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-   -   Rehab thread roketa (http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20202)

Angus67 11-18-2017 04:12 PM

Thats what I’d like to do, but having trouble finding the right ones. Tive done 4 conversions to different bikes and it has alway improved stability

Ariel Red Hunter 11-18-2017 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan (Post 269379)
Personally, I would just replace those head stock bearings. It doesn't take much of the wrong kind of pressure to cause a small amount of damage that will grow over time. For less than $40 you can have both converted over to taper roller bearings, which are simply better. Plus you can have peace of mind.

Just my 2 cents, so take it that way.

That's right, if those steering head bearings have been neglected for very long, you'd need new cups and cones as well as new balls. Might as well go all the way and put in roller bearings. I've never had to re-place cup and cone bearings, as the bikes I've owned came fron the factory greased up big time. Chinese grease must be very expensive, considering how little they apply to their motor cycles....ARH

Angus67 11-18-2017 06:52 PM

Do you think bearings for a honda xr would be right? That’s pretty much what this bike is.

Megadan 11-18-2017 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 269389)
Do you think bearings for a honda xr would be right? That’s pretty much what this bike is.

The only way to know for sure would be to pull the head stock at measure the I.D., O.D., and height of the bearings. You can do so without pulling the bearings, and a cheap pair of vernier calipers is all you would need. Measure the shaft just above or below the bearing and the head tube right where the race sits. Then simply measure the height of the bearings as they sit on the head stock.

Likely they are the same XR bearings that most of these bikes seem to use, as it is a common bearing for many Honda dirt bikes, but I would hate to say "yes" and it turns out to be some other bearing size.

Ariel Red Hunter 11-18-2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 269389)
Do you think bearings for a honda xr would be right? That’s pretty much what this bike is.

Megadan would know more about this than I do. I seem to recall the the headstock has to be re-machined deeper in order to accept the tapered roller bearing. Perhaps he would be kind enough to address this question....ARH

Megadan 11-18-2017 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter (Post 269393)
Megadan would know more about this than I do. I seem to recall the the headstock has to be re-machined deeper in order to accept the tapered roller bearing. Perhaps he would be kind enough to address this question....ARH

I can't speak for his Roketa, but the XR/CRF spec head stock bearings fit the Hawk perfectly. No machining required.

Ariel Red Hunter 11-18-2017 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan (Post 269396)
I can't speak for his Roketa, but the XR/CRF spec head stock bearings fit the Hawk perfectly. No machining required.

Great, thanks for clearing that up for me....ARH

Angus67 11-19-2017 05:35 PM

Head bearings
 
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I took the front apart. The top bearings are ok, the bottom is toast. Anyone got a set of bearings they could throw my direction? Also, the bearing cups aren’t tight in the head tube.

Angus67 11-19-2017 05:46 PM

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The head tube looks cracked around were the bearing cup would go

Megadan 11-19-2017 09:50 PM

That is a total bummer. In theory it could be repaired, but I wouldnt bother for cost and safety reasons. Probably cheaper and easier to find another frame to put all of your goodies from this bike on.

Angus67 11-19-2017 10:55 PM

Well being a certified welder, should be easy enuf. Find steel tube with correct inner diamete, cut off the old and weld on a new ring

Megadan 11-19-2017 11:55 PM

Well, that being the case, here is a chance to beef it up with a thicker wall. The real challenge will be ensuring the inner diameter stays true.

Angus67 11-20-2017 08:48 AM

It is tather thin

Ariel Red Hunter 11-20-2017 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 269461)
Well being a certified welder, should be easy enuf. Find steel tube with correct inner diamete, cut off the old and weld on a new ring

