Hawk 250 Overland Travel Bike?
 

Exploring my options. Departing for South America Late September of this year.
I currently ride a CB500X and CRF250L, both setup for travel. My trip is one way as far south as money, time and endurance will allow. The cost of shipping ether of my bikes back to the US is $$$$$$. I would not be able to resell them in SA with any hope of recouping my investment let alone the time and hassle associated with selling a US registered bike in a foreign land.

That brings me to the conclusion that an inexpensive China bike may be the answer. Cheap to buy and if necessary not a huge loss to abandon at the journeys end. I have explored the option of buying a bike in Peru and selling back to the seller and the trips end.

My Honda CRF250L sets the bar of what I'm looking for.
1. 180 mile fuel range
2. reasonably light weight
3. Capable of droning along at 60mph
4. Reliable
5. Capable of carrying me and my gear,approx. 300lbs

Now the $64000 question, "Is the Hawk 250 up to the task of a trip from Georgia USA to Ushaia, Argentina?" The trip will easily be 10000 miles. I am mechanically inclined and have always done all my own wrenching. The Hawk's simple design(carb, air cooled) is very attractive from a mechanical point of view. And the price is a very big plus.

Look forward to all opinions, especially owners.

I own a Hawk, while I have never ridden the CRF250L, I am quite sure it is a lot more motorcycle than the Hawk. While the Hawk would most likely make the journey, if you are expecting a motorcycle on par with a CRF250L, you will be disappointed.

Just guessing, but there is likely a huge disparity with the weight and power of each machine, the Hawk is much heavier and considerably less powerful, and for that reason does not reach the bar you have set.

Good point, my Honda with Stage1 makes about 21HP with 14 ft/lbs of torque. It weighs about 320lbs. It's no rocket ship but will cruise at 70mph.

south america
 

wait!
there is a mcyle dealer in peru that posts on the horizon board. he specializes in buying and fully prepping, documenting, and setting up one of several kinds of bikes for budget american travelers. you fly in to peru, ride around a bit till your papers arrive in your name then head out wherever u want.
If come back his way, he will buy the bike back. easy peasy.
one english couple has posted a blog on their whole trip, including chile and argentina etc.
lots of peeps have vouched for this guy, an expat. i think somewhere on this board someone posted his info.

very inexpensive, and extremely practical. let me try to run down his info
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...get-ride-76478

Yeah I've been in contact with Toby. The only downside of that is, I miss the joy of Mexico and the banana republics of Central America. His buy back program works on full purchase price minus $13/day, so after 120 days in SA the buy back will be $240 on a $1800 purchase price. So the price of the bike and an airline ticket. Totals $2007.

The cost of the Hawk is $1295, $400 to get across the gap. Total $1695

Yeah there will be costs to get from Georgia to Panama but that will easily be offset by the cost of getting back to Peru from Ushuia.

The biggest plus is if I have to bail due to illness,accident, whatever the Hawk is the winner there.

That sounds like a wonderful adventure! The good news is that style of engine is plentiful in Mexico, so service shouldn't be too much of a hassle. I'd certainly pack a bunch of spare parts, but I'd do it.


With a less restrictive intake and exhaust, don't expect a pushrod 223 to make more than about 18hp. You can achieve 60mph wrung out, but that's not sustainable. Plan on 50-55. You could regear a bit for top end, as long as you don't mind losing the bottom end.


A Mikuni and a pocket full of jets is a good plan, otherwise that little motor won't be able to breathe at extreme elevations. Jet swaps are relatively easy.

Thanks for the reply Weld. What type of spare parts are we talking about. The weight penalty on a small displacement is at a premium, so less is more. I'm working on the presumption that spare parts will be available in Latin America.

I wonder if Adam Renkleff (sp?) can figure out which 'brands' the Hawk is sold under in the countries south of the US border (for parts reference).

If you can figure out how to get to Yuma for cheap, you can start out from here since I am within spitting distance of two Mexican border crossings. The only catch I can see (depending on your point of view) is that the off-sight private offices that used to register bikes without the 1 hour wait and inspection of the state MVD no longer can register mail-order bikes, so you would have to go to the MVD office to have it inspected. My one issue I had with my TMEC was they had to call Excalibur Motorsports to confirm they sold the bike to me even though it was on the MSO. Fortunately, Excalibur always answers, AND the owner, Wade, took the call. The advantage is that you get a plate and the title once they physically inspect the bike, and send you on your way.

