Toughest frame/suspension/seat for fat dues
 

Hello! I'm a longtime listener, first time caller. You have a great forum here!

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a new china 250 enduro. I have been looking at the $1500-$2000 bikes on several sites and they all look the same. As the title implies, my primary concern is getting a bike that is big and tough. I'm 6'1" 260, and looking for a bike that that likes being ridden hard by a fat dude. A tall seat (35-36") and 21"/18" wheels are also a must.

I have some experience with chinese bikes from owning a couple large "touring" scooters a decade or so ago. Unfortunately the suspension was one of the (many) weak points on these. I'm a pretty good wrench and feel like I know what I'm getting into with the repairs/tuning/mods/fab etc... but looking for the sturdiest base to start from.

My short list at the moment is Hawk, Rocketa DB08, and BMS 250 CRP. I have found quite a bit of info on the Hawk, but less on the BMS, and almost nothing on the Rocketa. From what I piece together, the BMS has the best fit and finish, but that is not necessarily what I'm going for. Likewise, I understand CSC makes a great bike, but a premium turn-key experience is not my primary consideration. I need tough.

The Hawk is appealing as it has the highest advertised seat height I've seen. The EFI would also be a nice touch as I live at about 6,000' elevation and tuning a carb for everywhere I may ride becomes a full-time job. If the consensus is "They're all the same", I will probably buy the Hawk. If anyone has experience with some others to make a recommendation for better frame and suspension, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

The Standard Hawk I can speak for. I weigh basically what you weigh, and I know how to make a standard Hawk work. The DLX, Brozz, TT250, and BMS all have USD forks, which to date nobody has delved into as I have with the spaghetti thin standard Hawk forks in order to figure out any sort of spring info in order to find something off the shelf from the aftermarket that might work, or even the basic length and diameter info to at least have custom springs made. I do know that, unlike the standard Hawk, which has stupidly long dual rate springs with a very high secondary rate, so just doing preload spacers works even for big guys, I have heard others state that the USD fork springs are a bit on the light side, so even with preload adjustments they don't work well for those on the heavy end, but I can't speak from any personal experience.

Out back most of the bikes are more or less the same non-link shock mount, with there being some variations in length, but otherwise utilizing similar spring weights, so at least in that aspect you would be covered.

Thanks Megadan, that's some good info. I have not considered the older Hawks with the conventional forks, but you might make me think about it. I see they are still available on ebay, probably elsewhere too if I look harder. Do you have any issues with your rear suspension bottoming out? How has your seat held up?

Welcome roadKill,

On the Bashan side of town, the MotoMax seems to be most sturdy and has the beefiest frame. It is set up more for the road but strip her down naked and she will be like the rest. I would suggest a tire upgrade to something more 50/50 though.

Here is the video of the Brozz taking some hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpSNpqRWy0A

That video combined with the torture test video of a Hawk and collective input from this community convinced me beyond all doubt that a Chinese bike would last as long as i want it to

I am 6'2" and just got a TBR7. Its really high. I just barely sit flat footed with the shock adjustment in the middle.

Chinese USD forks look neat but lack function and tech. They are also usually very heavy. Conventional chinese forks have come a LONG way and are on par with japanese forks when correctly tuned.

Chinese USD forks are for looks. They do not perform as well as a correctly tuned set of chinese conventional forks. They will leak within a year and most of them arent worth rebuilding.

My USD forks behaved much better when i changed the oil to 15W.. But leak within a year? Say it aint so please

Just changing to a good fork oil and the right capacity will make a huge difference in any china fork.

Go outside, feel your stanchions. If they are wet they are already leaking. The problem is that with USD forks it can all leak out before you notice much.

Study the rebuild.procedure for your forks, if there is one. When they do start leaking, and yes they will, put japanese bushings and seals in them.

High quality usd forks have inherent benefits such as.lighter weight, sprung and unsprung, more rigidity which means more consistency as well. Also they have less leveraged contact so there is less friction and therefore also less "sticktion". *sp?*

However as I mentioned before, a lot of chinese usd forks are not built well. They are generall very heavy and not valved for any specific application.

I know nothing about the Brozz forks specifically. For all I know they are good forks.