I was semi-involved in a repair job of this nature a few times in my otherwise mis-spent youth. In the BSA-Honda shop where I worked was a middle aged man from central Baja California named Adelbarte Rodriquez. "The Torch" Rodriquez was his shop name, and it was a nickname of respect.
In those days, district 37 of the AMA put on dirt racing events at Corriganville Movie Ranch, owned by the one time stunt man and movie actor from the thirties and forties, Ray "Crash" Corrigan. Lots of "B" westerns were made there. A lot of scenery in a comparativly small area. Like 3 or 4 square miles. One of its features was a truly terrifying way too steep down hill section, the one you've all seen in westerns where the horses have to slide down. Naturally, the race had to be run over this section. Endo city. The most experienced riders could get down the hill without falling off. The really young ones had a lot of trouble. Our hero, or the goat of this particular race did three endos in his first trip down the hill. He did three endos, the bike? Six or seven. It was done for the day. He dragged it in to the shop for an appraisal of steering problems. It was one of the first all welded frames around. Maybe it was a DOT. Or, perhaps a Cotton. Its headstock looked about like the one in your picture. So The Torch was called over to consult. No problemo, he announced. A piece of heavy tube was found in the junk pile, cut, faced off, and a seat cut for the bearing cup, and bronze welded by The Torch to the headstock, after it had been aligned by the triple trees and the OLD bearings. I operated the second torch, as I was the smallest dog in the fight. I did the rough filing on the bronze weld, then The Torch finished the filing until a longer section of a larger tube slid over. Then I got to work two torches, to keep everything warm while he brazed the outer tube in place. Then the new bearings were put in place, the fork tubes straightened, and off he went....ARH

Ariel Red Hunter 11-20-2017 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 269475)
It is tather thin

Yeah, and I guaranty it is not high tensile strength steel...ARH

Angus67 11-21-2017 09:34 PM

Head tube rebiuld
 
3 Attachment(s)
Well a couple years ago i had a couple exhaust flanges for my 72 honda xl250burnrd out with a whitney 3400, and since i have an extra, im going to use it to re-ring the head tube upper cup. I had to grind off alot, and aftr test fitting i see i have to grind off more so the bosses in the upper trees that the risers bolt thru will clear.
So tomorrow, I’ll grind the ring down to about 1/8, and weld it up.

Angus67 11-24-2017 10:40 AM

After looking for days with no luck, I started a new thread asking for direct help in finding those bearings. And of course, i found them an hour later.
I ground down the support ring more, and ground the bosses in the upper tree to fit the ring, and welded it on. In doing so, I noticed the head tube isn’t straight to the frame. Oh well, for $40, its fine. Im also 45 years old, and wild and crazy days are long gone. Plodding along on dirt roads is all im intending to do on it.

Angus67 11-24-2017 10:58 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Pics of repair. It isn’t perfect, but will be strong enuf

Angus67 11-24-2017 11:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The top. If i had tig welder,I’d fuse the top. Perhaps shim with a strip from a b**r can?

Angus67 12-01-2017 10:09 PM

Whoo hoo! Head bearings in!
 
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I took a gamble and did my best to measure my beat up steering tube bearings, and $10 and free shipping, and a week later, they measure the same as the old. The only difference is that the cage that holds the bearings in the old bearings is metal, and the new bearings is nylon....maybe🤞
I put it all back together with the cog nut snug. Tomorrow i will cruise my bumpy driveway ve way a few times, and snug it up for good. I also switched out old fork oil for fresh atf. So. If your looking for steering tube bearings, these are them 2006 roketa
Comes with races too

Megadan 12-02-2017 01:20 AM

Most of the new cup and cone ball bearing sets have nylon cages. They may or may not have a shorter service life because of this, but they work just fine. I am usually more concerned about the quality of the material with the ball bearings and the races than the cage.

Nice job on that repair too. It looks really good.

Ariel Red Hunter 12-02-2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan (Post 270012)
Most of the new cup and cone ball bearing sets have nylon cages. They may or may not have a shorter service life because of this, but they work just fine. I am usually more concerned about the quality of the material with the ball bearings and the races than the cage.

Nice job on that repair too. It looks really good.

Yes, the quality of the balls in the caged bearing is the point, because so many less ball bearings are used with the cages than with the older "crowded row" steering head bearings. I would replace the grease that came with the bearings with the best marine grade grease you can find. And don't over tighten the bearings with the stem nut. Be careful about this, cup-and-cone bearings are sensitive to this...ARH

Angus67 12-02-2017 10:02 AM

Thanks guys. I only snugged it up. I'll give it a second nudge after I ride it today. I did use marine grease.
Now waiting for my new carb manifold. Should be here monday.

Ariel Red Hunter 12-02-2017 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270023)
Thanks guys. I only snugged it up. I'll give it a second nudge after I ride it today. I did use marine grease.
Now waiting for my new carb manifold. Should be here monday.

