Bolt on no mods oil cooler? Any intrest? - Page 2

w0ss · 06-25-2016, 01:32 PM

I have an infrared gun and the bottom part of the engine is ~100°C the top is >150°C. Not sure exactly as my tool only goes to 150.

SeerAtlas · 06-25-2016, 01:41 PM

Damned Weld!

dunno why(maybe cause so wet down here this year that vent COMPLETELY slipped my mind. THANKS for the "heads up"

Wolftrax · 06-25-2016, 02:16 PM

FWIW. I have had an oil cooler on my Hawk the last 2000 miles. I ride a lot of highway at 55 to 60 mph. To date I have no oil consumption and zero issues with shifting, clutch or general performance. I was advised by the lead mechanic at RPS that if I intended to use my Hawk for long extended runs that engine temps may become an issue, he recommended an oil cooler. Almost all of the CG powered taxis/trucks in the third world have oil coolers. BMW GS's(1100cc) were oil cooled, the DR 650(650cc) oil cooled, the RE Himalayan(450cc) oil cooled. These bikes were designed for extended travel. My Hawk 250 is intended for travel hence I elected to put on an oil cooler and for $50, I consider it money well spent.

BTW, depending on the design and if it gets here in time, I would most certainly be intersted in the new oil cooler. Mine is prone to getting a bit muddy in it's current location.

fitze · 06-25-2016, 05:30 PM

Wolftrax, taxis/trucks also called in some places tuk tuks need a oil cooler because of the engine location provides no air flow across the engine. Plus most of the new tuk tuks have a thermostat controlled fan on the oil cooler.

My reply was you do not need a oil cooler for OHV engines on motorcycles like the Hawk. Not commercial trucks, boat engines, tuk tuks and DOHC BMW.

My drag bikes have oil coolers on them, but it does not mean I need one on a 250cc OHV Hawk.

With my 30 plus years of building engines it's a total waste of money. Ya dammit I am old, now everyone can pick on the old man

but still racing and it you think it works good for you or anyone put the oil cooler on.

SeerAtlas · 06-25-2016, 05:45 PM

At the risk of stating the obvious, your "drag" bikes run what, 9,10 seconds at hopefully high speeds? and you use coolers?

granted we're talking chick peas vs watermelons here

but the principal advantages are the same

whether "needed" or not, my ducatis have oil coolers, my yam dirt bike has an oil cooler, the klr's went all the way to water cooling, and personally, coolers just make me feel better on a dirt or high performance bike, YMMV.
so as you say ,to each his own. I agree to disagree,

Oh, I've been riding Mcycles thru mountains, deserts, snow, on five continents now for over 56 years

my fav current ride is my 850 odd lb Triumph 1700 twin T-Bird LT. (bout 1250 lbs. w me and gear en route cross country

and it carries over a gallon of serious synthetic

Hell, I even still admire the figure of a young woman (40 to 60 or so LOL

"Old", is more often than not, merely a state of mind

mjstef · 06-25-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitze

SeerAtlas, mjstef We can agree that we disagree, that's fine put an oil cooler on it. I stand by it's a waste of money.

And mjstef I live in Montana and ride in the mountains and have never changed my oil after a 50 miles and never had any shifting problems no mater how hot it got. What type of oil are you using?

Mobil Delvac Elite 15W40. Shifting begins to be a problem around 250* per my laser heat gun on the case right below the cylinder. I have seen 275* at higher elevations where it leans out. Took it out today for a 10 mile ride on county roads and never saw over 225*......

fitze · 06-25-2016, 06:51 PM

SeerAtlas, Only on some of our bikes (coolers). It's all about the temp of the oil and we can somewhat control it when waiting in line. You want the perfect oil temp when you take off at the line, but you never get perfect temp most of the time.

mjstef, Mobil Delvac Elite 15W40 Is a very good oil. Now don't laugh... we use SuperTech from Walmart.

