From a manufactures point of view, I don't think they consider anything "Pre-Orders". For them it's going to be this years model or next years model based on the VIN they assign. This "Pre-Order" non-sense is dealers just selling inventory they don't have, with expectations they will shortly get the inventory.

What would have made better sense for dealers taking pre-orders would have been to take a small $100 deposit. But I they they can since most probably aren't large enough to stay operational without selling product, even product they won't have yet, and these pre-orders are probably keeping them afloat.

BTW, I noticed on Q9's site that a bunch of stuff can't even be pre-ordered now. I wonder what that means?

Think you are right and the shipping logs seem to show that they are indeed making things for upcoming seasonal sales only. Looks more and more like the Hellcats at least will not be coming anytime soon and are part of the "everything else." :shrug:

Maybe the dealers are backing off pre-orders because they have a feeling things are not going to arrive in a reasonable timeframe anymore. Why anger more and more people and spend everyday processing cancellations. Not fun and certainly not good for future business relations.

Don't be surprised if replenishment inventory has a non-adjustable cap over the carb idle-speed screw.

https://i.imgur.com/zWtHhSd.jpg

Thanks for the heads up.. And based on that date stamp, I'm guessing everything being built now will have it.

I wonder how hard it will be to remove the dang thing?

BTW, I'm now thinking that part of this delay is emissions related... And that's why we're seeing vehicles going to Canada, but not to the US..

Certainly hope it's not emissions related. My Poodle farting outside is more pollution than the choked down little 125cc Hellcat engine that even has the canister crap on it. I mean seriously, it's less HP than some push mowers. :crazy:

The Dremel fix...slot for a screwdriver. It's like it is made for that. Lol.

Looks like a "challenge accepted" cap to me... :D


g.

Tao Canada is getting another container....

https://i.postimg.cc/rpNKd0kB/tao-canada.jpg

Tracking info:
https://www.yangming.com/e-service/T..._tracking.aspx

Use BoL: W232389637

=======================

Date
2020-07-29
Shipper Name
Zhejiang Taotao Vehicles Co. Ltd
Shipper Address
NO 6 XINMIN RD XINBI ST JINYUN COUNTY LISHUI CHINA
Consignee Name
Tao Motor Canada Inc.
Consignee Address
170 BARTOR RD NORTH YORK ON M9M 2W6 CANADA TEFAX1
Notify Party Name
Tao Motor Canada Inc.
Notify Party Address
170 BARTOR ROAD NORTH YORK ON M9M, 2W6 CANADA, TEL 1-416-748-6686, TEFAX 1-416-749-6686
Weight
12240
Weight Unit
KG
Weight in KG
12240.0
Quantity
136
Quantity Unit
CTN
Measure Unit
CM
Shipment Origin
China
Details
12,240.0 kg
From port: Ningbo, China
To port: Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
Place of Receipt
Ningbo
Foreign Port of Lading
Ningbo, China
U.S. Port of Unlading
Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
U.S. Destination Port
Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
Commodity
PASS VEH FOR SNOW GOLF CARTS SIMILAR VEHIC ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE
Container
SEGU4365515
Marks Description
ATV OFF ROAD USE ONLY / /
Carrier Name
YANG MING MARINE TRANSPORT CORP
Vessel Name
ONE HOUSTON
Voyage Number
041E
Bill of Lading Number
YMLUW232389637
Lloyd's Code
9566382
HTS Codes
HTS 8703.10

More passenger snow vehicles. Definitely making and shipping upcoming seasonal vehicles as per the message I received. Guess the hope is that there are also assembly lines building the machines we are all waiting for such as Hellcats, Hawks and etc.