Thanks for that info and heads up.. So far so good, no leaks but will keep an eye on things as usual and look into the rebuild whenever that time comes

Thanks for sharing that idle-purr, that's a great video! I asked about frame strength and that's about as direct of an answer as you can get. I have read a bit about the brozz and it sounds like a great bike. Unfortunately the seat height and wheel size keeps it off my short list.

The discussion on conventional forks being superior to inverted surprised me. I would have fallen for it and assumed the inverted shocks were an upgrade feature. But I follow the explanations and will trust the experience here. This has me thinking the Rocketa DB41 might be a good choice for me. It appears to to be a Bashan produced bike with big wheels, tall seat, and conventional forks.

https://www.roketa.com/product/produ...=0&proID=59831

Does anyone see anything they don't like about it? The only thing I don't like is the price is in range with the Hawk with EFI, and this doesn't have EFI. Does anyone have experience with the Hawk EFI to know how good that system is?

It's almost exactly like a new Hawk or TBR7. I can recommend a TBR7 without a doubt. Basically comes down to what size wheels and what kind of tires you want it to come with.

The TBR7 looks like a total steal! I wish I wasn't hung up on the taller wheels ...

Now, these Chinabikes can accommodatie a fat dude with the proper suspension and settings. If we're talking about fat dudes/duos however, then maybe a large cruiser or bagger would be a better option. Gotta keep that load:bike weight ratio as low as possible ;)

N.B.: the guy in the pic (powerlifter Kyriakos Grizzly) definitively counts as two fat dudes all by himself. Most bikes probably can't handle him alone, let alone him + a passenger (esp. one in his own weight league, ~200 kg)

I kept going back and forth between the Hawk and various Bashan products to the point I was ready to go to the local honda dealer and let them suck out my blood. It's less than ideal to make a decision on products you can't personally inspect before buying, but I'm sure I am preaching to the choir here. Anywho, I got sick of overthinking this and ordered the standard Hawk. $1371 from powersportsmax with discounts for military (retired) and paying by cashier's check. Waiting for my bank to mail the check will probably slow things down a few days, but I'm not in a hurry.

Thanks everyone for all the advice and I will let you know how it goes once it arrives.

Welcome to the Hawk brotherhood my man. I think you will enjoy the journey.

I'm in the same boat weight-wise as some of the posters - 6' 1" 240Lbs. I would like to fabricate preload spacers. Megadan previously mentioned 7/8" OD but what length would you guys recommend? (250 Hawk). Thx!

Good price on that buy! Comes with a free $500 dollar value motorcycle mechanic training course (invaluable). To the HB!

Correction... It's $1391. Found out this morning powersportsmax won't allow you to have both the cashier's check discount and military discount. The mil discount is a whopping $20. It
Cost me $10 to have another check cut to make up the difference. This bike hasn't even left china yet and it's already costing me money!

I can give rough length ideas, but it still helps do test until you find the correct length for you. I would say 40-45mm spacers will get you close.


The dealer costing you money because somebody didn't have the foresight to prevent them from giving out more than one discount. The proper thing to do would have been to take the $20 loss and then take steps to prevent it from happening the next time. Alas, customer service is the one real issue with all of the places that sell these bikes. That is one reason why CSC prices are worth paying.

I hear you on the customer service. I decided to order from Powersportsmax because
1. The prices were good.
2. They responded to a couple of emails and at least tried to answer my questions.
I was planning to order from TXPowersports, but they just ignored my emailed questions. I figure if you do business on the internet and you list an email address as a contact option, you should probably answer when customers email you. If they don't have time for me before they have my money, they sure as hell won't have time for me after they have my money. I will let you guys know how this transaction goes, and if Powersportsmax was a good choice or not.

Do yourself a favour and google powersportsmax and check out their customers reviews ,but before doing that cancel your order ! .Txpowersports is a lot lizard as well .Keep looking for a descent dealer .

Congrats on your decision brother, my grandfather just got a standard hawk I am helping him with, so far I am super impressed. I have a Brozz, and I can honestly say I'd be happy with either bike.

I appreciate your words of caution, and I did read plenty of reviews. There only seems to be a few types of china bike dealers out there. There's dealers people hate, dealers nobody's heard of, and dealers that are actually TXPowersports with a different name. I think it's probably the nature of this business. It's hard enough satisfying the public when you're selling something that's perfect out of the box.

