on/off Rat build (with apologies to Doc's dirt rat LOL)

gloud · 02-08-2012, 11:11 AM

Got sick of trying to find parts for my 74 XL175 rebuild (they have a chronic problem with the starter shaft breaking) And wanted electric start anyway. (I am going to use it as a commuting bike 40 mile round trip)
So I found a 07 Lifan 200 gy-5 for 100.00 got it running by cleaning the carb.

started the swap into my XL175 frame. the engine is actually a little smaller in size, I had to move one bottom mount over 3/8" to get the sprocket to line up. My xl sprocket fitted right up BTW. (520 chain ) Had to make new front motor mounts, (bolt on) and a new top mount as the mount on the lifan is back farther than the honda was. Got most of it done but the top mount.

Next will be the wiring harness and swapping from 6v to 12V (biggest thing is the headlight.) I do have some pics and will try to post some.

FastDoc · 02-08-2012, 11:34 AM

No apologies needed I love it!

Funny I thought it would have been a direct bolt in replacement like it was in The Dirt Rat. These Chinamotors do great. :P

I expect that the 200cc Chinamotor will match the performance of the 175cc Honda motor quite well. Was the original a 5 or 6 Speed?

gloud · 02-08-2012, 11:42 AM

The back 2 mounts fit (mostly had to file out the top one a little) the front mounts where nowhere close, 1-1.5" off the top was in the center of the head on the xl and the back of the head on the lifan. both motors are 5 speed,

The xl motor ran fine, I just had to push start it, and the replacement starter shaft I found was close to breaking too. (and they are 150.00 if you find them )

The Xl175 was an odd duck of the Xl line, Just about all the parts for the engine are unique to it. Having ridden both (the lifan with a flat front tire too ) the Lifan had more power. I will possibly have to regear a little but we will see. (I am using the Xl sprockets. )

FastDoc · 02-08-2012, 11:50 AM

Also interesting is that on my Lifan the Honda sprocket would not fit.

katoranger · 02-08-2012, 12:43 PM

Where's the pics?

gloud · 02-08-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katoranger

Where's the pics?

Just got them up LOL had to finish lunch and resize them.

FastDoc · 02-08-2012, 01:08 PM

The motor looks right at home.

I found that I needed to reuse the Honda intake boot. The exhaust bolted right up. Do you have a place to mount the battery?

gloud · 02-08-2012, 01:22 PM

I am going to try to reuse the Honda airbox, the battery box from the lifan should fit where the honda one was. (the xl had the voltage reg next to it, and takes up about the same amount of room.) I will put the China Bike (CB)
electronics under the seat and under the battery as needed. (the starter relay etc)

I am leaning towards using most of the CB wiring harness but I am missing the left hand control wiring. (they cut it off) and the headlight harness. So I have been trying to find a wiring diagram with no real luck so I will be tearing into the harness and redoing what ever I need to. (I am an electronic tech by trade thank god LOL)

Exhaust is the XL downpipe/muffler. I had to cut the manifold pipe from the CB pipe as the XL one is too large. But will use the first 3" of the CB pipe and then weld it into the XL pipe. then it will mount as before.

I have repainted the tank and sidecovers and still have to do the fenders and then clearcoat it. (it is the 1974 honda xl175K1 orange and black) )

Once I get the engine mounts done and all the wiring harness figured out and extra tabs welded onto the frame I will repaint the frame Black.

I have new tires, bearings, brakes and cable for the XL also.

I also have rebuilt the seat pan and added a repro seat cover.

This is a before picture.

FastDoc · 02-08-2012, 01:34 PM

Your project is a bit more involved than the Dirt Rat but your's will be street legal and that's awesome. :P

The wiring on The Dirt rat was not so difficult but still took a couple of evenings fiddling. Finding a place for the battery and electrical tidbits was a bit of a POA. :?

The result was worth it. The Dirt Rat was an outstanding entry level trailbike. On tight little low speed technical trails the match for just about any other machine.

gloud · 02-08-2012, 01:54 PM

Yea this is my first street legal resto/mod. I have done 3-4 engine swaps over the years. One of the fastest was an RD350 engine into a Kawasaki Tecate 3 wheeler. I am 99% street now a days, too many screws and ti bits in the bones to go offroad much anymore. But I like the upright riding style and light handling of an Enduro. (and so does my back. ) (I Used to race Moto-x, Trials, enduro and hare scrambles. and ATC's in flattrack)

A spinal fusion and both knees fixed and both shoulders and I have slowed down some LOL Got back on a bike last year for commuting (my 78 DT175 yamaha) and did a little offroad mostly to prove to myself I can still do it.