Seems more and more like if you missed out on the production run that was here in stock that your pre-order is really just for the next normally scheduled run. For example, their "seasonal" production time for Hellcats is probably winter to ship out for spring sales. When they arrive the pre-orders get filled first and the rest sell from remaining stock with some getting pushed out to brick and mortar shops. If so, wonder how many people will let their pre-order/money slide until spring trusting they will get order then. :hmm:

The description is a generic for almost anything motorized (non-electric since vehicles with electric motors actually state in in the description). And I don't feel it's related to snow. I say this because it's a 40' container with 136 items packed in.

I've been told a shipping container can carry around 40 full sized crated motorcycles. With it carrying 136 items, it's something small.

I have no idea how small a snowmobile can be, but the ones I've seen in person, were really large.

I'm probably wrong, but if I feel it's either small ATVs or some kind of mini bike.... An empty 40ft container comes in around 4 tons. This thing loaded is like 13 tons, so there's around 9 tons of stuff in there. 18000lbs/136 is about 132 lbs per item.

Yeah my thinking was ATVs for Canada winter. Sure they are big sellers up there and China knows their markets.

Makes sense on the bikes. I was told a container holds like 60 of the smaller size Hellcats. If a 60 number shows up on a log sheet that could start to be good news...at least for baby bike folks.

That's what I plan to do. To do otherwise is to either put myself at the back of the line, or just give up. Anyplace that gets inventory is going to have all those units slated to fulfill a preorder.

Jason

On top of the COVID and strained US/CHINA trade relations, we also now have record breaking flooding over a great deal of China ,so i am sure that is having an even further negative impact on Manufacturers getting parts in from Suppliers to build motorcycles with and then getting said motorcycles shipped to a port etc.



It's like a perfect storm of mishaps if you are trying to get a ChinaBike right now

but then again i guess that describes 2020 in general as far as i can tell.

Several good points. I will probably just ride it out...pun intended. It's on a credit card so not out any cash per say. Plus, the more I watch MotoCheez videos the more I want the damn thing. We is big kids. :lol:

Another point is pricing. As of the price today I have saved $130 on Hellcat. That's new knobby tires and a carb.

This is something that has me wondering what's going on...

I've been watching the pricing go up without much inventory out there and I'm wondering why..

Are dealers getting word from the distributors that wholesale pricing has gone up? If they're getting this kind of info, does it mean they also know about when inventory will arrive? Might dealers just doing it based on what they're seeing other dealers do? Maybe dealers are raising pre-order pricing to cover expenses they have? Since it's only pre-orders, they're probably selling much less, reducing their cash flow. Maybe something to prevent pre-order cancellations? Maybe a combination of a bunch of stuff? I have no idea, but I wish I knew what the pricing increase cause might be or more importantly, if the increase means vehicles are now scheduled to be shipped in?

I was told prices were going up on them anyway...at least the Hellcats. And told that by pre-ordering you just locked in a lower price. Of course it also allowed them to continue selling stock they do not have in a hot market.

Hopefully it means they are getting close but I kind of doubt it. May be just taking advantage of the current supply and demand market. That naturally drives the price of things up. Remember the Cabbage Patch dolls.

Higher pricing could possibly slow the pre-ordering down a little though I doubt that is the goal. Rake in the cash while you can sounds more like the plan. :)

I just saw this morning that lumber prices have pretty much doubled as demand has shot up and saw mills can't keep up. People at home now being DIYers. Ridin and Buildin I guess.

I doubt the higher price will stop anyone from ordering who really wants one. Look at the Hawk/Tbr7's... when supply on those was dried up a couple months ago, X-Pro and a couple others on Amazon still had some inventory, but it was $200-$250 more in cost. Many people ordered from there anyways just to get one.

Personally, I waited it out and used that cost difference on all of the upgrades and mods to my Hawk.

Consider the Hellcats specifically, even at $1300, that's still 1/2 to almost a 1/3 the price of a gently used Honda Grom. New Groms are $4300 OTD from my local dealer. Hell, even at $1500 the Hellcat is a good deal. Vaders and others just as much so.

I don't think a little price increase will slow it down.