The age old test for steering head bearings was to put a box under the crankcase high enough for the front wheel to clear the ground, then with the front wheel pointed straight ahead just give the 'bars a little nudge one way or tu other, and the whole front assembly flops over to the steering stop. Then go to the front wheel and try to shake it fore and aft. When you've got both conditions met, you've got the job done....ARH

Angus67 12-02-2017 04:12 PM

Thanks. I had heard of that.

Angus67 12-02-2017 10:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
New carb manifold came today. I was hoping it would stop back sneezing thru the carb at idle. With some choke it clears up, and idles nice. The pilot is a 33. I i believe that means the pilot is a tad too small. I have the idle mix 2 turns out.
A 35 and 40 is on its way

Ariel Red Hunter 12-03-2017 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270049)
New carb manifold came today. I was hoping it would stop back sneezing thru the carb at idle. With some choke it clears up, and idles nice. The pilot is a 33. I i believe that means the pilot is a tad too small. I have the idle mix 2 turns out.
A 35 and 40 is on its way

I would check the float level. A too low float level can cause the same problem....ARH :)

Angus67 12-03-2017 05:44 PM

I have the float parralel to the body. I will check again though

Ariel Red Hunter 12-03-2017 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270092)
I have the float parralel to the body. I will check again though

You can also raise the float level, a hair at a time, and re-tune the idle adjustment leaner, if necessary. If you don't over do it, it will give a little "shot" of gas when you crack the throttle...ARH

Angus67 12-04-2017 10:36 PM

I checked the float level with the clear tube method, and is about 5mm below the bowl flange. Should be good? Pilots are on the way. I have a 35, 38 and a 40 coming. It has a 33 now, and with the choke just barely engaged, im thinking the 35 will be the one. Im 2 turns out on the mix screw.

Megadan 12-05-2017 03:30 AM

Do you get any light throttle stumble or hesitation?

Angus67 12-05-2017 08:52 AM

With the choke engaged for smooth idle, it runs fine. If th choke is off, it back sneeze thru the carb. I have the valves set at .003 for both

Ariel Red Hunter 12-05-2017 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270162)
With the choke engaged for smooth idle, it runs fine. If th choke is off, it back sneeze thru the carb. I have the valves set at .003 for both

Could you still have a tiny vacuum leak? I've had to squirt oil on the various parts/connections to find the leak before...ARH

Angus67 12-05-2017 02:09 PM

I may. I’ll check with a unlit propane torch tonight

Azhule 12-05-2017 03:45 PM

Do you have the stock air box or aftermarket pod filter?

If you have a pod filter, you might want to try and buy some kind of hose that fits your carb/filter to bring the filter away from the carb a bit, helps straighten/slow the airflow to get things working properly on some of the more picky engines/carbs

Ariel Red Hunter 12-05-2017 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270175)
I may. I’ll check with a unlit propane torch tonight

I don't think that propane is as good as oil at detecting vacuum leaks. If the idle steadies or goes rich when you squirt oil, it proves a vacuum leak. And if you see a puff of blue smoke out of the exhaust during this test, it reinforces the evidence of the idle changing...ARH

Angus67 12-05-2017 09:35 PM

Taken into consideration. What kind of oil? Sowing? Motor oil. Seems alot messyer than propane

Ariel Red Hunter 12-05-2017 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angus67 (Post 270200)
Taken into consideration. What kind of oil? Sowing? Motor oil. Seems alot messyer than propane

Any oil that's thin enough to pump out in a stream and is petroleum based. It doesn't have to be real messy, just squirt some oil on the connection between manifold and engine, carb and manifold. These are the prime suspects. If that doesn't find it, then i'd spray the entire manifold, possibly defective...ARH

franque 12-06-2017 09:28 AM

Another alternative: spray carb cleaner! If the idle speed goes up, you have a leak. It's also good for verifying spark if you have bad gas, or if the carb needs cleaning. The general rule, if it runs on carb cleaner, the carb needs to be cleaned. For testing for leaks though, just spray on the outside.

Angus67 12-06-2017 09:11 PM

Well, shoot. I thought ide check the tightness of the carb to manifold bolts. Apparently the washers i used were not thick enuf, allowing the nut to bottom out on the unthreaded part of the stud. So they stripped out. Need to grab another


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