Templar X motor rebuild journey
 

So, with the news that the vendor is sending me "something" to get my motor repaired, I thought I would start a pictorial journal of the rebuild.

The attached photo is for my reference as I begin this. I have done a handful of two-stroke top ends, but never a four-stroke.

For those of you who talk about the need to check every bolt and Loctite it, I can assure you the motor mounts on mine were tight....

So tight in fact, that I split a 13mm socket trying to remove the lower, front mounts. I had an 18" breaker bar on it as the ratchet wasn't enough. I have never broken a socket before (this one was old-school Craftsman). Going to get some impact sockets to try again... Might need some heat!>:(

I am still planning on getting a whole new motor, but plan to attack this one anyway.

my front motor mount bolts on my Hawk were stupid tight like you describe. My rear mount bolts weren't tight at all. Chinabike lottery.

Day two....

So, I borrowed a compression testing kit from a co-worker and it confirmed my original instinct. No compression at all...

I wasn't able to get new sockets as I am in some of the busiest couple weeks of my year at work.

No news from the vendor about a delivery time frame for my parts anyway.

I plan to order a new motor tomorrow. Funds are here...

Day three...

I got a set of impact sockets and was able to get the front mounts off.

I got confirmation of parts being shipped. They are due on Tuesday the 6th.

I plan to order the other motor tonight. I hope it comes quick as from being in New York riding season is short....

Day four....

I got the motor free'd up, removed the rear brake lever and thought I was ready to pull it out. I cannot wriggle that thing out for the life of me....

Do I need to remove the swingarm and pull the rear motor mount out in order to remove the motor???>:(

After taking the the timing chain cover off, I snapped a pic at TDC then rotated the crank 360 and took another. I got two different positions of the top cam sprocket, which I expected. Neither of the positions made much sense to me as no marks were lined up with the arrow on top of the valve cover. The one where the "0" is on top, it is slightly behind the mark (retarded???). Not sure what to think here...

Day four 2.0...

I had time and frankly am impatient with my limited time, so the swingarm and shock came off and the motor slid right out.

Now I need to figure out the cam chain tensioner without buggering it up.

Today's posts brought to you by the distraction I needed from my frustration...

This bike, while I love it, is a genuine Chinese puzzle all on its own...

Definitely more confusing than any other of the dozen bikes I have owned:hmm:

Day four 2.6357...

So, the cam chain tensioner is fairly simple. I got the head off and it appears to me the intake valve had an issue contacting the piston. I will assume after a bit of riding the valve bent and seized.

I cannot tell if the sooty appearance of the top of the piston is from the many times I tried to restart, not only to get home, but to prove there was issue for the vendor.

Day five...

Parts arrived. I got the bottom cylinder, top cylinder with the valve train installed and a complete gasket set. I have reached out to the vendor for a manual for the motor. We will see if I get anything. I couldn't find anything worthwhile on the webs...

There was no paperwork for any of the parts.

Once disassembled the top cam has about 115 degrees of free-play. I am not sure if it should be timed with it fully engaged or before.

I am assuming since the valves are both closed on the bench I can adjust the valves prior to assembly. Any thoughts on this?

Day six...

After receiving the parts, I asked the vendor for a manual for the motor. This is the quoted response to my request:

Sorry,we do not have the manual. The piece need professional mechanic to complete the repair work as it is not easy job. ​If you can not do the job yourself, please check if you can ask a friend or neighbor who know mechanics for help. ​
Thanks a lot for your understanding.

This was a little infuriating...

After watching a handful of videos on the assembly of what appear to be very similar motors, I have begun. The new piston is assembled and on the connecting rod. Valves have been adjusted. Hoping to get time this weekend to put the rest together.

Does anyone know a compatible crush gasket for the exhaust? I took some measurements of the crushed one, but not much popped up in searches.

Thanks jc, I have reached out to them. Waiting on a response, but not holding my breath. I was also going to look for the specs on comparable Japanese motors and see if there is a similarity in specs and just go with that.

I do believe I have the timing all set and have the motor completely back together, but not torqued. Getting the cam chain back on is a PIA. Not much room to work in there...

I ran the motor through a handful of cycles manually and all sounds good and it feels like there is sufficient compression.