I agree. A second stimulus check has been agreed to so cheap bikes may have just gotten another boost. Although the good riding season is closing for many folks soon. Plus, Christmas ads will probably start next month. :ohno:

If the Hellcat were to show up on Amazon right now I would probably grab one for a couple hundred more. :)

My issue with this is that it's an artificial shortage, as in they're just not shipping bikes to the US market. And the dealers are selling something that doesn't exist or know when it's might exist. Maybe they know and just not telling us?

I don't know how many pre-orders they might have, compared to how many they sold on average for this time of the year in the past, but if they don't materialize, what are they going to do? What's going to happen with us? That's got me worried.

Are they putting the $$ into some kind of escrow account to cover their costs when/if these bikes start appearing or have they been spending it to keep themselves afloat? I sure hope these dealers are banking it to cover costs for when they do appear.

BTW, Apollo has shipped 3 containers of dirt bikes to the US in July, that I'm aware of. And TaoTao has shipped motorcycle parts to BV Powersports. So stuff is coming in..

Got me worried too. I hope they are banking it or at least have a big reserve nut to cover many refunds if bikes do not arrive fairly soon. If a dealer goes belly up so goes your pre-order money.

The more pre-orders they keep taking the farther out on a limb they go (unless they know something). That is another reason I think no movement or nothing positive happening this month will be a tipping point for many folks...maybe even me. I have been sticking up for dealers all along but we have not gotten ANY positive news or seen anything to give us some confidence. Despite the answers of "two weeks, two weeks and containers of bikes arriving daily" for months nobody has received a bike in their driveway.

I think Tao Motor Co. USA and others need to give honest answers to their customers. After months they are still "acting" like they don't know anything. Seriously?? They schedule, produce and ship these products!

Are there laws regarding the maximum amount of time allowed to pass before you deliver a pre-ordered product you took FULL payment for? I mean can a company just keep taking money and deliver the products whenever...3 months, 6 months, 12 months.......?

Question to TX Powersports: "Any good news at all on a date the Hellcats will arrive to ship out to customers? Tao must know something by now. They manufacture them."

Answer: "HI these are on pre order only we are out of stock and more will be in stock in about 2 to 4 weeks time thank you."

Received this exact same email response in early June, early July and now this morning. Would think they would be one of the first to know something.

And they keep on taking pre-orders. :hmm: :shrug:

To be fair though, the people who answer these questions at txpowersports are always annoyed when you contact them, probably frustrated, seem apathetic and are otherwise the least helpful humans on Earth. I don't believe what they say; I think that's a canned reply.

TXpowersports still owes me "free gifts" with purchase, which were out of stock at the time of ordering, so they promised by phone to send me out at least the spark plug. That was a month ago.

At this point, I'm expecting a Fall 2020 delivery. Looking now for snow tires in a 12" tire size... lol.

67 foot standard container with seal CCLU7464659 containing 96 count "Off Highway Motorcycle" loaded in Shanghai on July 19 onto the merchant vessel COSCO OCEANA (Hong Kong flagged vessel). It docked in the port of Long Beach CA 2020-08-03

The cargo was exported by
Quote:
CHONGQING HAOSEN MOTORCYCLE CO.,LTD
NO.7, XISHAN ROAD,
BISHAN DISTRICT,
CHONGQING CITY,CHINA
TEL:+86-238(I deleted the rest so as to not doxx the company)

and imported by
Quote:
RICKY POWER SPORTS, INC. (also known as RPS)
2425 CAMP AVE.#100,
CARROLLTON, TX75006
Tel: 972-(I deleted the rest so as to not doxx the company)
ATTN: MARCO (I deleted the rest for privacy).

There are a bunch of other containers as well. RPS is the supplier for TXMotorsports and a lot of those dallas area drop shippers.

Probably be a run on knobby tires next. :lol:

I'm not confident of a 2020 delivery at this point. Think I will go ahead and send back the VM22 carb kit while I still can.

