Help Needed with Front Forks
 

I wanted to change my front fork oil this weekend. The right side went fine. However, the left side is being a bit of a challenge. I am having the same problem as MusicTrek posted about,
seen here in this post.

The problem is that the bottom hex bolt will not tighten up. I'm able to thread it in just fine, to a point. When it get close to the end, it just keeps spinning and spinning and will not tighten up. I tried:

1. Re-installing the top cap (temporarily) to put pressure back on the spring in hopes that it would press against the bottom and allow the hex bolt to tighten...didn't work.

2. I tried the broom stick method that Musictrek suggested. I had the strap pulled really tight, but it didn't work.

For the mean time, my bike is out of commission and that's not fun. :ohno:

Please help me! In Musictrek's thread, "Humanbeing" suggested a tool, but the writing was in Chinese (Mandarin?) and the actual name of the tool was not listed. I looked online and I cannot find anything like that tool. And, the only "fork took" I'm finding relate to inverted forks, not "standard" forks. Is this a rare problem?

Any help and suggestions = greatly appreciated!

what shape recess is in the top of the damping rods...

most jap bikes have a Hex that you can find a nut or bolt head to fit
then weld it to a length of rod or pipe to reach down to hold the
damping rod from turning..



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https://support.google.com/translate.../6142483?hl=en is quite useful or Draws it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85TCWJZOUQg ...
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Those thingy in tb = square head's diameter 3.5mm-4mm depends on different seller
http://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/19...1941321181.jpg
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i1/8...!!88438945.jpg

I'm new to working on bikes...I am not really sure what you're talking about. Either on top or bottom of the fork, I don't see any hex shape. I really don't understand how the right side tightened right up, but the left side is just spinning. It doesn't make sense to me because looking at the hex bolt, it appears to thread right into the bottom of the fork, and initially goes on fine, but then just spins the end? What is it threading into if not the bottom of the fork tube?

And assuming the shape is a hex, how would I know what size bolt head or nut to weld to this rod?

That looks like it should do trick, but it looks like it would be coming from China, and therefore probably take weeks to get here, if not longer. I was hoping to get this fixed within a few days.

I am suprised broom stick did not work . Makes me wonder if something else is not cool down there . I always use my 3/8 air impact tool to spin those bolts off and on . FYI always start them by hand prior tightening . The fast action of the air impact seats them properly everytime for me . If I was you I would take them apart again and thread bolt into assembly and see if threads are messed up. Worse case a tap will have to be chased through threads to clean them up. Again , wish all you guys with issues lived closer . I have 4 decades of tool collecting that likes to be kept shiny from use. Heck I got tools I forgot I even have here . When I get to know ya all better I got no problem shipping them to loan out for shipping costs .
Rail ;)

I got another thought ...
Take cap off and install like 4-5 nickels under cap to force spring down more to apply more pressure to retainer so it can be tightened up. It will require more force to thread cap on . But this should do the trick . Afterwards take out nickels and spend wisely :lmao:
If this does not work , for sure take apart and thread bolt in peice and see what's wrong .
PM me for email as than I can send pix of examples , heck I would tear mine apart to show ya what's what . Been doing this my entire life on those planet :hehe:
Rail
Best of luck.

http://www.dansmc.com/forks.htm had good tips...
Worst case = visits those old timer bike mechanic (Grease monkey at authorized stealer often are brainless :tdown:) that had right tools & knowledge...

The bolt threads into the fork's piston. Think of a tube within a tube. There should be a nut or a square or hex shaped hole so that a tool can be used to keep the piston from spinning. I'm guessing that it's a hole of some shape since humanbeing and rail are both suggesting a tool that fits into something.

Here's a couple pictures to better understand.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/a...d3921/fork.gif
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/a...3921/fork2.jpg
Neither of these are mine but these are examples of what's inside a conventional fork. The issue you are having is the piston is spinning. The second photo shows how the bolt attaches the piston to the fork. In the first photo, you can see that there is a hole of some kind at the top of the piston. This is where the tool fits in to keep it from spinning.

David3921, thanks for the photos. I understand it better now.

I have a makeshift tool made from metal rods. My father in law in an ex-farmer and has a lot of misc tools and parts. He had some steel rods (with a square tip) that are meant to connect to one another and then turn a scissor jack that's placed under a tractor; so when connected it is over 3 long. The tip is square and about 3-4mm on each side.

I used the tool to take the hex bolt back out. It worked fine for that. I didn't try to use it yet to re-assemble the the fork yet. The reason being that I'm contemplating putting a rubber washer on the hex bolt...which, if I do, will need to wait until morning when the store opens. What are you thoughts on this?

part 1 is the damping rod "or piston as they call it"
the bolt screws into the bottom of it... the hex i was talking about
is in the top of it...



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You are not the first person Ive heard of having trouble with reassembly of that bottom bolt into the damping rod.

Im thinking maybe it might be better to just remove the fork from the bike and tip it over to drain all the oil instead of dealing with that bottom bolt

I hope you get it back together.

I think I will just dump the oil out and not take it apart when I change the oil in mine.
Any reason this is not a good idea?

I'm glad to see you're making some progress on it. :tup:

I obviously don't know much about this, as I am still in the middle of it, but personally...I might looking into doing it that way if I had to do it again.

