The last set of pads for my RX3 cost something like 9 dollars for sintered. I'm a heavyweight so dual rotors would be excellent. Right now the RX3 kinda takes its time stopping. My Stelvio NTX runs a 110/80 19 front and even with dual brembos similar to sportbikes doesn't overwhelm the front tires traction under heavy braking. Its 136 dollars in pads to replace the front on that though lol. Wee bit less on the RX3!

I hope the RX4 makes it for 2018!

From csc dude blog

That brings me to the next topic: The RX4. We’ve had mixed emotions about publicizing the RX4 for a number of reasons, the most dominant of which is product cannibalization. Any time a new product is introduced, it will cannibalize sales of the existing product (in our case, the RX3). We think that hasn’t happened to us. RX3 sales were great last year. But pushing the RX4 at you well before it is available is still a concern.


The RX4…don’t look for it any sooner than 2018, and don’t hold off pulling the trigger on an RX3 waiting for this bike.

The earliest we’ll see the RX4 here in the US is no sooner than January 2018, and I personally doubt it will happen that soon. For starters, the RX4 design has not been finalized by Zongshen (the RX4 is not yet available anywhere in the world), nor have we defined our North American configuration with Zongshen. Zongshen tells us the RX4 design will be finalized in the second quarter of 2017, but I’ve spent my entire professional life around engineering development efforts in a variety of industries and I can tell you that the word most frequently coupled with “schedule” is “slip” (as in “schedule slip”). After the RX4 design is finalized, we have to send a product description to the EPA and request permission to bring sample RX4s in for testing (there goes another month to get the request approved). After we get permission from the EPA to bring the samples in, we have to get 3 or 4 bikes shipped to us so we can begin the testing process. You can figure on 6 weeks of transit time, and anywhere from 3 days to 3 months for the bikes to sit in Customs. That’s another 2 to 4 months. Then we get to shell out something north of $60K for the emissions testing and DOT evaluations (figure another 1 to 2 months), and then there’s the delay as EPA, CARB, and the DOT ponder the test results (and that can take another 1 to 3 months). Once we order the bikes, it’s another month to produce them, and then another 6 weeks for them to make the trip down the Yangzte and across the Pacific, and then once again there’s the time to get though Customs. And, to compound the challenge, the times I’m sketching out here assume everything goes smoothly and there are no problems or required design changes. You get the idea. This isn’t something that happens quickly.

The above RX4 concerns notwithstanding, we’ve been blessed. The RX3 continues to sell well, and our TT250 has done extremely well. It really is amazing. In a down year for the motorcycle industry (an industry that has been obsessed for more than five decades with ever-larger and increasingly-expensive bikes), we’ve done well with 250cc singles priced appropriately. A big part of our shared success has been the stellar nature of both the RX3 and the TT250, the extreme value both products bring to the market, our unique path to market (no dealers, free maintenance tutorials, free service manuals, our adventure rides, and our customer support), and the enlightened nature of our customers. Yep, our customers….folks like you. Folks who aren’t afraid to pick up a wrench, folks who make their own decisions, and folks who spend more time on the road then they do on Internet forums. We’re on to something here. You can see it in our results, and you can see it in the fact that no fewer than four other manufacturers are now copying us by planning to bring small ADV bikes to the US market. Like I said earlier, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Ain't skeerd..I knew it was going to be awhile. Hopefully this will be a case of underpromice and overdeliver when the time arrives.

All five members of the Cyclone Dakar Team completed the first stage, at positions 78, 113, 131, 133, 135.
2nd stage today, about 800 km from Resistencia (Chaco) to San Miguel de Tucumán.

Dakar coverage NBCSN
 

Found info for my dish network dakar coverage

Check yours here

https://areyouwatchingthis.com/tv/st...csnhd-nbcsn-hd

Nbcsn network, Looks like there doing 30 min a day segments. I got the recorder locked on now.

Only the more experienced french, Thierry Bethys, is still on the road. The other four members of the Zongshen Cyclone team didn't complete stage 2 yesterday, but I can't find the details or causes.

Our fellow on site says:
"Por motivos climáticos, los pilotos chinos primerizos no dieron y el piloto francés ya es de la vieja guardia una moto presentó un desperfecto mecánico, los demás simplemente les quedó grande el poncho!!!
Thierry va bien a un ritmo constante y dejando atrás a varias KTM, Huqsvarna, Kawasaki etc"

Apparently the hot climate and tiredness took its toll. The first timers, and the other french guy (he said "old school", an euphemism for "older"), couldn't make it, but Thierry is doing fine.