[QUOTE=Murdabenne;344066][FONT=Times New Roman]67 foot standard container with seal CCLU7464659 containing 96 count "Off Highway Motorcycle" loaded in Shanghai on July 19 onto the merchant vessel COSCO OCEANA (Hong Kong flagged vessel). It docked in the port of Long Beach CA 2020-08-03.

Sounds like maybe small dirt bikes. Not sure what that company makes or if they are connected to Tao Motor Co. At least it is some movement I guess.

[QUOTE=dgl57;344070]
The 250s fit that import category (actually 239cc), and dual sport are often imported under the "Off Road" label.

FYI: That is the company that makes all the Hawk 250s for RPS and others, as well as the Bashan bikes for Peace Motors (BISHAN is an alternate spelling for the province). RPS is the one of the biggest Chinabike importers in the US, and they sell them to drop shippers like TxMorotsports and a pile of other places. So not a small company. And a lot of Hawk DLX 240 EFI are due in mid-late August, so this is probably them, given it takes a while to clear customs.

And I checked, it looks like several of these containers are there, meaning hundreds of "off road motorcycles" arrived the other day for RPS and other distributors.:tup:

That would be good news for Hawk and Bashan customers. Probably all sold via pre-orders but at least some are possibly showing up.

Now head back out to sea and find some ships loaded with Tao Hellcats. I'm guessing boat loads of those have been sold. :lol:

IMHO, they're not going to say anything that might have people cancelling pre-orders or stopping pre-orders. Right now, pre-orders are their bread and butter. Without them, there's no cash flow.

I just hope they're banking the cash so they can cover their inventory costs once Tao starts shipping. If not, we'll all be screwed..

Another shipment going to Tao Canada. No description as to content and and HS code to get an idea of what's in there.. but based on weight, it's motorized.

https://i.postimg.cc/fy2V97yR/tao-canada.jpg



Date
2020-08-05
Shipper Name
Zhejiang Taotao Vehicles Co. Ltd
Shipper Address
NO 6 XINMIN RD XINBI ST JINYUN COUNTY LISHUI CHINA
Consignee Name
Tao Motor Canada Inc.
Consignee Address
170 BARTOR RD NORTH YORK ON M9M 2W6 CANADA TEFAX1
Notify Party Name
Tao Motor Canada Inc.
Notify Party Address
170 BARTOR ROAD NORTH YORK ON, M9M2W6 CANADA, TEL 1-416-748-6686 FAX, TE1-416-749-6686
Weight
12528
Weight Unit
KG
Weight in KG
12528.0
Quantity
108
Quantity Unit
CTN
Measure Unit
CM
Shipment Origin
China
Details
12,528.0 kg
From port: Ningbo, China
To port: Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
Place of Receipt
Ningbo
Foreign Port of Lading
Ningbo, China
U.S. Port of Unlading
Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
U.S. Destination Port
Port of Tacoma, Tacoma, Washington
Container
YMLU8869587
Carrier Name
YANG MING MARINE TRANSPORT CORP
Vessel Name
MOL PREMIUM
Voyage Number
053E
Bill of Lading Number
YMLUW232391889
Lloyd's Code
9444261

Good Find!

I don't know what brand this company sells under but in the last couple weeks, they've shipped 3 containers to RPS.


Date Supplier Customer Details 42 more fields
2020-08-03 CHONGQING HAOSEN MOTORCYCLE CO., LTD.
RICKY POWER SPORTS,LLC
OFF-HIGHWAY MOTORCYCLE AND PARTS
BILL OF LADING
2020-08-03 CHONGQING HAOSEN MOTORCYCLE CO., LTD.
RICKY POWER SPORTS,LLC
OFF-HIGHWAY MOTORCYCLE
BILL OF LADING
2020-07-29 CHONGQING HAOSEN MOTORCYCLE CO., LTD.
RICKY POWER SPORTS,LLC
OFF-HIGHWAY MOTORCYCLE
BILL OF LADING

Based on the info you posted, I found a 2nd container under the same BoL.

https://i.postimg.cc/Z5FLMRfF/1-Chongqing.jpg

Interesting...as of this morning Q9 Powersports and TX Powersports have stopped taking pre-orders for the Hellcat. Now they are just noted as being Sold Out.

