Do you agree with Crazy Carl?

[frostbite]

CrazyCarl suggested a contest to replace the 'China Riders' image at the top of the page. I don't normally post PM's but frankly I this one really cheesed me off.

So, honest opinions please. If I'm doing the community a disservice, please let me know. No repercusions - in the history of chinariders.net I've only deleted 2 accounts. Disagreeing with me is not grounds for dismissal.

BTW - I am aware chinariders.net is hardly the pinnacle of web design. My issue with this message is not the idea that chinariders.net is in need of a facelift or the concept of a 'banner contest', it's the derogatory and preechy tone of the message. Every hear the old adage, "You get more flies with honey than vinegar" .

Thanks,

Frostbite

Site Administrator, Dictator, and Clip-Art rapist

Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

Well Frost-man I'm going to be straight forward and honest with you and you may not like it but it almost has to be better than the current one. The current banner looks like it was created in Word-Art, cut out of a word document and turned into a banner. To some credit though, at least the advertising is gone.

Assuming that the new banner would be ugly I think is a kind of insult to the creative community here. Several months ago people already started to generate ideas and were basically dictatorially turned down.

How about asking - in an unbiased manner - what the community feels about it? This is about the welfare of the community right?

Also, if you feel that the website is reaching a point where it's too large or expensive to maintain by yourself, there's no shame in letting everyone know and share the burden. Again...it's a community.

I don't think people here are asking for a whole lot and the honor of having their work voted on and displayed would certainly be enough. To be straight forward again, it sounds like an excuse, and I have to admit I'm baffled.

If you've got some issues with wanting this site to keep pace with the industry why not come out and say it. If you won't, someone else will...it's only a matter of time.

CC

[olds_cool]

Looks OK 2 me.

I care more about the useful info and hanging out than a fashion statement!

[Gimpdiggity]

Although I do think that the current one looks okay, it does make the site appear to be a bit "amateur."

Now, don't get me wrong...there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with the site being amateur...

But what you have to ask yourself Frost is WHERE you want the site to go. If you're okay leaving it as a small close knit community (which it appears to be from my short time here) then I would say leave it exactly as it is.

However, if you have dreams of the site becoming bigger and more popular, you may want to entertain the idea of putting something different up there.

I personally like the layout of the site...in a strange way I enjoy the "bare bones-ness" of it all. I am a member of a VERY large sportbike community and have been for many years. I love posting there, but to be honest some of the "features" that they have added over the years have seemed to do nothing but clutter the site in my opinion...it's refreshing to come to a site like this that is a bit smaller and a bit more basic. It's actually kinda like the China bikes...not really flashy, fairly basic, but they work if you care to make them work!!!

In closing, keep up the great work Frost. I know personally how difficult it can be to keep up a website. I maintained and paid for an import auto webiste for several years back in about 2000...and it was NOT a very fun thing to do.

[frostbite]

Although I do think that the current one looks okay, it does make the site appear to be a bit "amateur."

I'm a network adminstrator, software developer by trade. A 'web developer' and master of photoshop I am not. The site you see is a standard php-nuke them with a couple of minor tweaks.

It may not be pretty, but it's always running.

We currently get ~1million hits a month. ~12K page views per day.

[Gimpdiggity]

At one million hits per month, I'd say that the site needs to stay just about the way that it is.

There's no reason to fret over something like graphics if you're happy with the way the site is.

And I agree...I will take a site that is up and running 100% of the time over a site that is running 50% of the time but has some flashy pictures.

[Jim]

To me honestly it doesn't matter...

I come here for the information, discussion, and community...

I do agree with your statement :

Originally Posted by Frostbite

I am aware chinariders.net is hardly the pinnacle of web design

And I am replying to that, as a whole, and not just the image at the top (which I am assuming is just the stylized text China Riders, if there is something else I am not seeing then correct me please)

I blame this on the use of a generic CMS... I think there are 2 main features here at China Riders, the forum, and the imager gallery... I don't feel a complete cms is really necessary.

The rest isn't something I think is used often... News is on the home page is rarely updated, and as such I never go to the home page... I don't think that you need to be constantly updating it though. I think the best would be to make the forum the home page. With a custom header with the links to the gallery, frappr, and the "swag" section, which could use some more items .

I think there could be a separate forum category for downloads such as the user manuals, parts manuals, and tech info print outs.

