New to everything, looking at a few bikes. . .
 

Greetings! I was directed here by "culcune" over at mychinamoto.com.
Because I'm lazy, I'll repost my original thread here:


I am a newcomer to the motorcycle world, as I have always loved them from afar, but never got too much into the culture and the mechanics until recently. I decided that since I would be new to riding, I would start out on a simple beginner type bike, and go from there later on. I had my eyes on a few models of "china bikes", and found this forum when doing background research on them. I know you fine people here probably get asked a veritable plethora of stupid questions, and possibly even a dusting of educated ones, so I hoped to cultivate a resource for an informed purchase down the road, and a place to share tech-tips, mods, and other info!

The bikes I'm currently looking at are fairly standard:

Sport Bikes:
JinLun JL250P-2
DONG FANG MC-D250RTC
Roketa MC-113

Cruiser Bikes:
Dong Fang D250RTD Streak
Lifan 250F V-Twin

Dual-Sport Bikes:
Lancer D250RTE-B

Any input would be greatly appreciated, as I have found videos, articles, and other publications on these bikes, but rarely mature, honest reviews of the bikes. The comments on videos are less than helpful, as the internet motorcycle trolls pipe up who've never owned one, but "totally had a friend who has one and it sucked and burst into flames and blah, blah, blah".

Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the forum.

Are you mechanically inclined? If not you may do better with a used Japanese bike.

Although CB's make excellent beginner bikes owning and maintaining one is for intermediates. As we say here sometimes, it takes a bit of a sense of humor, resourcefulness, and a community to run a CB. The community we provide, everything else you have to source ;-)

How much do you want to spend? If close to or over $2,000 we recommend a used Japanese bike.

Where do you live? Where do you plan to ride? On or off road or (as many of us prefer) both? Do you have ANY need to ride on the highway? If so a CB is NOT appropriate for you or safe. Again consider a used Japanese bike.

I don't want to discourage you, not at all. I like CB's a lot and have owned many, probably more than anyone else on this forum, but we want you to get what suits you best.

Give us more data and we will give you more advise.

FWIW unless you have a strong preference one way or another, even if you don't plan to ride off road at all I recommend the dual sport bikes.

Because, they are every bit as good on the road as the streetbike (styled, looking) genre, and much more capable and likely easier to take care of and find parts for. Like wise, when the time comes to sell, you'll have a larger pool of buyers.

I like the "Dual-Sport" look quite a bit. The Honda caught my eye, but its so darn expensive to buy and maintain. I'm open to other reccomendations, however I rarely have any large sums of money available and I refuse to finance a bike. The Vstrom is very nice, but very expensive, as they retain their resale value fairly well it seems. I'm going to be looking in a few more places for a bike before I resort to a full-on China bike, so I am keeping the option open.

I would never recommending borrowing money to buy a bike, or any luxury item for that matter. You are already smarter than 90% of Americans, and 99% of American government.

What is your budget?

Were are you?

I COMMONLY (I'm the King Of Craig's List :-) see good used Japanese D/S's in the sub $1,500 range here.

I just sold a perfectly clean like new Chinabike for I think $800, but new ones are closer to $2,000.

I've learned my lesson the hard way about borrowing, so I refuse to make the small problem of my debt even worse. My hard work will free me, not more debt! I wish the Government would learn that. . .:ohno:

As I will not borrow, my budget is around $1,000 and I may not be able to drop that immediately, so I don't want to waste anyone's timeif I can help it. If I have to wait a while to get a decent bike, I will. I can be patient.

I spent $800 for my used TMEC enduro. I have gone over 8000 miles in the year and couple months I have owned it. I don't know how many miles it had prior to me. I have had to change a few things here and there, but Excalibur, the exclusive distributor, have always had what I needed. I would buy another one, but I think they retail for $1700, but that includes shipping.