Could mean they have been told how many they are getting and suddenly all the bikes are now sold.

Or they have now been told there will not be any until next year sometime so better to stop selling them and offer immediate refunds based on this information.

Or they now know how many they are getting versus the pre-orders already on the books. And they have over sold them and will begin rolling out refunds ASAP starting with the earliest pre-orders. You cannot just keep taking and holding full payments for a product indefinitely. I believe there are legal issues involved.

Hmm. Remember earlier I wrote about dealers being out on a limb and also that many customers may end up getting an email saying sorry but we will not be able to fill your order. I sure hope that is not what is coming. We shall see. Dealers will get hammered for taking people's money while continually giving hope filled answers to customers for months. Again not their fault with little info coming from China.

I will hope for a good news email but will not be holding my breath. :/

Taotao is an independent company and seemingly is not able to make product at this point as evident in their not having most of their products here, or on the way. They are headquartered in the Dallas area. RPS is a subsidiary of Haosen aka Hensim, most known for the Hawk 250. They, too, are headquartered in the Dallas area. They are both unrelated. Also, Haosen or Hensim are not related to Bashan.

TXPwersports, one of the 'Manny' companies that is both hit or miss with members here, is and has been only a retailer as far as I can tell. Being in the Dallas area, they are able to sell a large quantity of RPS products and Taotao products.

Part of the possible reasons the shipment is listed as 'Off-road motorcycles' in the case of RPS is 1)Chinese seem to classify any dirtbike, enduro, or dual-sport as 'off-road' 2)The original Hawk 250 (the carb one) and Magician are classified according to the EPA as 'Offroad dirtbikes' 3)Some of the bikes are Viper 150's.

The Hawk DLX is 49-state certified as on 'On-highway motorcycle' according to the EPA/DOT. While many states will plate the carbed Hawk 250 and Magician (some that used to plate them no longer allow that loophole), they are technically offroad-only bikes.

power sports max is showing quite a bit of inventory according to their website, I find it hard to believe and have emailed them inquiring of it. they also are still showing an independence day sale so obviously they don't update their site as they should either if the sale has in fact ended.
anyone know anything of it?

I have heard that PSM is pretty much owned by Chinese. Chinese-Americans or Chinese from China, I am not sure, but on the West Coast, especially in the L.A. area, part of the reason the prices are so propped up in real estate no matter the economic conditions is that Chinese nationals own numerous homes there and use them for vacations, anchor babies, etc. We have sent much money overseas, and made millionaires left and right, they have lots of disposable income. Before I sound too political, that is why PSM is somewhat of a mystery.

What I understand is they get bonus checks written directly by manufacturers in China to move product. In other words, they can literally sell bikes for actually wholesale cost, and STILL make money. They also have cash on hand to purchase large remaining lots of bikes. For instance, right when COVID started rearing its ugly face in the spring, they bought the last of around 20 Lifan KP Mini 150's from American Lifan.

In other words, they apparently get preferential treatment of sorts directly from the manufacturers. If what I heard is fact (I heard it from a small L.A. area dealer who also ships nationwide and specializes in the Vader ;) ), it would make sense that they would have plenty of bikes but taking these times times into consideration (probably no Taotao bikes to speak of since they physically do not exist--but they might get first dibs when Tao does start sending containers this way).

I also stated earlier somewhere that you may start seeing at least Tao bikes for sale on Amazon and other places first with that good old statement saying "Ships From US Warehouse." Meaning Chinese folks and/or Chinese owned dealers will sell many of the first containers for higher costs and maximum profits before sending any to US dealers. I hope that is not the plan.