Wanted a winter project and the XL was it. Messed around finding parts but I decided I wanted a newer engine with CDI, and electric start and easy to get parts. so I have been keeping an eye out for the Pushrod lifan and finally fell into it along with having some spare $ And I took the weekend off from dealing with my mom's estate that I have been dealing with since Nov.

Felt real good to do some wrenching and welding. Ahhh...

FastDoc · 02-08-2012, 02:00 PM

Wrenching is theraputic, although when things don't go right frustrating. it really gets to my OCD streak :roll: .

How old are you? My gosh you make my injury/orthopedic surgery list look quite short. :wink:

BUT I'm going riding this afternoon with Roger. I plan to do at least some of the ride on Rogers new KX450, Hannibal. 8O

gloud · 02-08-2012, 02:07 PM

I'm 48 Just an over achiever. It took me a long time to feel pain lets put it that way. Tore a rotator cuff in the left shoulder, had to have the inside of the right pinned, and torn meniscus in both Knees (one twice) . L5S1 in the lower back. Still have two more bad disc's above that, and one in the neck.
(the neck is combination from Steel pot in the Army and riding. )

But hey I can walk and do most anything I want to (slower than before..)
I was not far from a wheel chair before he fusion.

I am pretty anal about the detail work so I am sure it will take me awhile to get it done, But I will have it ready for riding season.

Commuting didn't hurt any of my ailments last year and I think helped my BP.

Have a good ride Doc.

SpudRider · 02-08-2012, 11:25 PM

Thanks for documenting your project with photos, Gloud!

Please post more photos. In fact, we would love to see larger photos detailing your work. I enjoyed seeing the detail in your last, larger photograph!

Spud

gloud · 02-09-2012, 06:33 AM

You never know how larger pics will go over, Some forums are nutty about big pictures. I will get some more pics when I work on the bike this weekend. (the advantage of carrying a Iphone all the time.)

Ordered the last few parts I should need (new battery and 12v headlight)

How Noisy are the starters on these engines? AS I didn't have a good battery
I tried it with the battery charger on it, and it wasn't too bad, sounds like the gears could be greased to help.

Jim · 02-09-2012, 06:48 AM

I'm not an expert on starter noise.

We like pictures here, so long as it's not ridiculous like 4 times wider then the forum formatting, but something like your last picture was great.

02-08-2012, 11:11 AM	#1
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	on/off Rat build (with apologies to Doc's dirt rat LOL) Got sick of trying to find parts for my 74 XL175 rebuild (they have a chronic problem with the starter shaft breaking) And wanted electric start anyway. (I am going to use it as a commuting bike 40 mile round trip) So I found a 07 Lifan 200 gy-5 for 100.00 got it running by cleaning the carb. started the swap into my XL175 frame. the engine is actually a little smaller in size, I had to move one bottom mount over 3/8" to get the sprocket to line up. My xl sprocket fitted right up BTW. (520 chain ) Had to make new front motor mounts, (bolt on) and a new top mount as the mount on the lifan is back farther than the honda was. Got most of it done but the top mount. Next will be the wiring harness and swapping from 6v to 12V (biggest thing is the headlight.) I do have some pics and will try to post some.
	0

02-08-2012, 11:34 AM	#2
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	No apologies needed I love it! Funny I thought it would have been a direct bolt in replacement like it was in The Dirt Rat. These Chinamotors do great. :P I expect that the 200cc Chinamotor will match the performance of the 175cc Honda motor quite well. Was the original a 5 or 6 Speed? __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-08-2012, 11:50 AM	#4
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Also interesting is that on my Lifan the Honda sprocket would not fit. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-08-2012, 01:08 PM	#7
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	The motor looks right at home. I found that I needed to reuse the Honda intake boot. The exhaust bolted right up. Do you have a place to mount the battery? __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-08-2012, 01:34 PM	#9
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Your project is a bit more involved than the Dirt Rat but your's will be street legal and that's awesome. :P The wiring on The Dirt rat was not so difficult but still took a couple of evenings fiddling. Finding a place for the battery and electrical tidbits was a bit of a POA. :? The result was worth it. The Dirt Rat was an outstanding entry level trailbike. On tight little low speed technical trails the match for just about any other machine. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-08-2012, 11:42 AM	#3
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	The back 2 mounts fit (mostly had to file out the top one a little) the front mounts where nowhere close, 1-1.5" off the top was in the center of the head on the xl and the back of the head on the lifan. both motors are 5 speed, The xl motor ran fine, I just had to push start it, and the replacement starter shaft I found was close to breaking too. (and they are 150.00 if you find them ) The Xl175 was an odd duck of the Xl line, Just about all the parts for the engine are unique to it. Having ridden both (the lifan with a flat front tire too ) the Lifan had more power. I will possibly have to regear a little but we will see. (I am using the Xl sprockets. )
	0

