how to tell if a motor is seized? with pictures
 

i have just picked up a scooter for$ 80 they said it was seized..

so how do I tell if the motor is truly seized?

also does anyone know how to tell the cc of the motor, it has no cc markings on the block.

it is called Dadogs, i think it is titled as a 125cc but i cant find any markings.

and the only replacement scooter motors on ebay are 150cc or 110cc.


so i took everything off the motor (spark plug, exhaust,carb) then put a wrench on the output shaft and manually turned the motor and it is very difficult to turn,( i would say 50-100 ft lbs on my torque wrench.

so questions

is there a rebuild kit for this motor? is that what it would need? a new piston/parts

or
if i bought a 150cc scooter off ebay would it bolt right up to the cvt transmission on this scooter?

if i got a 110cc off ebay would it bolt right up to the existing transmission?

HERE ARE PICS OF THE MOTOR

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8-06222850.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8-06222930.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8-06222826.jpg

All I can say for sure is that its a 125. The marking shows up in one of your pics "124cc"

take the head off (the part with the valve rockers and cam chain) and take a picture of the piston and cylinder. then you may be able to tell

Yep, gotta getta look at the cylinder walls. From your description of how the motor moves, though, it sure sounds like it did seize.

As far as what will bolt in, you'll need measurements of the motor-mounts from both engines to see if they match up.
Here's all I could find on : FIFIC Motors
And this about Dado Scooters
Looks like they've not been around since '04 or '05.

As FastDoc said, it's a 124, in the pic.
Bill

thanks everyone. can anyone tell me for sure what motor will bolt right in?

take an picture of the overall motor from further back

X2.

It looks like a horizontal Honda clone, but a total engine shot will tell us for sure.

Here are the engine measurements:

1st set of pictures, paying specific attention to the forth (motor mount) picture:

http://www.discountscooterparts.com/E1000.htm

Now that we have determined a 150cc GY6 engine will fit in there, you have to measure your case length:

Long case (11.25 inches)

http://www.partsforscooters.com/150c...&category=8423

Short case (9.5 inches)

http://www.partsforscooters.com/150c...category=84231

(there is a shorter case, but it would be a buggy motor, and not suitable for a scooter)

And yes, it would be nice to put a 250cc engine in there, but it won't fit, and is water cooled.

if you have access to welding and cutting tools, you can make almost anything fit..

Thanks for the links Reveeen. I had no idea that the GY6 was available in two lengths; is the larger meant to accomodate a bigger diameter wheel?

3 lengths actually, the really short ones are used for buggies/trikes, the shorter of the two (9.5 inch) can accommodate up to a 12" wheel with a low profile tire/ 10 inch high profile is "the usual", the longest one will do a 13" wheel with a high profile tire/14" with a low profile tire.

The "preferred" one for swaps is the long case, though if you wanted stealth, the shorter one will fit better where a 50cc used to be.

The 250 is a water cooled vertical motor. You WILL lose any under seat storage and you will have to hang a rad and plumbing somewhere. At some point the exercise becomes pointless, though this might be more to your liking:

http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk...ge.php?pid=105

RG500

Whoa! An RG500 in a Lambretta? 8O Good luck stopping.

Here's my favourite Vespa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIl9oLGx1o It's in Spanish and Italian, but you'll get the idea.

Blow up the pictures.....those guys @ Lambretta Innovations have a pretty good handle on the business of stopping.

I like their 50cc Vespa:

http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk...age.php?pid=23

http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/...ine.Models.htm

From what I gather, scooter design does not make for reliable air cooling of big motors (big in size, or horsepower)

How long has Wild Alaskan been building Vespas? :roll:

here are some pics of the motor

.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8-09161109.jpg

..

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8-09161123.jpg

so this is a 125cc. will a 150 just bolt right in. as long as i get the right leginth motor?

thanks again everyone:)

The 150 should bolt in. There is top mounted style and bottom mounted style too I think.

Looks like you have a top mount. Just match up the mounting points on yours to the replacement and get the right length and you should be good to go.

Allen

so does anyone know if i can just buy this and bolt it right on to my existing motor?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_3146wt_702

According to the man they call Reveeen, you have a GY6. Therefore, the eBay big bore kit would seem to be a match.

That said, I don't know for sure, but I'd try it at that price.

Maybe................

Many times, because the bore is bigger, the part of the cylinder that enters the case is bigger than the original. This means you have to strip the case and take it (and your new cylinder) to someone capable of boring the hole (in your case) bigger. Not too many shops can do this.

I am not certain on the 125-150 swap, I know this needs doing on the 150-180 swap, so I am guessing that this will have to be done in your situation.

Have you torn the engine down? Best to make sure that it does not have any damage to the bottom end first.

Allen

thank you all, i dont know what route i will take, being that I have 250 into the bike and i might if lucky be able to get 700$ for it running, i dont know if i want to put a new 300$ motor in it.