Per tv coverage
 

Motorcycles ...Straight away speed for leaders was 108mph. Temps were 104 F . Dry dusty potmarked with huge waterholes in the road. Been watching on nbcsn. 2 stages down, real navigation stages up next. On the public roads they have to maintain speed limits. :tup:

It sounds as if no bike mechanical gremlins just riders.

That is nice to hear.

Give me a freaking break. Hand each of those babies a pacifier and his termination papers. Mr. Zongshen wasted untold amounts of money, and now looks like a fool. The motorcycle world was watching his companys efforts. Didn't these kids realize it was going to be hard? Im sorry (no, I'm not sorry for feeling the way I do) , but I am old school in my values. I believe in a firm handshake, keeping one's word, behaving civilly, and finishing what you start.

Kids these days...and adults too, hit a roadblock and just stop. They have no critical thinking skills or the fortitude to push on. I see it every single day.

So? Quitters are quitters. Dont attempt it if you dont have what it takes. I am not including injury or mechanical failures. Im talking about fortitude.

While I'm not justifying them, the race is really, really hard. They must have severily underestimated the physical aptitude needed.
On the other hand, if it were me, I've dragged my ass at a walking pace until they dequalified me, wich they do anyway if you don't complete the stage within a certain time frame. In the event of me winning the Loto (I must start buying tickets someday...) racing the Dakar as a private is one of the things I intend to do.

At least two of the Zong riders had lots of Dakar experience. I certainly don't have the fortitude to go balls to the wall for 800 KM at 104F. These are not spring chickens. Let's see: Bethes, 1971; Heien 1966; Jobard 1961; Min 1977; Hongyi 1980. That makes the youngest rider 36 years old. Jobard is 55 years old. Jobard has competed in 7 Dakar races. Bethys has been in 5 Dakar races. The other three were novice riders (in Dakar) but not their first rodeo. I'd say that these are five pretty tough dudes in a darn tough race. Between the heat and altitude they might have met their match but I cannot agree that anyone should be handing out pacifiers. KTM has taken Dakar for the past 16 years. Prior to that...not so much. Even big orange had a learning curve. I'd prefer to see this as a great product development opportunity. If the bikes broke, fix them. Is it worth the cost of getting the #1 ranked Dakar rider...probably not, given that Dakar is only of interest to a very small part of the motorcycle community. Heck, ask your buddies if they are following Dakar 2017. I'll bet the answer is WTF??.

I totally understand that it is a VERY tough event. One that for many reasons, is so far out of my league its not funny. I guess I was ranting about starting something and not finishing it. In my world, if you are given a task, you do it. Period. Complete the mission, whatever happened to that? Peter, you said you are a retired military officer, so you give your guys an order in a critical mission..."we're tired, it's hot out, our feet are sore..." would you put up with that? Maybe the Armed Forces today has to in order to have an order followed; if the serviceman wants to, decides to, and if all his needs are met to ensure a healthy psyche or ID. If 2 generations ago said or acted that way, we'd be speaking German, or Japanese...well I wouldn't, I'd have gone away to a camp in the German countryside, along with my family. Point is, even finishing last is finishing. Hugh Glass wouldn't have given up.

Now, if these guys were not given the tools they need to complete the task, then it's on Mr. Zongshen. He did not have the leadership to take command and ownership of the mission. I wouldn't fault the riders if they were told they were going into this without the training, tools, and leadership needed to complete the mission sucessfully. Then it's a suicide mission and will have a negative outcome. Also, why did he hire such aged riders? Was there no one available with a good enough resume willing to take some money for a paid ride?

AD, until I get a lot more information about what happened I'm in no position to call these guys quitters. As I understand it, on the Dakar race if you limp in way over the allotted time you are disqualified. That's not quitting. As for the military side, there is a point where common sense trumps dogged determination. If my company is assaulting a hill and we take 50% casualties it's stupid to execute the last 50% of my force just for form. You fall back and come up with a better plan. That way you succeed in the end. It's the end result that counts. In the case of Dakar, if a rider is at risk of dying from heat exhaustion it's stupid to press on. This is just a race, not a fight to the death. I'd appreciate anyone giving the extra effort to drag themselves across the finish line in spite of a busted bike and broken leg. That makes a great story. Dying of heat stroke for a motorcycle race...that's foolish. Once again, I don't have enough information to form an opinion. BTW, my military experience also proved that first reports are ALWAYS wrong. Let's let the dust settle and then revisit this.