02-08-2012, 12:43 PM	#5
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	Where's the pics?
	0

02-08-2012, 01:22 PM	#8
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	I am going to try to reuse the Honda airbox, the battery box from the lifan should fit where the honda one was. (the xl had the voltage reg next to it, and takes up about the same amount of room.) I will put the China Bike (CB) electronics under the seat and under the battery as needed. (the starter relay etc) I am leaning towards using most of the CB wiring harness but I am missing the left hand control wiring. (they cut it off) and the headlight harness. So I have been trying to find a wiring diagram with no real luck so I will be tearing into the harness and redoing what ever I need to. (I am an electronic tech by trade thank god LOL) Exhaust is the XL downpipe/muffler. I had to cut the manifold pipe from the CB pipe as the XL one is too large. But will use the first 3" of the CB pipe and then weld it into the XL pipe. then it will mount as before. I have repainted the tank and sidecovers and still have to do the fenders and then clearcoat it. (it is the 1974 honda xl175K1 orange and black) ) Once I get the engine mounts done and all the wiring harness figured out and extra tabs welded onto the frame I will repaint the frame Black. I have new tires, bearings, brakes and cable for the XL also. I also have rebuilt the seat pan and added a repro seat cover. This is a before picture.
	1

02-08-2012, 01:54 PM	#10
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	Yea this is my first street legal resto/mod. I have done 3-4 engine swaps over the years. One of the fastest was an RD350 engine into a Kawasaki Tecate 3 wheeler. I am 99% street now a days, too many screws and ti bits in the bones to go offroad much anymore. But I like the upright riding style and light handling of an Enduro. (and so does my back. ) (I Used to race Moto-x, Trials, enduro and hare scrambles. and ATC's in flattrack) A spinal fusion and both knees fixed and both shoulders and I have slowed down some LOL Got back on a bike last year for commuting (my 78 DT175 yamaha) and did a little offroad mostly to prove to myself I can still do it. Wanted a winter project and the XL was it. Messed around finding parts but I decided I wanted a newer engine with CDI, and electric start and easy to get parts. so I have been keeping an eye out for the Pushrod lifan and finally fell into it along with having some spare $ And I took the weekend off from dealing with my mom's estate that I have been dealing with since Nov. Felt real good to do some wrenching and welding. Ahhh...
	0

02-08-2012, 02:00 PM	#11
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Wrenching is theraputic, although when things don't go right frustrating. it really gets to my OCD streak :roll: . How old are you? My gosh you make my injury/orthopedic surgery list look quite short. :wink: BUT I'm going riding this afternoon with Roger. I plan to do at least some of the ride on Rogers new KX450, Hannibal. 8O __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

02-08-2012, 02:07 PM	#12
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	I'm 48 Just an over achiever. It took me a long time to feel pain lets put it that way. Tore a rotator cuff in the left shoulder, had to have the inside of the right pinned, and torn meniscus in both Knees (one twice) . L5S1 in the lower back. Still have two more bad disc's above that, and one in the neck. (the neck is combination from Steel pot in the Army and riding. ) But hey I can walk and do most anything I want to (slower than before..) I was not far from a wheel chair before he fusion. I am pretty anal about the detail work so I am sure it will take me awhile to get it done, But I will have it ready for riding season. Commuting didn't hurt any of my ailments last year and I think helped my BP. Have a good ride Doc.
	0

02-08-2012, 11:25 PM	#13
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Thanks for documenting your project with photos, Gloud! Please post more photos. In fact, we would love to see larger photos detailing your work. I enjoyed seeing the detail in your last, larger photograph! Spud __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

02-09-2012, 06:33 AM	#14
gloud Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Westhampton Mass USA Posts: 155	You never know how larger pics will go over, Some forums are nutty about big pictures. I will get some more pics when I work on the bike this weekend. (the advantage of carrying a Iphone all the time.) Ordered the last few parts I should need (new battery and 12v headlight) How Noisy are the starters on these engines? AS I didn't have a good battery I tried it with the battery charger on it, and it wasn't too bad, sounds like the gears could be greased to help.
	0

02-09-2012, 06:48 AM	#15
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	I'm not an expert on starter noise. We like pictures here, so long as it's not ridiculous like 4 times wider then the forum formatting, but something like your last picture was great. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0