More power... electric that is

[ckrug4]

Is there an upgrade for charging system or an add on generator for hawk? I want to add some light but as is it barely runs the turn signals. I'm changing to LEDs where I can to drop wattage. I have stock battery, maybe it just sucks, idk

[w0ss]

I am thinking you have another problem then. I believe the hawk stator is 180watt. Why do you say that it barely runs the blinker?

Check and make sure all your connections are tight. I replaced my stock battery as it would only give me a few cranks on the bike before it died. But I know others have used it without issue.

[jct842]

Get your meter out and measure voltage. What it is before starting, when idling, and at 4-5000 rpm. Also a load test on battery at a auto parts store or even walmart.

[humanbeing]

Similar topic: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15627

Originally Posted by w0ss

...I believe the hawk stator is 180watt...

In wet dreams ONLY
8 http://www.mxjidian.com/index.php?s=...pinfo/ptid/124
11 http://www.mxjidian.com/index.php?s=.../pinfo/ptid/79
12 http://www.mxjidian.com/index.php?s=...pinfo/ptid/125

[w0ss]

hmmmm are you saying it is 90watts only? Ouch, I guess might not be able to throw that 72w LED array on the bike

[oddthought]

Had anyone checked to see if the stator from the TT250 could be swapped in? If so, that's a significant increase to 300 watts.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by oddthought

Had anyone checked to see if the stator from the TT250 could be swapped in? If so, that's a significant increase to 300 watts.

What he said.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by ckrug4

Is there an upgrade for charging system or an add on generator for hawk? I want to add some light but as is it barely runs the turn signals. I'm changing to LEDs where I can to drop wattage. I have stock battery, maybe it just sucks, idk

Add some lights? I'm no electrical genius, but my experience is that a weak battery makes the alternator work too close to it's peak output just trying to charge the damn thing. A good battery will recharge to max in a few minutes after starting a ride. Then the alternator just kind of loafs along running ignition and lights. Only when you are sure the battery is accepting a charge at a normal rate, should you begin looking elsewhere. The best way to reduce the load on the alternator would be to change to a LED headlight, brake and tail light. I don't think that the turn signals are on long enough to effect this one way or the other. But the head and tail light are on all of the time, so that's where you can do the most good at reducing the load. I learned this the hard (read: expensive) way with my GMC big truck. I was replacing it's 125 amp alternator every 6 months until I went to an alternator guy who knew his stuff. That truck used four batteries. When he tested the batteries only two of them were good. So he put in another alternator, disconnected the two worn out batteries, told me to replace them before winter, which I did. I drove that truck almost a million miles on that alternator after that.

['16 TT250]

A weak battery won't put more load on the charging system, but it won't be able to help the system as much during high consumption/low charge moments like at idle with the lights & other stuff on. If the battery has gone bad in a way that it won't reach proper voltage, like a shorted cell, it can load the charging system. The stator in a bike's charging sys. operates very differently than the alternator in a car and generally speaking it can't be damaged by overloading.

In the scenario with the truck eating alternators the likely culprit was the mixing of good/bad batteries more than the two bad batteries directly. Any time a battery bank has a mismatch of batteries the bank does funky stuff and all it takes is one bad cell within the group. I see this most often on boats since most cars don't use a bank of batteries. The batteries with least resistance to charging will get a good charge and the others won't killing them exponentially faster.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

A weak battery won't put more load on the charging system, but it won't be able to help the system as much during high consumption/low charge moments like at idle with the lights & other stuff on. If the battery has gone bad in a way that it won't reach proper voltage, like a shorted cell, it can load the charging system. The stator in a bike's charging sys. operates very differently than the alternator in a car and generally speaking it can't be damaged by overloading.

In the scenario with the truck eating alternators the likely culprit was the mixing of good/bad batteries more than the two bad batteries directly. Any time a battery bank has a mismatch of batteries the bank does funky stuff and all it takes is one bad cell within the group. I see this most often on boats since most cars don't use a bank of batteries. The batteries with least resistance to charging will get a good charge and the others won't killing them exponentially faster.

I'm relieved to hear that. I never knew that the alternator on a bike is not like a car/truck alternator. You are correct about the bad batteries causing the problem. That's what the mechanic explained to me as he disconnected 2 of the four batteries. What had fooled me was the fact that the truck started really well, and the voltmeter was showing fully charged batteries.

['16 TT250]

I'm not always good at explaining stuff, and have had a couple rum & cokes, but: Both car and bike systems share some similarities. They both generate AC current that's converted to DC and maintained at a regulated voltage. With an alternator the rectifier (aka diode trio) and regulator are separate parts and usually housed within the alternator where on a bike the rectifier and regulator are usually one part and always separate from the stator. In a car's alternator a set of wire windings are spun within stationary magnets, with a bike's stator the magnet is spun around the stationary windings; different action with same reaction, AC current is created.