The your account link on the top doesn't make a lot of sense because that doesn't affect forum profiles. Submit news I'm guessing is also rarely used and I don't know that it needs to be there.

My opinion would be it would be best to make the home page of the site the forum, and have links in the custom page header to the home page (forum), gallery, swag, and frappr. The custom page header could have a new logo if one was created...

I have experience with phpBB and as such would never choose to use it myself. If I was to update the site with the suggestions I've mentioned I would swap it over to a SMF based forum, and convert the existing forum database so posts aren't lost. I would give the forum and the gallery the same page header, and create a page for the frappr link so it doesn't just leave the site, but maybe opens the frappr part in a frame under the page header.

These are just my ideas, and I don't expect them to be implemented as we aren't paying you for this, and I am sure that the rest of the members would agree with me that we appreciate the site how it is, thanks

[maf119l]

I don't really look at it but i would not be against updating it.Don't know if i would recommend a contest but if you posted a couple of options i would vote .

[almonpoole]

You can replace the header graphic or not replace it this would not matter to me, I come around for the information and to see what is going with everyone.

I am more interested in the data I find here I suppose.

[driller]

I like it the way it is :!:

[warrior91]

Chrome don't get ya home.
Simple is better.
Content over looks.

Kinda why I bought Chinese.

[kczukiman]

What logo. To be honest,why would anyone care what the logo looks like?
This a forum for information.Your not selling anything.And who do you need to impress?We are riding and buying 1200. bikes.Don't need a 1000,000 site.
This is perfect to me the way it is.By the way Its a good thread to say thank you.

[katoranger]

There's a logo?

I don't pay attention to much design stuff or looks. I care that I get the info I need.

Its your site. Do what you like. I do like the faster server. That's more important than the design of the logo.

Allen

[ambassador]

Logo? I go straight to view new posts and all is good in the world for me, I wouldn't change a thing...

One of my other sites,

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php

Over 50,000 members, I don't think the banner made that happen....

[CrazyCarl]

Once again: "I see, said the blind man."

So much for "Asking in an unbiased manner". Ask a pointed question to get responses like "It doesn't matter what it looks like." Well that's a little different from the long list of demands people expect from their motorcycles and I'm a little confused as to why the sudden difference: one minute demanding consumers and the next minute something else.

Could someone please explain how a banner change would decrease the quality of the content?

The question I'm asking is what if a site could could have a better interface AND more (good) information AND support/attract a larger community? Then what? How would these things happen without some changes? If people want six speed transmissions, bigger engines and proper repair manuals, then the community is going to have to grow and mature - not "sometime" but now.

It needs a larger body of people working together. Many here are aware that none of this happens in theoretical land it takes hard work and constant innovation - which is, btw, the same thing we ask from manufacturers.

Originally Posted by frostbite

BTW - I am aware chinariders.net is hardly the pinnacle of web design. My issue with this message is not the idea that chinariders.net is in need of a facelift or the concept of a 'banner contest', it's the derogatory and preechy tone of the message. Every hear the old adage, "You get more flies with honey than vinegar".

If you know it's not the best you can do then why not change it? What, if any, plans do you have to improve the site? You're the administrator so you're the only one who can do it and also why aren't there any other moderators? I can't see a reason why I should have to "honey" up anything and I'm not even sure that would make a difference. I know it sounds preachy and derogatory but at root it's honesty...personal and direct honesty. You may not like or even understand it but this is how my friends and family deal with me, and this is how I deal with them. We call it "hard love" and it's what I've learned on the road.

The response PM:

Originally Posted by frostbite

I've put it to the community - see suggestion box.

BTW, I didn't shoot down the idea of a contest, I just wanted to discuss it first. Apparently I don't move fast enough for you.

I think you have a funny sense of "discussion" but at least your last point makes some sense. The industry moves fast and there's need for changes - not next year or never - but weekly and monthly. This is about passion and wanting to take a major part in something we all enjoy.

I am aware that levels of interest and commitment in this field will vary but if the man in charge isn't prepared or willing to be "pro-active", then like I said in the PM, they should be ready to be replaced because as competition has it, someone will.

Just calling it as I see it folks - flame it if you want to. The wheels are turning and I want to be ready to move with possible benefits for everybody. A banner change is just one tiny part of what I perceive to be a bigger picture. There's more...

Crazy "Blind Man" Carl