There is a place in Phoenix (easier to get to Phoenix than Yuma) that sells the Bashan 250 bikes, but those are offered at $1800 or so (plus tax and registration), but at least they PDI it. But getting kind of expensive. Not sure if you want to consider the CSC TT bike if the timing is right and the higher price could be justified (the initial batch is within range of higher end dealer prices of the Hawks and Bashans if I am not mistaken). However, you will have to pay for shipping, and if you opt to pick it up in southern California, they do not issue a plate and registration at the point of sale, so you will have to figure out how these can catch up with you (and if Mexico or any of the countries south of Mexico even allow a brand new, unplated bike)?!

Just some things to consider, and again, if you want to try Yuma, you are most welcome to come down this way and I could try to figure everything out from here. Again, the price of a bus ticket (and we do have expensive flights) from Phoenix might make this prohibitive, as well as going directly to Phoenix might make this NOT worthwhile for you.

What an awesome concept - I think my wife would divorce me for even thinking like that.

I don't have a lot of miles built up on mine, but I've done probably around 120-150 miles of "highway" or flat-out in 5th, with the last 10 or so after making a front sprocket change to 17T. I'm using the stock carb, and I weigh about 180lbs, so factor that in, but it struggles to push 60mph. Where I've been driving it, I'm not a traffic hazard, but if it was more populated where I had to drive it, I probably wouldn't - at least with my current setup.

With the stock 15T, it would top out 50-55, the 17T pushes that to 55-60. But it's complaining. Since it's not counter-balanced, pushing the red line, there's a good amount of vibration. Up to about 45mph in the lower gears, it doesn't really bother me, but topping it out in 5th above 50mph - it's annoying. I wouldn't say it "drones" along, more like "rattles" along. I really think you're starting to run up against the laws of physics and how much power you can squeeze out of it.

Now having said that, there are a couple of other folks on here that report running it upwards of 65mph or so. Hopefully you'll get a few more data points from them, but so far, I'm thinking that cruising at 60mph, full throttle in 5th will not be a relaxing way to drive 10k miles. A better carb/mix choice and/or gearing it even higher so that you cruise in the middle of 5th, then maybe.

A few posts about the top speeds, but keep in mind that pretty much anywhere south of the US border, 80 mph+ interstates are not the norm. There are many people on Horizonsunlimited taking trips on 125cc bikes and not once complaining they feel intimidated by the traffic anywhere in Mexico or Central or South America. A 229cc bike will be plenty, although I do believe a carb change (for the jetting) and gearing is in order as a matter of prep.

Thanks for the great reply.:thanks: My wife will probably divorce me if I don't go.:lmao:

Most of the "droning" would be in the US. Once I get south of the border I suspect that 50 will be more the top speed. Several years ago I toured southern Africa on a 650. It was total overkill, always ran below 60mph and picking up a 475lb bike in the sands of the Kalahari is not fun. I got home and immediately bought my CRF250L

Americans in general have a preconceived notion.that travel bikes must be capable of carrying a 100 lbs of gear and capable of 80mph and the ability to cover 600 miles a day. This is possible in the US where roads are good and road hazards are minimal.

I am looking for a cheap, disposable, lightweight 250cc class bike, new or used doesn't matter. I will go over it bolt by bolt and prep it for travel. I have searched Craigslist, Cycle Trader, etc. and used Japanese 250's are rarely found for less than $2500.

I too have concerns about vibes and 10000 miles, but still wonder if much of that can't be mitigated by tuning and gearing.

Giant Loop's motto is "Fast and light". My motto is "Cheap and light".:tup:

In Botswana if you would have ridden up on one of these, I would have traded my BMW straight up!

I may very well take you up of your offer. Starting from Yuma definitely has it's advantages. I have travelled across Texas enough in one lifetime.

The only problem I have with a fly and ride is getting the bike properly set up and broke in.

The CSC TT250 is very tempting. Having parts available with only a phone call and shipped immediately has value.