Welcome; we are glad you joined us. :hi:

Somebody, I think it was Recracer, posted a great Craigslist deal on a Zongshen 200GY-2 motorcycle for $250. You can find good deals on Chinese bikes, as well as Japanese bikes. ;)

Of the bikes you listed, the Lifan 250F V-Twin gets good reviews. :) Have you found dealers for these bikes? If so, please post a link to the vendor, and we can give you more advice. If you haven't looked for dealers, I suggest you do so. The bikes you listed might not be easy to purchase if you haven't already found a dealer. ;)

$1,700 for a TMEC delivered is a good deal. Remember you also have to budget for tax, license, insurance, etc. though.

The Virago clones are excellent bikes, but I thought they were closer to $3,000.

CL is your friend...

Link to distributor, please?


I'd love to look at the TMEC more, however Google fails me when I look for the "Excalibur" distributor mentioned above. :wtf: Never been so stymied by a motorcycle. . . LOL!

As for the Virago Clones, are there any other manufacturer names I should look for besides DongFang?

http://www.extreme-scooters.com/lifa...Motorcycle.htm

I'm not familiar with that particular dealer; however, he seems to carry a lot of different Chinese motorcycles. :)

He lists the Roketa DB-05H as selling for $1,199, with free delivery. If he honors that price, I think that's a pretty good deal. :)

http://www.extreme-scooters.com/motorcycleStore.htm

http://store.oohla.com/storefiles/te...6070900763.jpg

I wouldn't have any problems whatsoever getting a license plate for the DB-05H in Idaho. However, you might have problems elsewhere. ;) Where do you live? We can help you determine if you will have problems with the local DMV.

I agree with FastDoc. I think you will be happiest if you choose a dual sport motorcycle. :)

I linked to Excalibur on mychinamoto.com; www.atv4usa.com
They won't sell directly to the public IF there is a brick and mortar dealer nearby. Otherwise, they will sell you one directly.

There is a dealer in Florida selling TMECs as Denali-TMEC. They are called Ocala Atv in Morristown. I don't know Florida, so don't know how close or far they are to you. www.ocalaatv.com. They are listed at $1899, which is getting further out of range for you, but I would negotiate down, and out the door. I am not a fan of the lettering they put on the bike. I do know that TMECs are DOT/EPA certified for 49 states, so registration is no problem in all states but California ( ironic that Excalibur are out of Cal.). If you call Excalibur, you will speak with either Alan or the owner, Wade. Both have heavy Chinese accents, but both understand English very well. Tell them 'Simon' sent you. I have had the pleasure of stopping at Excalibur to pick up some body panels and an ignition on the way home to Yuma from L.A. They are good business people, especially considering the sub-par quality inherent with Chinese bikes.

I am of the opinion that a single-cylinder bike is a much better learning tool than a twin. The Dong Fang bobber is a single, and has a good following as evidenced by the huge thread on mychinamoto. 'Barnone' started that thread, and is a member here if you had a chance to read any of that thread.

Ok, that Roketa Enduro looks pretty decent. I hate the beak on it, but style is second to functionality, I guess. LOL! I do, however worry about its ability to handle "highway" driving. I don't want to blow a hole in the top-end after a few days of driving on US-19. LOL!

culcune, the TMEC-Denali 200 looks pretty darn nice. You mention you have/had one, what was/is your impression of it? Is it a good "daily rider"? Are parts difficult to find? Are there any mods for it, or after-market support?

I'm also doing more hunting on Craigslist, so I may chime in with something there when I find it.

Thanks so much for your help, guys! I appreciate it!:thanks:

EDIT:
I found a thread on here for the Roketa: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=8280

In my opinion it is unsafe to ride any 200cc, air cooled, carbureted motorcycle on limited access highways or interstate highways. :ohno: If you want to do this kind of riding, you need at least a Kawaskai Ninja 250 or Honda CBR250R.