I think things are going to hit the fan soon one way or the other. Lets hope bikes just start shipping and all the speculation can then go away. At least for now it's a way to vent...since we can't ride. :doh:

I just checked the Q9 site to check on the Tao Bull 200, which is what I have on pre-order since May... It's now showing sold out too. No longer taking pre-orders. They actually had 2 Tao ATVs showing "Add to Cart". A 110 and a 150. Everything else was sold out except the Tao Rhino 250, which they're still taking pre-orders for...

I'm hoping they know what their allotment is and they've hit it is the reason that they stopped taking pre-orders. If not and they just forgot to set the Rhino 250 to sold out... then we might all be screwed.

What I don't understand is how or why is Tao Canada getting periodic shipments of vehicles and the US getting nothing?

As for how many vehicles they're building... I don't know but on Alibaba, Tao is still selling everything and their estimated delivery date hasn't changed... This makes me think that there might be some fighting between Tao USA and TaoTao China.. Especially since Tao USA (Based on what I've read in the past) isn't a subsidiary of Tao Tao China.

Alibaba is one of those "other places" I was thinking about.

I don't know who is in charge of what but the man at the top of the Tao name needs to get with it. The name brand is taking a big hit just when they seem to be making some better products that customers want. :hmm:

Just saw this over at WholesaleATV..

==

****UPDATE****
Here is a list of what we know right now for products coming in and shipping out. We are and have been shipping out several hundred orders a week. Please be patient as we can only fill them as the containers arrive and are allocated, then they are allocated to orders in line and there are several thousand orders dating all the way back to April depending on the model.
*KYMCO Units - sold out until 2021s come in except for a few UTVs we have on the showroom floor.
**CFMOTO Units - sold out until 2021s come in sometime in late September or October except for a few UTVs we have on the showroom floor.
*Tao Tao kids units and dirtbikes have started coming in and we are only allocated a few at a time but we are constantly working through the lists on those and we are getting through the line fairly quickly on those. Tao go karts and 150 and 200s we still have no direct eta on container should be end of this month or September. We have heard that the Rhino 250s are coming any day but have not been contacted that they are ready to ship as of yet.
* Dongfang Units we still have no direct ETA on any products should be end of month or September.
*Apollo Dirtbikes have started arriving and we are currently working through the lists and getting them shipped out in the orders placed. Apollo atvs are arriving soon.
*Vitacci units are starting to arrive. 60cc Hunters will be arriving any day to ship in the order received. Vitacci scooters should be arriving the end of the month or September.
*Holeshots we are working on shipping out another 200 between this week and next.
*Icebear Scooters we have been shipping many of the models in the order received except for 50cc's they have not yet arrived to ship.
As soon as we are notified by any manufacturer that our units are in the warehouses and ready to ship we process them as quickly as we can. Please do not call, email, or post to ask about when your unit will be there. It is slowing us down trying to fill your orders and stay on top of the current situation all of us are facing right now. We are doing our best to get everyone their units as quickly as we possibly can during this time.
Thank you,
Wholesale ATV Team

Now there is a dealer that got specific and gave useful product updates to their customers with pre-orders. Now the customer can decide what to do about their pre-order/money going forward.

All dealers should follow this lead. I believe they know some specifics and just need to spell them out.

I just returned my VM22 carb kit and jet kit. I will make a decision on the Hellcat soon but it would be great to have some specific intel to go on.

Part of general August update from Q9 Powersports...

"We have a number of current pre-orders to fill, so placing a pre-order now, 8/1/2020, will not be able to be filled until Christmas time."

So no specific information on current pre-ordered products as far as what is actually on the move (or not) or any time frames. Apparently it means your April, May, June, July pre-order could be filled sometime before Christmas. That is my brilliant deduction anyway...lol.

I took that to indicate about a 4 month delay.

So my May 28th order could arrive maybe just possibly by end of September.

Maybe.