I already sent the check, so I'm along for the ride. Keep your fingers crossed for me and we will see how it goes.

In all honesty if it isnt CSC, Belmont , Peace or Venom and sometimes Orion,then the Dealer you choose is a total random chance crap shoot., and you are pretty much on your own after the purchase.That is sort of part of the China Bike experience and you need to realize that and be prepared from square one. There are literally 25 crap, zero support haha i got your money Dealers selling Chinese Bikes for every 1 that makes even a half hearted attempt at Customer Service and Warranty Claims.It is what it is .

What do you guys think of the Hawk stock tires? Are they worth riding on? I am not a fan of chinese rubber products so I'm thinking about chaniging the tires and tubes before I put the wheels on the first time. Not a fan of their bearings either, so I have some Japanese wheel bearings on the way. Thanks Megadan for posting the bearing numbers!

The stock tires aren't all that bad really. Obviously there are better ones out there, but I ran on my stock tires with my first hawk for a couple thousand miles before I swapped to the Shinko 705's. I rode in pretty much every weather condition with them and found them about as competent as most 90% off road tires would be. Being a fairly aggressive knobby tire made of somewhat soft rubber, they don't have much of a lifespan to them if you ride them on pavement. I probably ate through half of the rear tires center lugs in that couple thousand miles. If you are lucky you could maybe squeeze 5k miles out of the rear on pavement.... maybe.

Many big name tires are produced in China too. The key difference is with the standards that the material and manufacturing are held to.

As far as the bearings go, the original ones are a bit hit or miss, but as a whole mine have been good thus far. I took a page out of JerryHawk's book and popped the seals off and added my own grease, which I am glad I did because there was hardly any in there (much like the head stock bearings *cough*). The only issue I have ever had was the rear ones were installed poorly by the assembler and the cages were damaged on both of my Hawks too, so they had to be replaced.

That said, good quality bearings are easy to get and not that expensive, so I don't blame anybody for swapping them. Plus, with yourself as the installer, you know they weren't mucked up.

I’m 6 foot 290 and just bought the BSR Raven fits me well and rides just fine

Another data point, my nephew is like 280 (?) lbs and I bought the Bashan Enforcer ostensibly for him. (He's an adult. Quit lookin' at me like that.) It has standard forks, not USD's. It handles his girth just fine, although his off road riding style is pretty tame. We've done absolutely nothing to the suspension thus far. This year we might change out the fork oil. We have not seen any need to add preload spacers or anything yet.

Powersportsmax called me yesterday to let me know they received my check. Going that route appears to have slowed things down about a week. I guess that's what I get for being cheap. 🙄

Just think of it like an opportunity to get yourself organized and ready for when it arrives. I have waited 5 weeks for parts that I could have had delivered in 5 days because it saved me $60. Cheap is a way of life.

I received an email today saying it has finally shipped. I checked the tracking and see it is indeed on the way. Now I'm wishing I had waited another week or two, I have a bathroom torn apart that I need to finish before I get on this. Plus I'm not really sure where I'm going to have the crate dropped. At least poor timng and bad decisions keepmy life interesting!

The MSO came in the mail today, and the hawk is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I understand some folks had to wait a while for the the MSO. Looks like Powersportsmax does it the other way around. MSO first then you wait for the bike. Lol

My bike arrived today. The box was in good shape and I don't see any damage to the contents. Only problem is it's not at all what I ordered. I somehow got a TBR7. I called the dealer and they are arranging to pick it up and replace it, but wow....

Wow! that was a screw up. Hope they get it right with the replacement. Too bad they did send you a Hawk DXL by mistake.

Yeah I know right? I'd be tempted to just keep this if not for the smaller wheels. Also my MSO is for a Hawk.

This is turning into quite the drama. Turns out the dealer did not ship the wrong bike. The trucking company switched my bike with someone else's order from a different dealer (Q9). It's an amazing coincidence that there were two similar bikes going to two different addresses in the same town on the same day via the same trucking company. And then they switched them. I have to assume the Q9 customer got my bike. I hope they realized the problem and did not uncrate it and start dorking around with it.

Well did they try and put your bike together? Lol

See if you can get the other persons address or number and swap them yourself. Plus you might make a friend and gain a riding buddy.

Unbelievable!

Did you ever get your bike?