You may be able to get by with a new top end. Was it run low on oil?

not sure why the motor seized. i bought it that way. the motor isnt totally seized,,just very tight to turn by hand with a breaker bar with the plug, valve cover and exhaust off.

def thinking of this, auction says no machining,just bolt right in



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/gy6-b...s#ht_816wt_911

remove your top end and try turning the motor with the breaker bar.. if it is still has hard to turn then its the bottem end that is the problem.. the crank and connection rod should spin VERY freely..

that listing says 58.5mm bore, what is your stock bore ?

well, I took pictures and the motor out and apart,,, but the pics didnt survive :( so here is what i know. it is the large motor as it is 11.5 inches mount hole to shaft. so I took the top end out and...


there was crap on one rod that holds the cylinder in but it was not magnetic as per my neo magnet. so


the cylinder walls were smooth and the rings were beautiful so took off the lower part and no problems (ps. it is over-sized from the actual cylinder so I dont think any machining will be necessary if i upgrade to the 150cc.


ok for the fun, with all the cylinder off and the piston off. the crank still is tough . i did pinpoint it to the connecting rod of the cylinder. with everything off that is the only thing that is tight at the "main shaft" (ill call it that, it is inside the motor a bolt that goes from one side of the motor to the other))

well I got both nuts off that and made a makeshift pulley to pull off the alternator but it wouldnt pop off. so im stuck with that.

I was going to try to grind that (the cylinders rod )) down till it moved freely but could not get the left side off to get the main motor open.

any comments would help.

if i read that correctly, sounds like crank bearings.. do not grind anything to make it fit better. it should fit just fine and if it does not then there is a problem..

go to youtube and do a search for atv motor rebuild.. look for the 3 part video series from rockymountain about rebuilding the bottem end.. once the piston is off the crank and connection rod should spin super easy..

I'm following some of your post, but not all of it. I'm a bit confused when you start talking about grinding something, it sounded like you were grinding the connecting rod? Maybe I'm just confused, and misunderstanding.

If you have crud inside your engine that looks metallic but isn't magnetic, it is aluminum and is likely from two sources, your piston or your bearings. Since you say your rod is tight on the crankshaft it's eaten the bearing (as mizke said) and is the reason it will not turn. If it's that bad, you'll likely need a new crankshaft and rod. You will have to disassemble everything to change that.

Your rod should be held onto the crankshaft by two bolts, but would be hard to access from the cylinder side. You will likely need to remove it completely before getting to the bolts. On a car, you can get to it by turning the motor upside down and removing the oil pan, but on motorcycle/scooter engines that is not possible.

Good luck and would love to see photos if you can get it working.

Only a guess, but I presume that all of the bearings are rollers (not babbit), so the aluminum is more likely piston material or maybe case material, if the timing chain was rubbing on the case.

BTW, there is a flywheel puller available on eBay for around $8.00.

Rod bearing a roller??

The mains I'd expect rollers but never seen that on a rod bearing before.. not that I'm not here to learn something new.

When you're over next, I'll show you the roller rod bearings on my old TS100.

I can't wait. :)

damn it, wish i could come over.. i need more then 1 friend who is into power sports.. even my 1 friend who has a dirtbike does not like riding with me and my atv.. says im to slow..

i swear i ever hit the lotto my house is going to be an adult play ground.. buy 200 acres of land, with a moon bounce, big ol swimming pool with a blob, grotto, water slides, atv trails, and a really long drive way for the spirited driving, skid pad for drifting fun, gun range, a pet bob cat, ugh just need 60 million bucks to make it happen..

Usually you only see roller bearings in the bottom ends of 2 cycle engines, how else would the fuel-oil mix suspended in air lube the bearings? (*think* roller bearings, or ball bearings, will not hold oil under pressure worth crap, to lube the rest of the engine)

The "Usual" for 4 stroke engines is a a "plain" bearing, or a "babbitt" bearing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_%28metal%29

The main feature is this bearing will hold oil pressure and allows the entire engine to be lubricated with a single, simple, oil pump.

Some hybrids do exist, but they are few, and far between, and certainly not in most of our price range.

I don't believe the rod is removable from the crank on these engines.

You have to buy it as a unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=330428766733


Sounds like you just need a new crankshaft and piston rod.

Looks like you're right. Crankshaft is a press together I think I read somewhere.

That link you sent is good, that one is 'high performance' 8O

It would seem that the engine I'm working on is unusual; check out item #5: http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-ts100-19...ist/85706.html

wow, thanks everyone. I think I will buy a new complete motor. It will be easy, new, and my old one will have many parts for the new one. so last question anyone have one for sale. it is a long .

less than ebay $300 shipped

what about this?? it seems you can buy just the rod

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gy6-M...ltDomainQ5f100