Would you be willing to find storage for my CB500X, I could ride it to Yuma and
save $$$$

Storage would be at my home, so no $. I can't promise a proper setup. I wonder if you could buy the CSC in California and ride it (or I guess have it shipped, but trying to save you money) to Yuma for registration? My only concern for you on the used Japanese bikes is what kind of abuse are they hiding; I mean, the one you actually buy (Murphy's Law). As well, what kind of abuse can a Hawk take? Many questions, and it will be fun to answer them!

Thank you for your kind offer. Wonder if I can have a Hawk drop shipped to Yuma and have the paperwork sent to Georgia and bring the plates and registration with me? Do you have a shop nearby where I can setup the bike, gearing,jetting, change oil etc?

Good question. Off the top of my head, I'd pack a new oil filter cap (you're going nowhere if you crack the one on your bike), a new CDI that you verified as good, a new reg/rec, a few 15A fuses, a few bulbs, two tubes, a handful of main and slow jets, some Permatex black RTV silicone, JB Weld, a new master link and a few links of chain, a chain breaker, chain & cable lube, Loctite, zip ties, wrenches to fit every bolt (including the swingarm, axles and oil filter cap), an NGK plug, a new coil with plug wire, several fuel filters, a small container of grease, air filter oil, a cable luber, a spoke wrench, tire spoons, a new petcock, a small wire stripper/crimper and a roll of Gorilla tape. I can't think of anything else right now.

I'd prep the bike before the journey with new Japanese sealed wheel bearings, new quality fuel line and a fuel filter (preferably made in USA), a quality pod filter (if the stock air filter doesn't seal 100%), grease on the swingarm bolt, a quality chain, Loctite on every bolt, repack the steering head bearings and double-nut where appropriate (like the chain adjusters, exhaust studs, etc.).

I'd also ensure that the stator harness is properly routed around the countershaft sprocket before ever riding the bike. I replace as many bolts as possible with stainless socket head cap screws, so I can use allen wrenches. I also pack extra fasteners and extra washers.

I know that's a lot, but I'd prepare like a good boy scout.

I didn't want to link the entire thread (it is epic!) about a guy who travels throughout the African continent with his surfboard. However, starting on page 6 (where I linked) and through page 7, the guy's friend met him in S. Africa and bought a Bashan Xplode (we don't have that model here, and with a name like that, I can see why!? :) ) and rode over 5000 miles from S. Africa to Zanzibar or Tanzania (not sure if they took the ferry?!). The only problem he had was a chain that stretched beyond what was useful, and the wheel was as far back as it would go. The part up to where he sold the bike is on page 7. The point is, his friend 'just went for it' and had few issues riding 5k miles in the African continent, and was able to sell it (not sure how much). Anyway, the part where they bought the bike in S. Africa is post 88.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...fboard-72401-6

Disclaimer--on a different continent and a different brand of Chinese bike, you results may vary...

Had a nice chat with Adam at RPS yesterday. He spoke with their head mechanic about my plans and the Hawk's ability to meet them. The mechanics only concern was piston seize from overheating on long high speed runs. In the heat. Wonder if an oil cooler could be rigged up. I know a guy who seized a piston on a Yammy 250 in Costa Rica. He did a top end in the parking lot of his hotel and scraped the cylinder walls with a knife to clean up the scoring. Made it all the way to Chile.:lmao:

There are two types of oil cooler for the CG motor that I've seen; one has a bypass valve, and the other does not. Either cooler provides a new valve cover, and it taps into the pressurized oil that feeds the valve springs. An IN and OUT fitting on the valve cover are then connected to supplied braided hoses (via banjo fittings), and then connected to the heat exchanger. There is at least a couple of heat exchanger sizes to choose from.


You'd have to cobble some mounting brackets together, but that would be the hardest part.


Here's one: http://world.taobao.com/item/1868825...1.14.77.YOji84

Brilliant Weld, thanks. The more I research Chinese bikes the more I like them, inexpensive parts and the awesome support of those community,

Sorry, I never answered you. We could do that in my carport, but the caveat is the desert HEAT this time of year. Then again, my wife was in Georgia last September and told me how hot and humid it was (and she knows heat living in this place!).