A car alternator's output is regulated by varying the strength of the electromagnetic field to make it work as hard as needed to maintain system voltage. When more power is needed the alternator works harder to put out that power. This can be witnessed by turning on the head lights or other stuff and hearing the engine sound change. With old non-electonic controlled engines the RPM will drop, with modern stuff the idle control system opens the throttle to maintain the RPM, either is generally audible. If the battery is at a full charge state the alternator is pretty much free-wheeling doing no work.

A bike's stator, assuming it has the usual shunt type regulator, is always putting out as much as it can. The extra power not needed by the battery/electrical system is consumed by the regulator, it's basically a controlled short circuit and is why they tend to get hot. This can be witnessed by turning the headlight or other loads on & off and you'll note no change in engine load.

There are newer bike regulators called series regulator that actually lessen the load on the stator rather than just being a shunt that consumes the excess power.

With your truck the alternator was maintaining the good voltage you were seeing so all appeared well. Problem is that it was possibly working like mad because half of the batteries were sucking up a lot of power to maintain their voltage. Hard to say without knowing what the actual failure of those bad batteries was, but the fact that removing them put an end to the alternator failures is as close to proof as you can get.

And I gotta know; WTF 4 starting batteries?!?


Edit: BTW; some bikes, like my old Motto Guzzi, BMW, and some others use an alternator just like a car but the usual is a stator system like the CBs use.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

I'm not always good at explaining stuff, and have had a couple rum & cokes, but: Both car and bike systems share some similarities. They both generate AC current that's converted to DC and maintained at a regulated voltage. With an alternator the rectifier (aka diode trio) and regulator are separate parts and usually housed within the alternator where on a bike the rectifier and regulator are usually one part and always separate from the stator. In a car's alternator a set of wire windings are spun within stationary magnets, with a bike's stator the magnet is spun around the stationary windings; different action with same reaction, AC current is created.

A car alternator's output is regulated by varying the strength of the electromagnetic field to make it work as hard as needed to maintain system voltage. When more power is needed the alternator works harder to put out that power. This can be witnessed by turning on the head lights or other stuff and hearing the engine sound change. With old non-electonic controlled engines the RPM will drop, with modern stuff the idle control system opens the throttle to maintain the RPM, either is generally audible. If the battery is at a full charge state the alternator is pretty much free-wheeling doing no work.

A bike's stator, assuming it has the usual shunt type regulator, is always putting out as much as it can. The extra power not needed by the battery/electrical system is consumed by the regulator, it's basically a controlled short circuit and is why they tend to get hot. This can be witnessed by turning the headlight or other loads on & off and you'll note no change in engine load.

There are newer bike regulators called series regulator that actually lessen the load on the stator rather than just being a shunt that consumes the excess power.

With your truck the alternator was maintaining the good voltage you were seeing so all appeared well. Problem is that it was possibly working like mad because half of the batteries were sucking up a lot of power to maintain their voltage. Hard to say without knowing what the actual failure of those bad batteries was, but the fact that removing them put an end to the alternator failures is as close to proof as you can get.

And I gotta know; WTF 4 starting batteries?!?


Edit: BTW; some bikes, like my old Motto Guzzi, BMW, and some others use an alternator just like a car but the usual is a stator system like the CBs use.

And those were big batteries too. Expensive. You needed four batteries in the winter to spin the engine up fast enough to get a good spray pattern from the injectors. The engine was a Detroit Diesel 8V71. As compared to Cat and Cummins and Mack engines, it was an easy starter. In zero weather, just a whiff of Detroit Diesel cocaine (starting fluid) and off she'd go. Thank you for the explanation on alternators. I had no idea bike were still using that 1950's technology to control voltage. I thought that went out with poodle skirts and blue suede shoes.

['16 TT250]

The injectors in my diesel are pretty done so it gets a shot of ether in the morning to get it's heart pumping. At first I thought it was the garbage I was running as fuel, but it does the same thing on real diesel.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

The injectors in my diesel are pretty done so it gets a shot of ether in the morning to get it's heart pumping. At first I thought it was the garbage I was running as fuel, but it does the same thing on real diesel.

My car is a 1977 M-B 300 diesel. When I bought it, 3 years ago, it had injector problems. Hard starting, which required long glow-plug cycles and injector nailing. PO had been using French fryer oil for fuel. I was looking for a product to try before I changed the injectors. I found a site for a garage down in Atlanta that has made a career of working on Ford diesels, and he had found a product that really worked on their injectors. And he ran several videos with engines that required several cycles to start cold accompanied by clouds of smoke. After dosing the tank with an ArchOil fuel additive, all of the symtems were gone within 150 miles. I bought some, and within 15 minutes the nailing was gone. Within 100 miles it started much better, and a 10% improvement in fuel economy. It has over 300000 miles on the original injectors now, and running fine. I doubled the dose for the first two tanks.

['16 TT250]

Ordered the diesel additive. They also have gun lubes, dammit. You owe me $50 if this stuff is garbage.

I've assumed my injectors are worn out, but I do seem to recall it taking a somewhat sudden turn for the worse so maybe it was a batch of bad fuel that did something, might know after the treatment.