Lyndon poskett shows overall #36 as of today ...still going

https://mobile.twitter.com/dakar/sta...147716/video/1

Imagine racing for 6 hrs, being lost for 2 of those hrs not knowing exactly where to turn next. Then waking up and doing it all over again on 2 wheels...unbelievable

They showed lots of u-turns today

Juanro...like the guy says in the video, que loco :hehe:

Thanks for the post

Taken from dakar website
 

Malles Moto Class
One of my favorite aspects of the Dakar Rally is that the challenge of finishing the race legitimizes competitors at all levels. This race is about more than just winning, it is a way of life for many competitors. The most challenging way to do the race is a category called Malles Moto, which means no support from a team, the rider must work on their own bike, and they have only a single small box for spare parts (and camping gear) from which to operate. There are two riders, I’m proud to call friends, that you should definitely keep an eye on in the Malles Moto class this year.

The first is Lyndon Poskitt (#100), who has been riding around the world and racing rallies along the way for the last 2.5 years. He has been documenting his progress on YouTube with the “Races to Places” series, and he rode TO this year’s Dakar along his touring route. Doesn’t get much more hardcore than riding to the start of the worlds longest motorcycle race!

Manuel Lucchese (#54) is an Italian friend who epitomizes the resourcefulness needed for Dakar. In past years, he has started Dakar without a plane ticket home after the race, and without a second set of tires. This year, he is racing as a Qatari after the Italian federation denied him a start license. He has been rescued by ranchers, internet groups, and strippers — no matter what the challenge, Manny will find a way.

Even the defending DAKAR champion is out of the race, breaking his femur in stage IV - only 150 meters from the finish line. I agree with Peter - live to race another day - no use being a martyr - it's just a race - not worth leaving your family behind because of some sick/fatal quest for glory. We don't know all the facts of why these riders dropped out - and it is foolish to think otherwise.

Fifth member of the Zongshen team is out too:

"07:55 Los (numerosos) abandonos de ayer
Si la tercera etapa ya fue difícil para los pilotos, la cuarta jornada hizo estragos de lo lindo. En motos, Thierry Béthys, David Megre, Toby Price, Walter Terblanche, Alessandro Botturi, Rodney Faggotter, Jorge Lacunza, Ronald ter Beek, Armand Monleón y Jurgen van den Goorbergh se vieron obligados a tirar la toalla. En quads, Josef Macháček y Pablo Luis Novara no tomarán hoy la salida, mientras que, en coches, Stefano Marrini, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Ebert Dollevoet y Carlos Sainz también fueron víctimas de esta demoledora cuarta etapa. Por último, en camiones, el Dakar acabó ayer para Paolo Calabria y Pep Sabaté. "

Well, Peter (and others), I've got to say I agree with you. I was discussing it with my wife, and her comments were almost the same as yours. Upon retrospect, I didn't have enough information to assign them that name. And I remembered that discretion can be the better part of valor. (I hope you took no offense to the military analogy, I used it with my wife during our discussion) I am disappointed that the team is out, for whatever reason.

AD, absolutely no offense taken. It appears that all five Zong entries are now out of the race. I wish I were fluent in Spanish so I could more fully understand what is going on. Maybe Joe @ CSC can fill in the blanks for us.

Peter Y.

Translation from a Polish, Bethysa's bike caught fire.

Zongshen Cyclone Rally Team finished in the Dakar Rally for the fourth stage. The last Chinese motorcycle, driven by Thierry Béthysa, caught fire on the way to Tupiza. Bethys not reached the WP2.

Whatever happens with the riders is one thing...it's the bikes I'm concerned about. How many broke? Of course, the term "caught fire" is never a good sign, but if the majority of the bikes went as far as they did without a problem, that's a success in my eyes. Zong is just getting off the ground on the world theater and it was a ballsy move to do this. Go for it next year also.........

Bethys' Inferno
 

If I understand correctly he had a "go down" and the fuel ignited a little bit.

http://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-l...-video-4719782

If the term, man and machine runs true...it takes a thinking man for every machine

Consider the temperatures encountered. I would assume the operators were of the experienced variety?

Just not enough info to qualify opinions, we may find out there was a fatal flaw in this new 450.