If the speed limit doesn't exceed 55 mph, the Roketa DB-05H will work for you. I have inspected the TMEC bikes up close, and they are decent motorcycles, but they are not worth $500 more than the Roketa DB-05H. ;)

If you dislike the 'beak' on the Roketa, you can easily install a new front fender and/or headlight. I like the Polisport Universal Supermoto fenders. :tup:

If the vendor will honor the $1,199 price, including shipping, that is one of the best deals on Chinese motorcycles I have seen in a while. ;) Once you start approaching $2,000, you are better off to look for good deals on slightly used, Japanese motorcycles. If you want to ride limited access highways, forget about Chinese bikes, and start looking for a good deal on a Kawasaki Ninja 250. ;)

Brilliant advice. People who have been around for a while, know that I personally was almost killed riding a 200 cc Zong bike on the highway,. Although I was doing close to the speed limit, I was still rear-ended by a girl talking on her cell phone at 65 miles an hour. I was unable to accelerate and avoid her. I saw her coming at me in the rearview mirror, and there was nothing I could do

Thanks for even more input!

I've found something:http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/mcy/4289142361.html

My roommate says we'll look at motorcycles tomorrow at the Salvage yard, where he swears they have a pile of decent motorcycles for next to nothing with titles available. I'm pretty decent with a wrench, and I have Google, so I think it may be worthwhile. Stop! Before you hit "Quick Reply" and type "Oh God! No! That's a terrible idea filled with death, fire, evil, and debt!" , remember: I'm extremely OCD, I know what a microfiche is, and where to get them, and I have a real motorcycle shop less than 20min away if I get in over my head. ;)

Thoughts?

Very few people, if any, on these forums will steer you away from the salvage yard. ;) We are interested to see what you discover. However, the Zongshen bike in your link is grossly overpriced, and I personally wouldn't persue it. ;)

Agreed. I picked one up in similar condition for $250 last year, and it has been a terrific performer. $1200 is ridiculous.

You must be thinking of a different forum, if you're concerned about backlash because of shopping at a salvage yard. Most of us would be quite efficient enablers.

+3 on the above points. Don't get between Kato and a lawnmower pile for instance.

I also agree on that Zong. That one is not a Yamaha based one like Spuds, rather it's an ordinary Honda clone. A Hondoid.

Worth $400 on a good day.

I don't even think it's a 'good day' for that Hondoid. ;) The seller admits the bike is having problems idling, and the tail light is broken. In addition, it needs a new battery. :ohno:

Ah! I've always had people tell me to stay away from salvage bikes, along with horror stories abound about how its dangerous and blah, blah, blah. I'm glad to hear that's not the case here. I'm glad you all chimed in on that Hondoid Enduro clone, I thought it was just me who thought it was overpriced for what it was.

I have actually bought a salvage bike. 1983 Honda Shadow 750. Only needed cosmetic items replaced. Bars, instruments, headlight etc. Also fork seals. I rode it and sold it for a profit. It was great bike that got 60mpg.

Not sure how FL titles salvage vehicles. Minnesota at the time was easy. It was a matter of a quick inspection to verify everything worked and a new title issued.

If you go the salvage route check what FL requires.

I would look for a honda, yamaha, suzuki, or kawasaki dual sport. Parts are cheap and they should be easy to repair. The big thing to look for is a bent frame. Look around the steering neck for cracked paint and check all the welds for cracks.

There are 2 main ways a bike winds up in a salvage yard. Wrecked and neglected.

A wrecked bike, almost by definition, was RUNNING when it was wrecked. Assuming the engine was not wrecked it will run again. A bike like this may be a good deal.

A undamaged bike that was NEGLECTED may be harder/more expensive to repair.

Just a thought.

BTW my first D/S bike (other than the KLR's) was a 1996 XR250L that I bought in 1998. It was almost new but was 'wrecked'.

An Acerbis front fender, some Renthal bars, and a headlight/instrument cluster off an XL650, a seat cover, and a Clarke gas tank, a seat cover, and I was good to go. About $1,500 for the almost new bike, about $350 for the repairs and I had an almost new bike that I enjoyed for tens of thousands of miles.

