choices.. I could worry about my health taking great care of my body with eating healthy, exercising regularly, and avoiding any risky activities. Then one day I would die.

Or I could enjoy life with lots of great tasting food indulging in alcohol sometimes, lots of sex, riding my motorcycles, playing with my cars, and just actually living life without worrying about how long I might... or might not... live. And then one day I would die.

Well, I'm 75 years old and I'm still alive thanks to doctors using stents and a pacemaker. I've loved, been loved, still love deeply and am loved and still (thanks to doctors using modern surgical techniques) making love. I have, and still do, eat and drink what the hell ever I want when I want. I will have a drink occasionally and maybe more at home if I want. I ride sport bikes a bit too fast and take my cars on those same twisty roads often playing close to the edge. And one day I will die.

To each his own but when I do die I will know that........ I actually LIVED before I died.

Croaked three times in one evening. Most peaceful place I've ever been. Not in a hurry to return because I know it's inevitable, and I still have shit to do here. As Bikernut says, it's all about living.

@ Bikenut. I respect your decision because you made it consciously. Not just muddling through life like most people do. It's your life to live.

All drugs have side effects. Every human has genetic differences to the next human. One side effect may affect one human but not another human. One side effect may be minor to one human but major to another human. Making blanket statements about to or not to use a drug because of the outcome for one human is not right. Warning someone of the possibilities is fine.

I just read a medical news article on SSRIs and since this country is in love with anti depressants I found it interesting that a listed side effect is loss of sexual desire. The article was about people who stopped taking SSRI medicines but permanently have the side effect of complete loss of libido for the remainder of their life. Now I don't post online everyone stop taking SSRIs because I understand it's a fixed chemical compound being used on an infinite variable mix of genetics individuals so individual results may vary.

Not trying to argue or anything as i agree, 90% of americas health issues could be solved witha good diet and excersize....LOL however my case? First bout of PE was while training for a cross country bike ride...LOL talk about good eating and plenty of excersize....sometimes is just flat out (pardon the obvious pun here) bad blood lines....

Yeah, I did overreact a bit. You are right about the variance in how food/drugs affect people differently. But given that I thought I had just had a heart attack, maybe it's understandable. The important thing is bringing to peoples' attention that there are side effects of drugs, and for that matter food ingredients.

It happened again today. Not so much the vise-like feeling on my heart, but the chest pain. Caused by moving around a bunch of stuff in the garage--even worked up a bit of a sweat. Classic trigger for angina if you have a blocked coronary artery. Was OK after 30 minutes of rest. Did some research, and now think I haven't had any heart attacks, it was angina pectoris (i.e. chest pain). This comes from a partial blockage to one/both arteries sending blood from the heart. Took a baby aspirin afterwards to thin out the blood a bit. Will get some willow bark pills (basically old-school aspirin, without stomach irritation). I had already gotten a supplement specifically for heart health.

Another cause might be palm oil. For a few months I have been eating pretty regularly an almond butter that unbeknownst to me (didn't read the label) had palm oil in it. This is bad for cholesterol levels, and high cholesterol is no bueno for the heart. So out it goes.

So once I straighten out the diet and get the right supplements, I will monitor how I feel with various levels of exercise. After giving the body some time to sort itself out.

Recommend this book. I have an older copy. https://www.amazon.com/Prescription-...ks%2C98&sr=1-1

Here's a drug they gave me for manic depression:


https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugs...701s057lbl.pdf


LOL @ "ACTIONS
The precise mechanism of action has not been clearly established."


I thought science was supposed to be precise? I was taking Lithium, Haldol and Cogentin. I can't find any numbers, of course, but Haldol + Cogentin took out a lot of mentally ill people and I believe it was by design. I was exercising one day, shooting hoops on the basketball court, and I just dropped. Massive chest pain and totally out of it. I was dying, and I was only 20 years old.


Try to rap your head around this: the side effects are the INTENDED effects.

Yep.

When I was a kid, childhood cancer and autism were extremely rare. Almost nonexistent. Now they are both very common. It wasn't humanity's genetic makeup that changed over a couple of generations. The pharmaceutical companies and medical establishment did this to them. All this Race for the Cure stuff is just theater for the gullible. An obscene joke.

Note last line of my sig. As a matter of pure self-defense, everyone needs to be their own health advocate. If you go to a doctor, go in armed with research. Don't just accept what they say as the word of God. There are crappy doctors and nurses, and uncaring doctors and nurses; and hospitals are bureaucracies that are most concerned with their own well-being.

From your drug info in post #31:
"Elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis treated with antipsychotic
drugs are at an increased risk of death."

Well if it kills them, then they are no longer psychotic. Problem solved! :tup:

Dano, I would suggest having a good talk with a nutritionist and herbal medicine specialist, and try to gradually substitute good quality food and more natural solutions instead of prescription medicines. Since everyone is different physiologically, so is success at this. But worth a try.

A little update to this thread. Haven't had any serious chest pain since the second episode in mid-November. Just mild pain from moderate exertion, solved by deep breathing. I now know that I have severe coronary artery blockage, and am adding lots of heart/artery specific supplements to address this. I cut out palm oil and even stevia for my coffee, since stevia products that are available here all have erythritol, also known to be bad for the heart. I use a little honey instead.

Today I had to go down into my crawlspace to set up a heater for the coming winter storm, and single-digit temps. Keep it above freezing down there. As a test, I decided to not move slowly and just behave as if I had no issues. Of course I got fairly severe chest pain, but it didn't seem quite as bad as the other two times. And while those times required 30 minutes of bed rest to get me back to normal, this time it only took 10 - 15 minutes. This is encouraging. My hope is that six to twelve months of continuing my new supplement and healthier food choices routine will make this go away altogether. We will see.

you think the health/supplement industry isn't just as much a "racket" as the medical industry? Capitalism at it's best. "There's a sucker born every minute". It sounds to me like that guy is trying to sell people his "test", and I bet he has his hand in the pie for the supplements he recommends. I don't trust people who aren't trained any more than you probably trust doctors. At least he's a biologist, but I bet that degree in itself doesn't pay all the bills.

While health food stores are also in the capitalist system, I have found that the people who work in these stores actually seem to care about people. Not something you can say about the Big Pharma-dominated US medical system. Medical school is expensive, and doctors are forced to toe the pharmacological line to stay in the system that employs them, to get those loans paid off. Expensive drugs, tests and surgery should not be the first line of defense against disease. It should be the universal promotion in schools and the doctor's office of healthy eating habits and exercise. Then when all else fails, the solutions that they currently do first. That would be a system worthy of respect.

Our current medical system is designed to keep you addicted to its services--treat the symptoms--not to make people whole and healthy. They are against any competing type of care which takes away their money and power.

I'm betting that the supplement industry "racket" as you call it will do much more for me, and far cheaper and more conveniently, than the Medical Establishment. Again, we shall see.