This is not what I expected/hoped for after 4 stages :ohno:

http://www.ouest-france.fr/sites/def...?itok=m5QE-KDC

RIP Zongshen Rally bike...might look worse than it is... (the fire is around 10:58)

https://youtu.be/AgtroPiXM1s?t=10m58s

That's funny. Don't see how it could get much worse.

All that remains of the bike is a smoldering pile of metal and ashes.. :)

jb

Back to the drawing board to Zongshen. It's all good - you can't improve something without testing its limits - all important to the development of the brand which I am sure the engineers at he company know and will scour the failures of the machine to make it better, sounder, more reliable.

Well, the reality is that other than the name, core engine and transmittion none of the bike is the RX4. They were custom one off race machines that were speciffically built for the race. If they went out from drive train issues I would have concerns on the new bike but from what little I can find none of it was. Even the best riders have offs, Jakes, Price and most of the rest of the riders.

It's the engine that I wanted to perform since it's a new block design. From what I have learned around here, Chinese engines don't have a very good reputation north of 250cc. Fingers crossed.

Dakar Web site mentions
 

01/06/17

Thierry Bethys was the last representative of the Chinese constructor Zongshen, which is participating in its first Dakar. However, the brand's debut hopes went up in smoke, because the Frenchman, who completed his first five Dakars, could do nothing but drop out of the race after his machine caught fire and burned on the fourth stage


01/04/17

Officially participating for the first time on the Dakar, the Chinese constructor Zongshen has had an extremely complicated debut. Out of the five “Cyclones” at the start yesterday, four have dropped out. Only Frenchman Thierry Béthys, three times winner of the Enduro du Touquet race, is still in the race, occupying 116th place in the general standings.

it's a step learning curve competeing at that level when you have
no experience to draw from...



..

It still not clear to me if the bike catched fire due to an electrical problema, other problem (temperature?) with the bike, or because of a drop & fuel spillage.

Wondering also, fuel on hot engine. :shrug: super hot those first days, summer time you know.

I looked on the Zongshen sites, facebook,etc...seems like they just went silent, no info.

I am very interested in who will be participating in Dakar 2018. Will Zongshen go all out and double down with top notch riders and more bikes or will they give up and not compete ever again? The Chinese are extremely determined and calculated. I wouldn't be surprised if this was more of a proof of concept than a competition for them. From a manufacturers standpoint it's all about public perception. Will people think Zongshen showed determination and engineering might for simply attempting Dakar or will this look like a failure to the public? If they get good press for their efforts I can't see them stopping but if this gets bad press then they won't likely compete again. In today's world clickbait rules and a story of a Chinese bike not finishing the race might get a lot of (bad) attention. I am saddened that Zongshen didn't finish the race and worried this might end up strengthen stereotypes.

My guess is they thought they were ready. I am not sure if it is still held, but China has its own desert rally called the Taklimakan Rally http://www.taklimakanrally.com/en/ which many Chinese bike brands have won in the past, although it is not as difficult by any stretch of the imagination as the Dakar. Not sure if Zongshen participated in any of them (the rally began in 2005), but I remember a sub brand of Yinhe, who produce the XTR 250 which is still sold by Pitster Pro, won it way back in the mid 2000s over European brands who participated. We had kept tabs on the rally via mychinamoto.com and it proved to us Chinese bike enthusiasts that Chinese bikes are not that bad. Again, have not researched any of the recent history to see if Zongshen participated in any of the rallies, but I could imagine them thinking, 'why go with child's play when we can do the real deal' or something like that, and threw a budget and bikes towards Dakar (actually S. America which is no where near Dakar).

Do they have the engineering capabilities or budget to hire those with the engineering budget? I think so with all their joint ventures, such as with Piagio and whoever else they partner/OEM with.

Hopefully, they realized that they got some egg (foo-yung) (I apologize if this is not p.c., but I was born before the politically correct movement) on their face with this failure. I hope that they try again, with better bikes, better riders, and make a good showing. It'd go a long way in name recognition, brand acceptance and R/D for their products. Biker Andy had a salient point, in that this could harm them more than help them, in that the naysayers will have strength to their argument that Chinese bikes can't cut it.

May also be a good thing that they failed in such a big way
They must have thought they were ready... Now can see they
are not where they thought they were....
Hopefuly they are thinking ...Time to pick our game up
so we can play with the big boys...





.

The problem I am having is that I can't find out any info on what happened!!! Perhaps I don't know where to look? Or perhaps it's not being reported due to its obscurity as a brand. :shrug:. In my view, the lack of information will fuel the pessimism for the brand.