Also we have a few ATVS and motorcycles with the Hawk style engines that we have used for years and we don't have any shifting or heat problems in the mountains or on the flat lands.

mjstef · 06-25-2016, 07:01 PM

I'm sure the exhaust back pressure creates a lot of extra unneeded heat as well. The catalytic converter in that pipe is pretty restricted from what I've seen. There's a huge difference between a cold engine and the clutch engagement and shifting compared to when it gets super hot. I'm going to see if I can find a port somewhere for a oil temperature gauge. From what I remember from years ago it takes 12 miles per hour to get any kind of efficient Cooling on an air-cooled engine. Many times we are going a lot slower than that. Also all the guys in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, etcetera who sit on these things in stop and go traffic would definitely benefit.

mjstef · 06-25-2016, 07:04 PM

The biggest pain-in-the-butt in general is trying to get the bike in neutral once it is hot. You have to shut it off. If the clutch is adjusted where you can get it out of neutral when hot then it slips. I can find no happy medium. 300 miles on it so I would assume it's broken in.

fitze · 06-25-2016, 07:09 PM

You know, not one ours has a cat, could that be part of the heat build up?

pcspecialist · 06-25-2016, 08:18 PM

Super Tech is rebranded quaker state and exxon/mobil.

kohburn · 06-25-2016, 08:30 PM

most of my riding right now is throttle pegged followed by stop and go with basically zero cooling (results in major heat soak), I'm down for an oil cooler. but it has to fit the TT250.

fitze · 06-25-2016, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcspecialist

Super Tech is rebranded quaker state and exxon/mobil.

D'oh!

You let the cat out of the bag, pcspecialist

It's just fun showing up at the tracks with SuperTech, you get a lot of talk, WALMART!...

Ariel Red Hunter · 06-25-2016, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

I'm not disputing the potential benefits of a cooler when I ask, are you running a filter on the vent hose? If you have an unfiltered vent hose that routes behind the motor and points at the ground, it's inhaling dust. A cheap filter (even a fuel filter) will keep dust out.

I think a filter on the crankcase breather is a good idea. But I didn't know that these engines had no check valves in the crankcase breather. If so, that surprises me. It used to be common practice to reduce air pumping losses by allowing air to only leave the crankcase, not come back in.

pete · 06-25-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjstef

FYI, Also looking at inexpensive handguards and larger footpegs. Please chime in and let me know your thoughts.......

those hand guards are really strong but the mounting hardware that
they come with is there weak point... alloy is to soft can't do the bolts tight
enough with out striping the thread to stop them turning in a fall...broken lever...

i have them on my xt660 but replaced the mounting hardware with Zetta units...

..

06-25-2016, 01:41 PM	#17
SeerAtlas Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 770	Damned Weld! dunno why(maybe cause so wet down here this year that vent COMPLETELY slipped my mind. THANKS for the "heads up" __________________ Seer's First LAW-"FLY THE PLANE!", fail that, and nothing else matters. 12th Law- Consider what marvels you might do if only you had tomorrow to live over again. Third Law-When someone tells you some thing "Can't Be Done", what they're really saying is They can't do it!!14th Law-Just because something "IS", doesn't necessarily mean it SHOULD be.. Eighth Law-The only true personal security is anonymity.Ninth Law-Humans tend to learn very little when speaking.10th Law-Some lives ARE worth taking
	1

06-25-2016, 02:16 PM	#18
Wolftrax Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mtns Ga Posts: 437	FWIW. I have had an oil cooler on my Hawk the last 2000 miles. I ride a lot of highway at 55 to 60 mph. To date I have no oil consumption and zero issues with shifting, clutch or general performance. I was advised by the lead mechanic at RPS that if I intended to use my Hawk for long extended runs that engine temps may become an issue, he recommended an oil cooler. Almost all of the CG powered taxis/trucks in the third world have oil coolers. BMW GS's(1100cc) were oil cooled, the DR 650(650cc) oil cooled, the RE Himalayan(450cc) oil cooled. These bikes were designed for extended travel. My Hawk 250 is intended for travel hence I elected to put on an oil cooler and for $50, I consider it money well spent. BTW, depending on the design and if it gets here in time, I would most certainly be intersted in the new oil cooler. Mine is prone to getting a bit muddy in it's current location. __________________ Mark 2015 Haosen Hawk 250 2014 CRF250L 2014 CB500X Rally Raid Last edited by Wolftrax; 06-25-2016 at 02:18 PM. Reason: add
	2