Go for it!

I ride my TMEC on roads that are limited to 50 mph, but w/o law enforcement, some cars are at 70+ mph, but most are at 60 mph. I had to go back to the 56 tooth rear sprocket, and it will keep up (or in some cases , hold up, LOL) 60 mph traffic.

The only reason I would consider another one is that I know my '09 model did well, and the '13 models should, in theory, be a little better. Plus, I have stopped by Excalibur in person, and they have always had the parts I needed. I bought it used without a side panel, and a month after I bought it, the ignition switch wouldn't work anymore (like I mentioned, I don't know how many owners the bike had been through prior to me, or how long it sat in the elements before I bought it--plus, the speedo cable was already broken, so don't even know how many miles the beast had).

I now have around 8,000 miles or so that I put on it. It is not the greatest bike, but not the worst. I might have overspent at $800 used since the guy had no one else to sell to since the bike is not California legal (they are definitely 49 state legal--I have seen the EPA list with all the '13 bikes that have passed EPA certification for street bikes, and Excalibur are not lying when they say 'DOT' legal), but that is my opinion. I am considering a new one simply because it would be mine from the beginning, and I could prep it properly, as well as lube the speedo cable (all Chinese bikes seem to have this problem) from assembly.

I would definitely get a 48 tooth sprocket made by JT Sprockets; the closest I have seen them offered is the UK. I had custom ordered a 40 tooth sprocket for my bike for $55, but with several chain failures, I believe the source was the sprocket. The JT one is close to stock as it is made in steel vs. aluminum, or alloy the custom was made from. There is one UK Ebay dealer selling them for $45 including shipping to the US. Again, that is my only planned modification if I get a new one--at least for now. I might look into one of the popular Ebay carbs that are advertised as 'mikuni' 30mm vs. the stock 'Sheng Way' 30mm stock. There is really not much else to do with the bike. As well, I don't know if I would go with knobby tires vs. the street tires. I do want to know if the knobbies are the 18"/18" front/rear wheels because I really don't like the look of the 21"/18" knobbies Excalibur shows on its site. The Denali bike seems to have the 18/18 setup, though, at ocalaatv.com

I do believe the asking price of the Denali is a little high, vs. ordering directly IMO, although you do need to do some assembly if you mail order. BTW, I spoke with the main sales guy, Alan, at Excalibur, and he is not familiar with Ocala ATV, but believes that they probably get their bikes from a company called mefast www.mefastmotors.com which makes sense since mefast is out of Georgia, and Ocala has a dealership in Georgia.

Anyway, I would say that TMECs are decent bikes for the price, and I can vouch for Excalibur. In fact, about 5 or 6 years ago or so ago, they used to bring in Shineray bikes like the one you showed on craigslist, as well as Roketa made bikes (similar to that $1200 one Spud linked). The Shineray-made Speedee had several people buy them who became members on Chinariders. Those members are long gone, but Excalibur are still in business.

The consideration factor--these are bikes that are decent bang-for-the-buck. They are not equal in quality to any of the Japanese brands. They are almost 'delicate' in nature, meaning if you are the first owner, you will know everything about it, but if you are a second or more owner, you will not know this. I would personally buy another TMEC simply because I could get one on the road for about 10% what a brand new compact car costs (on sale, lower-end model) meaning less than the down payment on such a car. I ride mine year round 32 miles round trip Monday through Friday to work and back.

If you are planning harder riding, consider a higher-end Chinese enduro (Qlink or SSR) although much, much more out of your range, or a used Japanese dual-sport. Of course, the best deals as Spud and Doc mentioned can really only be found in the Northwest based on the Craigslist I peruse including L.A. to S. California and Yuma and Phoenix (about my realistic range of purchase). There are lower-priced dual sports, such as $1500 Yamaha XT 220's, but those are often 1989 to 1993 models.