That's how I do it.

Front Fork Update
 

Here's the update on the front forks.

This morning, I went to the hardware store and they happened to have an exact hex bolt as the one that is used at the bottom of the fork. It's black, but other than that, it was the exact same bolt. I went straight home and tried it and wouldn't you know...it tightened just fine. I was able to torque to the specified torque and it didn't spin at all. I didn't even need to use the broom handle trick. Instead, I temporarily put the spring back in and the fork cap on and put some weight back on the front tire to push the piston down. I will just assume that something was wrong with that hex bolt, although it looked okay.

I put the fork oil in, and then torqued the cap bolts. I should be okay, but in the meantime, I'll check for leaks. It shouldn't leak; just saying.

Am I glad I changed the fork oil? I would say so. Here is a pic (see below) of the factory fork oil, and keep in mind my bike has under 20 miles on it. What are your thoughts on this? To me, it seems like it was under filled (about 4 oz), and I wouldn't think "new" fork oil should look like this.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps3p8mzp4e.jpg

That is low. Mine wasn't quiet as clean as that and had about 6 oz. in each. But I had over 500 miles on mine.
Does your wife know your are using her favorite measuring cup? :hehe:

Like mine your forks were less then half full. Your'e going to like those forks MUCH better now lol.

Yes there will be a big difference. I went off road riding Saturday. Last time I went before I changed the oil my shocks bottomed out a few times. Saturday not once did it come close to bottoming out. The shocks were definitely more firm.

Reading must have become a lost art in America. Many, many posts on here have discussed the fact that these bikes make a long ride from China to get here, and that they have RUST PREVENTATIVE OILS in the forks, engines and transmissions. You are supposed to change them right away when you get the machine. And another thing which has not been discussed much is that it is the luck of the draw as to whether there is a mere trace, or more of grease in the steering head bearings. These are cup-and-cone bearings, which means loose ball bearings. Just like a bicycle. If you are going to take the steering head apart to check the grease, I suggest you wrap the tape of your choice on the bottom of the headstock, else those little ball bearings will be inclined to cascade all over the garage floor, some never to be seen again in this lifetime. As for grease, I suppose any marine grease is fine, but I've always used either Evinrude or Mercury brand grease as I KNOW the stuff works even drowned in salt water.....ARH

Or like one of my old Harleys when you drop the lower tree out and they pour down inside the frame never to be seen again. It's like trying to get a guitar pick out of a guitar body.

I'm just happy my bike it's back together. :D

And, I even learned a thing or two along the way.

:tup: Glad to here. You'll be a pro before its all over with. Great bike to learn mechanics on.

Anybody know how much oil to put into each fork on the Inverted ones on the Brozz?

same question, would like to know as well...and ATF is good enough?

I read up on the ATF issue a lot. From what I read it is fine. I was actually going to use it myself. The only reason I didn't was that there happens to be a few bike shops within 10 minutes from where I work and they sell fork oil for about the same price as synthetic ATF. Plus, I like knowing what weight I'm buying. With the ATF, the weight depends on the brand... That's what I read. Some other more knowledgeable folks might chime in.

ATF is fine from what I read, but for me the fork oil was the same price and just as easy to get.

Either way you go is better than what's in there now!

ATF works very well in the forks. There is at least 100 guys on this forum that use it, and with no complaints. Dextron, from GM is the thinner one, works much better than what comes with the bike. Ford's Mercon is somewhat thicker, which makes the damping even firmer. I would try Dextron spec first. WalMart house brand comes in these two diff specs, and works fine....ARH

In the 70's ,the shop I worked at figured that dexron was about a 8 weight ,not scientific ,but we compared it with the bel ray and other products we had and it was pretty much an 8 weight .

The only issue I had with ATF back in the day was it foaming under heavy abuse, like motocross, and pumping up the forks. I ended up buying fork caps with Schrader valves in them to release the pressure. It's why I run Bel Ray, out of habit.....not that I ride anywhere near that level anymore. I'm sure ATF would work just fine.

I know the Qlink inverted ones required 330ml. I think Spud was using that much also on his Zong 200 but I can't find the posts easily.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...ong+fork+fluid


Is that the right one?

Indeed. I just did mine last week. I dumped out 320 figuring there was still about 10 inside and clinging to everything. Refilled with the same 320 and works like a champ! Did the same to the TT250 inverted forks.

Yep, that's the one. Thanks, hertz. So it looks like the fluid can be anywhere between 200ml and 330ml per fork depending on the size. The Zongs and Qlinks are also nice in that there are actual manuals available for them.

How much oil goes in the hawks forks ?

200 ml. I put 210 o firm it up a little.

So all I do is remove bolts from bottom of forks let it drain . Replace bolts and then refill with 200ml of fork oil . I've been reading about people haveing trouble getting bolts back in . Did you hawk give you any trouble ? I just wanna make sure I gotta grip on what I'm doing lol

That is correct. I had no problems with mine.

the bolts in the bottom of the forks hold the damping rods , not drain bolts..
they will drain them.. getting them out or back in can give probs as the damping rod
may start to turn with the bolt... " do you feel lucky ?"

Take them out of the bike tip the up and drain the oil out though the top...



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