Day 7,8 and 9...

I haven't had much time due to work....

Got the motor back in the bike, the rear end back on and some small miscellaneous stuff done, but ran out of Loctite so I need to get some and torque everything down. Once I get it back together I will fire it up and see what happens.

It has been almost a week and I have heard nothing from my outreach to Zongshen.

Have you considered swapping to the 4v air cooled 250? I think its the CB250r engine. Its a little pricey but the mounts look about the same. If I blow mine up that's my plan.

There's a lot to know, even with a simple motor like these. I'm not sure I could have done what you are doing. good job!

If I could have put the 300cc liquid cooled motor in, I would have done that, but it doesn't fit. I am not unhappy with this motor. Just want it to run.

Day 10...

So, I got everything needed for it to run buttoned up. Put fresh oil in it, connected the battery and crossed my fingers.

When I hit the go button with a little choke, it fired right up! It sounded so good. I just needed to adjust the idle a little bit to slow it down. I let it idle for about 5 minutes and cracked the throttle a few times. Response was good and it settled right back sown to a consistent idle.

After about an hour, I tried again. No choke and it fired right up with the same results as the first time.

Now I just need to put the chain, rear brake pedal, shifter and a few cosmetic pieces back on to take it for its second maiden voyage.

Fingers crossed again!

Good luck,but I don't think it will last very long.

EXCELLENT!!!! Congrats!

Thank you sir for your moral support...

If it's a good replacement ZS 172 engine, youve got valves and carb adjusted and you break it in right, the engine should last.

It great to hear you got it going! All of that wrenching also gave you lots of hands on with this bike too. You know the bike inside and out now!
:tup:

By the way, if you weren't aware, there is a resource fo 172-FMM-3 engine parts:

https://aj1moto.com/collections/zscb249f-engine-parts

But this is the 5 speed engine. So the head parts should be identical, various parts like the TDC sight cap will probably be identical... but of course, transmission parts are different and there is no counterbalance parts!

I sold my 2nd gen Templar X because I like the 5 speed and 100% parts are available (and I really didn't need 2 Temp X bikes!).

If you see a resource for 172-FMM-5 parts (counterbalanced 6 speed), please let us know!

Yes, I have gotten to know this bike far more than I expected, but that is a good thing.

Your posts (and a couple others) have been extremely helpful and appreciated.
I will certainly check out the motor resource. Thank you.


When reassembling the motor, the trickiest part for me was getting the cam chain back on and with the correct timing. It took a few tries, but I got it. One attached photo shows the position the other shows the intake valve where it was hitting the piston and is definitely bent. My timing may look a little off, but it is just my angle with the phone.

I believe the timing was off on the original motor. The ticking noise I heard, and thought was just the valve train, was most likely the piston hitting the valve. That noise is gone now and the motor is actually pretty quiet.

Hopefully going for a test run tomorrow. It has been raining here for a week...

Not to insult you,a rebuilt engine is never like a new and well taken care of engine.Have seen friends buy a rebuilt UTV for big money only to last a couple of years. Best of luck on your.

Why the negativity? I am a small engine mechanic and rebuild motors all the time, and they run every bit as good as new, provided that the proper time and care are put into it, which from everything i have seen the OP has done... not to mention my roketa came to me with no compression, rebuilt the motor and it has been going strong for the last 8 thousand miles.... 3/4 of rebuilding is doing the correct maintenance afterwards... consistent oil changes and consistent insoections really provide longevity ... if you whack it back together and never check stuff after? Yeah... stuff wont last....

Thanks for your input, but I can tell you after rebuilding the original motor the bike is running far better now than it did when I ran the stock motor. I will take my rebuilt motor that is running good than a stock motor that is just a boat anchor.

I have gained a bunch of knowledge by taking the motor apart and carefully putting it back together. I think I will have far more luck with my rebuilt motor.

As far as your friend goes, it sounds like they bought a rebuilt motor from someone else. Perhaps that is their issue...

Maybe ?

Keeping a positive attitude no doubt helps in any case.

So, I took it for a ride today, keeping the RPM's low and it ran great! Albeit a short 5 miles and staying close to home just in case. Lots of starts and stops and few hills, it ran great. I pulled back into my driveway and was smiling. I pulled the plug, even though I had ran through a few stages it was a cinnamon color. I did not go to WOT.

