Oil/Air Separator Canister Experiment

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by Jay In Milpitas

Looks more frothy than milky to me.

How does it taste?


Cancel that.

Jay, don't tempt me.....I was dumb enough to do the ballon trick...

jb

[2LZ]

When I put in new oil, it whips it up and fills it with bubbles.

[RedHawk47]

Originally Posted by jbfla

Experiment # 2

Plugged the hose from the separator canister, and opened the drain tube.

jb

When the plug on my drain hose was leaking it made an oily mess on everything behind it (as when traveling down the road) which then collected a lot of dirt.

[Fritz]

While watching some videos I found another interesting variant. Unfortunately I don't understand a word but at second 23:09 an option is shown how to make use of the otherwise useless liquid in the drain tube. I am not sure it is very clever since the liquid is containing fuel but anyhow have a look your self.




By the way i am eagerly looking forward for the results of all the different upgrades with respect to oil quality. Thanks for making all the efforts especially in documenting everything.

[jbfla]

Very interesting setup, fritz.

It looks like the man in the video is using the crankcase by products to lubricate the chain.

jb

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by jbfla

Very interesting setup, fritz.

It looks like the man in the video is using the crankcase by products to lubricate the chain.

jb

Old Harley trick. My 74 Ironhead came that way. It had a metal vent line coming from the crankcase that had a valve on the end you could open and close that sat right over the chain that would mist it....and people think HD is behind the times. ;-)

[Juanro]

But if the gases coming from the crankcase have fuel fumes, as it seems to be due to fuel contaminating oil by blowby... well, I'm not sure if I want fuel residues over my chain o-rings.

[jbfla]

Oil Analysis is complete,

And the results are surprising to me.

1% fuel in the oil.

This is with the crankcase vent hose running directly to the airbox.

No other changes to the bike were made.

The roads ridden, and the riding style were the same as the previous analysis.

Here are the comments from Blackstone:

JB: It's great to see fuel lower this time. There's still a little fuel in the oil, but 1.0% is not problematic as you can get this small of an amount simply from normal use. Potassium and sodium dropped this time, so coolant contamination is no longer a concern. The viscosity is still on the thin side for 20W/50, but with less fuel in the oil, it's closer to the should be range than past samples. Air and oil filtration still look good and wear metals are nice and low once again. They are holding pretty steady overall too and that's good. Better overall since fuel is lower.



I realize that one test doesn't prove anything unless it's repeated multiple times with the same results.

But it puts my mind at ease.

However, I've been doing some additional research, and it turns out that routing the crankcase gases directly to the airbox is not really a good thing.

An article in the Sept 2016 issue of Motorcycle Consumer News (p46) on "blow-by gases" going back into the engine intake states:

"the engine ...is inhaling a mixture of ambient air combined with water, burned and unburned fuel, combustion gases, ash and atomized engine oil that together readily form thick carbon deposits on the intake tract walls, and on the backsides of the intake valves....

......the consequences of this buildup: reduced airflow due to rough, narrowed passages caused by crusty surface....

...these oily gases add to the carbon buildup on the piston crowns and combustion chamber walls..."

And quite by accident I was watching the Motorweek TV show when this was mentioned:

http://www.motorweek.org/features/go...-oil-separator

It looks like routing the crankcase gases back to the engine intake (PCV valve) is a good thing for emissions, but not so good for the engine.

I think I will complete my second test with no crankcase gases going to the airbox.

Then install a new air/oil separator from CSC (already ordered), and try one last analysis.

.....That is if I can accumulate the miles here in North Carolina before the riding season ends for me. The RX3 will stay in NC when I return to FL.

jb

[detours]

Thanks for posting your Blackstone results, JB!

It's great to see less fuel in the oil ... didn't you have 4% before? I was a little worried that fuel would still condense in the airbox line and drip back into the crankcase. Obviously that's not happening, but like you said, a trend is more indicative than an individual test.

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by detours

Thanks for posting your Blackstone results, JB!

It's great to see less fuel in the oil ... didn't you have 4% before?....

Yes.

Here are the fuel/oil percentages of the 4 oil analyses:

The first 3 with the stock air/oil separator in place.

The last with the OCS removed, and crankcase vented directly to the airbox.

1st.....1%
2nd.... 5.5%
3rd......3.8%
4th.......1%

jb

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by detours

.....I was a little worried that fuel would still condense in the airbox line and drip back into the crankcase......

I think it did condense.

But it drained into the air box drain tube, not back into the crankcase.



jb

[AdventureDad]

Interesting findings. I agree, I don't want that sludgy air/oil/fuel going into my intake. I'm also interested in the findings of those very few that are running stock OCS with a higher temp Tstat. Maybe it's better to vent it to the outside world, with a check valve so nothing gets sucked in, as I am given to understand there is a slight negative pressure (vacuum) on the crankcase vent tube.

[Jay In Milpitas]

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

Interesting findings. I agree, I don't want that sludgy air/oil/fuel going into my intake. I'm also interested in the findings of those very few that are running stock OCS with a higher temp Tstat. Maybe it's better to vent it to the outside world, with a check valve so nothing gets sucked in, as I am given to understand there is a slight negative pressure (vacuum) on the crankcase vent tube.

The down side to a check valve is that it will create a substantial vacuum in the cases, pulling more combustion gas past the rings.

On a car engine with multiple cylinders and a PCV valve, there is always one piston rising as another is descending, balancing each other out. On a single it's a serious case of inhale-exhale. That's why an open (but filtered) vent is preferable.

[Jay In Milpitas]

Originally Posted by Fritz

While watching some videos I found another interesting variant. Unfortunately I don't understand a word but at second 23:09 an option is shown how to make use of the otherwise useless liquid in the drain tube. I am not sure it is very clever since the liquid is containing fuel but anyhow have a look your self.

Good thinking, Fritz, but the small amount of fuel would not be a big problem. I would be more concerned how much dirt and other matter is getting pulled back in to the hose when the engine breathes in.

[detours]

Originally Posted by jbfla

I think it did condense.

But it drained into the air box drain tube, not back into the crankcase.



jb

Actually, that's good. That tiny amount of oily residue is about what I would expect from blowby, and it's getting caught in the airbox catch tube. The fuel vapor is getting burned the way it's supposed to, instead of condensing and draining back into the catch tube or the crankcase.