06-25-2016, 05:45 PM	#20
SeerAtlas Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 770	At the risk of stating the obvious, your "drag" bikes run what, 9,10 seconds at hopefully high speeds? and you use coolers? granted we're talking chick peas vs watermelons here but the principal advantages are the same whether "needed" or not, my ducatis have oil coolers, my yam dirt bike has an oil cooler, the klr's went all the way to water cooling, and personally, coolers just make me feel better on a dirt or high performance bike, YMMV. so as you say ,to each his own. I agree to disagree, Oh, I've been riding Mcycles thru mountains, deserts, snow, on five continents now for over 56 years my fav current ride is my 850 odd lb Triumph 1700 twin T-Bird LT. (bout 1250 lbs. w me and gear en route cross country and it carries over a gallon of serious synthetic Hell, I even still admire the figure of a young woman (40 to 60 or so LOL "Old", is more often than not, merely a state of mind __________________ Seer's First LAW-"FLY THE PLANE!", fail that, and nothing else matters. 12th Law- Consider what marvels you might do if only you had tomorrow to live over again. Third Law-When someone tells you some thing "Can't Be Done", what they're really saying is They can't do it!!14th Law-Just because something "IS", doesn't necessarily mean it SHOULD be.. Eighth Law-The only true personal security is anonymity.Ninth Law-Humans tend to learn very little when speaking.10th Law-Some lives ARE worth taking
	1

06-25-2016, 08:30 PM	#27
kohburn Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Coastal NC Posts: 537	most of my riding right now is throttle pegged followed by stop and go with basically zero cooling (results in major heat soak), I'm down for an oil cooler. but it has to fit the TT250. __________________ -whatever you do, just be awesome. - 2008 Kawasaki Versys - 2016 CSC TT250
	1

06-25-2016, 01:32 PM	#16
w0ss Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 231	I have an infrared gun and the bottom part of the engine is ~100°C the top is >150°C. Not sure exactly as my tool only goes to 150.
	1

06-25-2016, 05:30 PM	#19
fitze Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 63	Wolftrax, taxis/trucks also called in some places tuk tuks need a oil cooler because of the engine location provides no air flow across the engine. Plus most of the new tuk tuks have a thermostat controlled fan on the oil cooler. My reply was you do not need a oil cooler for OHV engines on motorcycles like the Hawk. Not commercial trucks, boat engines, tuk tuks and DOHC BMW. My drag bikes have oil coolers on them, but it does not mean I need one on a 250cc OHV Hawk. With my 30 plus years of building engines it's a total waste of money. Ya dammit I am old, now everyone can pick on the old man but still racing and it you think it works good for you or anyone put the oil cooler on.
	0

06-25-2016, 06:51 PM	#22
fitze Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 63	SeerAtlas, Only on some of our bikes (coolers). It's all about the temp of the oil and we can somewhat control it when waiting in line. You want the perfect oil temp when you take off at the line, but you never get perfect temp most of the time. mjstef, Mobil Delvac Elite 15W40 Is a very good oil. Now don't laugh... we use SuperTech from Walmart. Also we have a few ATVS and motorcycles with the Hawk style engines that we have used for years and we don't have any shifting or heat problems in the mountains or on the flat lands.
	1

06-25-2016, 07:01 PM	#23
mjstef Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lac Du Flambeau, WI Posts: 804	I'm sure the exhaust back pressure creates a lot of extra unneeded heat as well. The catalytic converter in that pipe is pretty restricted from what I've seen. There's a huge difference between a cold engine and the clutch engagement and shifting compared to when it gets super hot. I'm going to see if I can find a port somewhere for a oil temperature gauge. From what I remember from years ago it takes 12 miles per hour to get any kind of efficient Cooling on an air-cooled engine. Many times we are going a lot slower than that. Also all the guys in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, etcetera who sit on these things in stop and go traffic would definitely benefit.
	1

06-25-2016, 07:04 PM	#24
mjstef Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lac Du Flambeau, WI Posts: 804	The biggest pain-in-the-butt in general is trying to get the bike in neutral once it is hot. You have to shut it off. If the clutch is adjusted where you can get it out of neutral when hot then it slips. I can find no happy medium. 300 miles on it so I would assume it's broken in.
	0

06-25-2016, 07:09 PM	#25
fitze Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 63	You know, not one ours has a cat, could that be part of the heat build up?
	2

06-25-2016, 08:18 PM	#26
pcspecialist Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 583	Super Tech is rebranded quaker state and exxon/mobil.
	0