I also finally got my plates and insurance.

I plan to take it out tomorrow For a more comprehensive test run and see what happens.

If it runs great, awesome. If it blows up, so be it. At least I tried, and have learned so much! I didn't blow up a $13000 KTM. I might be pissed if that happened. In my mind, I have a Hawk sitting there that needs some love...

For all of you supporter's, I thank you! For the hater's, go piss in your hat... You should be thankful you didn't get a bike that would blow up....

I for one am grateful that I have two bikes and am fortunate enough to have the courage to rebuild a motor. It has been frustrating and angering, but at the same time therapy. I work an extremely demanding job, have grandkids and still found the time to figure it out.

You should all ask yourself, what is it for.

This is supposed to be a community of supporters. While I find that is true for most, some should check themselves and figure out what is really going on...

We are all here for fun... At least that is what I thought...

Are you here to have fun or be a hater?

Think on it...

Best,
Ken

I took it out for a ride today after getting it inspected. It is nice to have a garage that is around the corner...

Took it about 7 1/2 miles and kept the rpms fairly low. I ran the last 5 minutes or so at about 1/8th to 1/4 throttle. I killed the motor rolling into my driveway. The plug looks pretty good to me. See the pic.

Looking forward to getting out again.

Great job on the rebuild there Zooker, that plug looks good to a tad rich to me, time will tell once you start pushing wider throttle, as that will have a larger impact on plug color than the pilot jet at part throttle

Do you think, if you had inspected/set the valve lash before running it for the first time, you would have caught the issue and prevented the rebuild?

Thanks Bogie,

I want to break it in properly, but I am afraid with the time I have available, it may take all summer. As you know, our riding season is short...

Plug looks fine to me. Slightly rich during breaking is a good idea.

I don't even need choke to start in these hot temps. Perfect in my opinion.

Valve lash was checked a couple times. The factory timing appeared to be off.

I thought it was very clear that the engine failure was a direct result of the rocker arm adjustment lock nut coming loose after you adjusted the valves.

Is there any way to check/adjust timing on these bikes?

My spidey/flame senses tell me you're trying to be funny at my expense. Stop.



I'm about to buy one of these things and I want to know as much as possible before I pull the trigger. I apologize for asking stupid questions...actually, no, I don't.

No, I wasn't trying to be funny. That really happened.

No stupid questions. You should change the oil before starting. Check the valve lash if you feel comfortable doing so or have someone else do it. Otherwise the engine does come with a one year warranty.

Freddie is right. OP told us about the valve adjustment session not going well.

Be ready with the right tools and procedure when you receive the bike. Now this is posted in the Templar resource guide (post #22). I use an offset 10mm wrench to tighten the lock nut. It is a flathead screwdriver (small one) for the tappet adjustment. 0.001" to 0.002" on the intake side. Maybe slightly more on the exhaust side. I have found the 1/8th turn from snug is about 0.0015" on mine. That's where I set both.

So, yes, my initial thought was the locknut coming off, but that happened while running for a very short time and it seemed to run fine (only sitting still and running) after that was resolved. The intake valve was in adjustment the whole time, as far as I can tell. The locknut that came off was on the exhaust valve. The valve that was compromised was the intake valve. I do also think the initial noise that I heard and thought was the valves being too loose was actually the piston hitting the intake valve.

As I got into it, the top cam chain gear was clearly not set to TDC when the crank was at TDC. I can't see any way to adjust timing on this motor, only the ability to have it correct or not.

I do not claim to be an expert at this and am only relaying what I experienced in real time. Not trying to confuse or piss anyone off.

It is all very new to me and I hope to figure it all out.

All I know is I have the valves adjusted on the rebuild just as I did on the old one. This time it is very quiet and seems to be running just fine. Time and miles will tell.

I will stand corrected from my last post.

The lock nut was absolutely off during the failure. I had replaced it after the fact to try to get it to run.

My earlier post was written with the two grandkids talking at me and I wasn't recollecting accurately.

At this point I have no idea what the actual cause of the failure was, but am open to suggestions.

Sorry for being even more confusing....