@_@
That's some stellar feedback culcune! I shall definitely keep it under consideration! I don't know why, but I'd feel like a jerk bashing their asking price down at a dealership. . . maybe I'm too timid. LOL
I'm going to keep my eye on that Craigslist ad and if its still there around tax time, I'll offer him around $600. It's more than fair, I think, based on the above advice from Spud and Doc. :)

I sold my last HSUN 200 in like new condition with no cosmetic or mechanical issues with about 750 miles on it for about that. It was a nice bike that I had personally worked the kinks out of. I hope it will provide Melody (the gal who bought it) with a long and happy service life.

I wouldn't consider it 'bashing' the asking price down, lol. Call Excalibur and see what they can get you one directly for (just for your own research), including shipping.

If you can get the Zongshen for $600, that would be your best deal, although you will need some things for it. Batteries can be mail-ordered for pretty low prices, although I don't know if the taillight is simply a bulb or something more. Idling? These things never idle correctly, LOL.

Ok.:)

As for the idle, have you considered looking at the jets in the carb? Just a thought.:shrug:
It reminds me of an issue I had with my Motorized Bicycle I built that had a similar issue, and I needed to fiddle with the carb and allits components to get it running smoothly. My 2 cents. . . LOL
Anyways! Looks like my roomie and I will be going to the Salvage Yard next weekend, so we'll see what's there!:D

I just so happened to call them today myself... No one answered the phone after 10am on a saturday so I thought it kind of funny.

Tried back again a little later and some guy answered the phone with a "hey" and nothing else.... asked if he was Ocala ATV and he said yes.... kids screaming in the backround and a tv on.... he said he has the shop phone sent to his house to answer.... sounds fishy to me

Asked about his "Denali" version and claims he designed them and sells them... I asked how much to ship it to SC and he had no clue at all.... asked him how he ships and he had no clue at all.... VERY fishy

He said he could meet me in Atlanta next week and give me one if we meet somewhere there.... EXTREMELY fishy

in my humble opinion..... RUN RUN RUN RUN FAR FAR FAR FAR away and do not deal with this guy.... do not send him money or try to make a deal with him!!!

He said it was better if I meet him and get the bike that way.... obviously this guy is running a home business... that is IF IF IF he even has a TMEC to sell you or he just takes your money

He ummmm wanted the money before meeting me in Atlanta too..... I think that says it all folks

Besides, his bike is more expensive than ordering directly from Excalibur. He might not be lying about 'designing' the bike--as far as the graphics go. The actual bike is a cloned xr 125 motard that is sold in Europe. You can Google image them, or find them on a European country's Honda site.

He probably gets them from a distributor called mefast www.mefastmotors.com (who is out of Georgia) who get them from Excalibur.

I don't think Ocala ATV is a scam, but it does sound like he is running it out of his home. It might be worth a look if you can actually get to him in person(I don't think he is a mail-order outfit) just to see one before purchasing it (not that you have to buy from him). My guess is that he does not want to drive clear to Atlanta without cash in hand, but that is definitely not the way I would want to do business if I was interested in purchasing a bike.

Good info, steve, I will do more research on them!

culcune, I don't care how nice his stickers are, if he costs more to buy than direct from the factory, I'll avoid him. If he's good, and just marking up, I won't feel as bad knocking the price down a bit.
:thanks:

I could be wrong here, so forgive me if I am... but he is selling a bike for $1899 plus shipping when I could purchase it for $1600 which includes shipping to my front door.

$299 for a couple stickers he puts on the bike is craziness to me

Sadly, he wants $299 plus shipping for his stickers. :wtf:

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Those stickers better be gold-plated! The hell is wrong with that guy?:crazy:

I believe he probably doesn't ship--he seems to be a physical dealer rather than a mail-order outfit, although he will travel...if you pay for the bike first?!

I just think it would be worth it if someone is in his craigslist zone to drop by and see the bike in person; unless he charges for the 'privilege' LOL. No one is forced to pay anything (usually) before setting foot in most any dealership, nor are forced to actually purchase anything, so that is why I thought it would be worth a stop.