Yes it is hot in Arizona, but its a dry heat.:lmao: In Georgia it's kind of like being in a sauna. Arizona is like a convection oven.

OK, step 1 is complete, just placed my order for a black Hawk 250:). Now time to order parts:

1. Mikuni carb
2. Oil cooler
3. Stainless spokes
4. 17T countershaft sprocket
5. Jet assortment
6. Spitfire wind screen.

I doubt I'll have $200 in parts, gonna be my cheapest build ever, but then again that's the plan:clap:

I'll fab my own side racks to secure my GL Great Basin.

Hopefully I'll have the build done by the Virginia Horizon's meeting in May for a quick break in run

Good for you, Mark. :tup:

I'm looking forward to following your build, Mark.

Thanks Spud and Weld. This bike is going to be a blast to build and hopefully a success for it's chosen mission. I'm amazed at how inexpensive parts are. Plus the support on this forum is terrific. Will definitely share my experiences here.

The eagle has landed,excuse me, I mean the Hawk has landed. Wasn't expecting it till Friday. Ordered Monday from Dallas and it arrived today in Rabun County Georgia. Unfortunately I'm in Harrisonburg Va and won't get home till Friday. Heck I don't even no if I goth the stealthy black one or the faster red.

I am happy to read about this, but selfishly upset that you most likely will not be riding through Yuma :) . Seriously, I am happy to read of such a ride, because I have been thinking of setting low-budget tours from Yuma on Chinabikes, and the Hawk is about as low in price as one can go! I would be interested to know all the bolts you plan on replacing before the ride (or the ones you figure out that need replacing from your break-in riding).

Now, I need someone to copy your ride on a CSC TT, CSC RX3, and one of the Bashan 229cc enduros, and perhaps even on a Pitster Pro XTR (I have been eyeing one of those for my tax return...).

HiI am still planning on going through Baja and Yuma is on the way. I would still like to take you up on your hospitality. I would.love to sit down with you and discuss your rental/tour plans.

I'm almost embarrassed to quote how little this build will be. For less than the price of a set of Tourtech Zega Pros I'll be touring in style on my China Bike. Go far, Go slow, Go light.

That XTR seems overpriced seems like a Hawk with adjustable suspension. What makes it worth it just wondering. Now the LXR that is liquid cooled 4 valve oh I like that.

I believe that Pitster gets to oversee what their OEM does more so than most. I do think that their bikes might be a little high priced, but just by a little. If a Hawk was priced similarly, that would be too much. If I get the bike, I will definitely do a thread on it, and compare it to my TMEC 200, and/or Wolftrax's Hawk if he ends up coming this way.

I do hope to see you! Are you planning on a rear sprocket? I would think that even with a 17t countersprocket, the 56 is too much! My TMEC came with that setup as stock and I hated it. Even the 48 I ordered was a little too low.

Yes, I've already ordered a 17T counter and a 45T rear. Probably get a 16T a well. That will be a nice range to experiment with.

Don't forget shooting the 'chit' over a cold beer or six ;)
Oh and what gearing does Toby recomend?

Buen idea! No pense que de ese.

Probably cross the border for cold ones at the notorious Green Door bar in Algodones.

Snuck home a day early, had the bike delivered to my wife's place of business and the driver just plopped the container off right in front of the front door. :doh:

Anyway I got it uncrated and got the front wheel on so I can roll it and get it loaded on my trailer for the ride home this weekend.

Initial impressions:
-virtually every fastener is finger tight, which is OK since I want to inspect all of them any way
-the handlebars are garbage, they bend just looking at them:ohno:
-chain guard will more than likely be gone after a few mud baths:tdown:
-the bike is very compact and lightweight:tup:,
-big fuel tank:clap:
-super simple design, should be a joy to work on
-overall build quality acceptable
-my certificate of origin has no info on it, what's that about:shrug:

Going to put it together stock, break in for 500 miles, then get after setting it up for travel. I'm very pleased and optimistic this may be the ticket for a South America ride and dump'

I like it just like that without all the plastic on it.


/

From the angles, looks pretty nice without the plastics

That guy in Peru might be a good candidate, and who might actually pay you?!

Or, anyone who needs some form of transportation and cannot afford it would make a good candidate. Where are you planning on ending up?