There is a guy here in Yuma who purchased a couple TMECs and a couple scooters from Excalibur and sells them out of his house. However, he doesn't have a website, but rather uses craigslist. He was asking $2200 for the 200! However, he hi-balls the price, and expects haggling. He has sold a few bikes mostly to snowbirds. I called him and we compared notes.

The good thing about Excalibur, at least for the past few years, is they have connections and contact with the manufacturers out of China, and stock parts for their bikes. I just ordered a new ignition module and spoke with Alan, the sales manager, and it sounds like they are going to order another container of the TMEC 200. He was asking advice as far as anything I could think of, including the color of the wheels, and I told him to keep the silver, neutral color (I have a red front wheel, and gold rear wheel mismatch when I needed a new wheel from my rear sprocket debacle [my fault]). I told him to get 48 tooth rear sprockets for the bikes, stock, but I have a feeling that we will be stuck with 56 tooth rears based on their chain size.

I'm glad to hear so much good info coming from Excalibur, I will definitely work at getting a TMEC from them if possible!:tup: I looked at the Ocala dealer recently and I wasn't impressed by what I saw. It looked like it was a backwoods dirt lot instead of a professional dealership. I'm very discriminating on where I spend my dollar, and if the dealership doesn't look presentable and professional, I will not go there. I've had too many bad experiences to waste my time otherwise.:ohno:

How's the build quality of the TMEC? I know you spoke of it's general "goodness", but how sturdy is it? How does it hold up to the road? Are the frame members sturdy? Any other info?

Not to complicate things guys...

By pure chance, I just now found the Denali version at a dealer in Georgia

http://www.lakelanierpowersports.com...82&used=1&vin=

Thoughts???

Oooh. . . Very nice!:)
This certainly has my attention. . .

I would check it out in person, if I were you. That price is much better, than the 'backwoods' dealer!

I think that one has to keep an open mind with most any Chinese bike. These things tend to be 'delicate' vs. their much higher priced mainstream counterparts. They seem to have at least one of the specs wrong if these are the same bikes that Excalibur distributes--the tank is 3.1 gallons, not 1.3 gallons. A plus--it is metal.

The plastics are much better attached than an old Chinabike I used to have in 2006, a Jetmoto GY-200. They are fairly brittle, however (mine are still in good shape).

I will try to find out more about these Denalis. Excalibur is supposed to be the official US distributor for TMEC, but they sell them to a distributor out of Alabama (I had mistakenly thought they were out of Georgia) called mefast. Mefast distributes TMECs scooters (Excalibur, ironically, does not carry TMEC scooters anymore due to quality issues) as well as a few others. Alan, the head of sales, believes these Denalis are from mefast since he has not heard of Denali (i.e. no one has bought several from him at Excalibur to rebrand them). I doubt anyone imports these around Excalibur, but stranger things have happened (I am guessing that none of you recall the big 'American Lifan' vs. "gray" Lifan controversy of 2007 or thereabouts on Chinariders?). Make sure these are EPA/DOT legal for street registration although Florida and/or Georgia might be as lax as Arizona is where one could register a motorized bar stool provided it has a minimum of street legal equipment. Like I said, these TMECs are EPA/DOT legal for 49 states, and could be registered in 50 (California) if the owner owned it prior, and physically moved to California from another state where it was registered.

Again, if they are in physical proximity to either of you, check them out to see up close and in person if you think they are worth buying. I would buy another (and plan to do so) but know what I am getting into. Plus, I only ride it to and from work (32 miles roundtrip), so it is essentially a cheap form of year-round transportation for me on 50 mph or less roads and streets. I do have a 'fantasy' trip down the Baja peninsula to Cabo San Lucas thought of one of these months/years, but you will all hear and read about that one...

Thanks for the info! More to keep in mind. . .:)

What happened? I'd love to have the extra reading.