ABS on the RX4 .... use both brakes or else ! - Page 3

Bob Kelly · 05-04-2022, 04:09 AM

Today I put the saddle bags back on the RX4 and it took some doing.... the right bracket is sprung to the point the bolt holes don't line up I had to spread the bracket apart and put in the bolt at the same time.... I did that by using a 1.5"x 1/8" bar stock about 4' long and wedged it against the tire and that bracket that bolts under the rear fender....
holding both saddle bags up and aliging the bracket with the bar and putting the bolt in with some blue lock tight on it took some doing....but getting the other bolt in just 2" away from that one went right in LOL ! I put blue locktight on every bolt I put back in there because those saddle bags probably will never come off again in my care !
....
I think I discovered something ...not sure but I think the Fuel injection system really wants to warm up first before you use it .... not like a car you can start the honda CRV out there and drive away imediately...but I think this bike almost demands to be warmed up at least a little bit because it acts like it loads up like you left the choke on if you try to use it...move it under power or something soon as it's warm it clears right up
so I'll try letting it warm up a minute or so maybe 2 minutes max and then try it and see if it still does that .... who knows it might be the fuel i filled the tank 3 months ago
and it's still full ....hehehehe been too cold to ride !
but today got to 70 deg ! WOOO HOOO ! we'll see if that lasts ! LOL
....
By the way are all you guys burning regular in the RX4 ? that's what I put in it for the first fillup and it's still a full tank 120 miles later ! LOL..... but hopefully those miles will change soon and get the girl broke in !
....

Bob......

Working_ZS · 05-04-2022, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kelly

... I think I discovered something ...not sure but I think the Fuel injection system really wants to warm up first before you use it .... not like a car you can start the honda CRV out there and drive away imediately...but I think this bike almost demands to be warmed up at least a little bit because it acts like it loads up like you left the choke on if you try to use it...move it under power or something soon as it's warm it clears right up
so I'll try letting it warm up a minute or so maybe 2 minutes max and then try it and see if it still does that .... who knows it might be the fuel i filled the tank 3 months ago
and it's still full ....hehehehe been too cold to ride !
but today got to 70 deg ! WOOO HOOO ! we'll see if that lasts ! LOL
....
By the way are all you guys burning regular in the RX4 ? that's what I put in it for the first fillup and it's still a full tank 120 miles later ! LOL..... but hopefully those miles will change soon and get the girl broke in !
....

Bob......

My 2020 RX4 always wants to stall at initial takeoff, no matter how long I let it warm up. In fact, I usually don't even have to put it into gear - just try to twist the throttle while in neutral and it stalls. It always starts back up, but it is a little irritating. Fuel injection map is definitely too lean, courtesy of the EPA, no way around it.

For fuel, I just use non-ethanol regular, with a squirt of Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant and Fuel Injection Cleaner.

Bob Kelly · 05-05-2022, 03:53 PM

I've got a full tank of last falls gas...regular...we don't have non ethanol here...
but I did dump some Sta-bul in the gas before I parked it for the winter
.... I am wondering though I know that CSC says it'll burn regular... but I wonder if that leanness at idle will go away if a higher octane gas is used
I saw a post somewhere, where the guy was running regular which was 86 octane and his manual said run 87 or better so he put a full tank of 88 octane in the bike and he could not believe how much better it ran the periodic miss at idle went away as well as the hesitation on throttle up.....
it's possible that all my complaints could be cured just by changing the gas I put in it.... manufacturers have no control of the gas changes that are put into effect and the bike is made years before you get it...so it is possible that a better grade of gas would make it run better....
either that or change the timing perhaps !
.....
I had a pontiac Bonneville brohm years ago with a huge engine in it... and the previous owner always ran premium in it I put regular in it and barely made it home ! ..it was pinging so bad and rattling loudly on acceleration !...
I simply retarded the timing a little till it smoothed out and had no problems with it ever again....and I ran regular in it for years !
.... ( probably saved a couple thousand in gas because of that ...premium is expensive!)
...
I'll get that spring on the RX4 and worry about the gas later ! HA !
Bob......

Bob Kelly · 05-19-2022, 02:41 AM

the RX4 has a 11:1 compression ratio and if I remember correctly 10:1 is the upper limit to regular gas... but they have fiddled around with the gasoline formulas so much it's really hard to say what the limit for regular is
but through my life I have found with bikes and cars and trucks that if you want to burn regular you just have to change the timing a bit is all....
but it is really hard to say if there is any timing adjustment on the RX4 their manual never mentions it and even though their trouble shooting section says check the timing there is no way to check it.... no instructions on where the timing marks are or what plugs you must pull to see the mark or weather you time it with a timing light or a trouble light or where to adjust the timing.... If I knew that the timing was adjustable or not I would probably already have changed it ...if you can't change the fuel ratio you can change the timing to find the place it runs the best at....
.... I'll never forget timing our ford pinto if I put the timing where the Motors manual said it ran like doo doo.... if I advanced it 10 degrees it ran fantastically....
upon invistigation because of that problem I found the centrifugal spark advance was frozen.... so I fixed that and the vacuum advance which was iffy at best....
I fixed all the problems and it still ran better 10 degrees advanced ! it was weird !
that was about the time I discovered that you could set the timing by the vacuum gauge
(you set the timing for maximum vacuum) ... so just for kicks I tried that and it was best about 8 degrees advanced I had no problems with the running of the car it ran fine for many years till we simply wore it out !
then we got a fuel injected pickup truck (toyota R22) and that vehicle changed my mind on F.I. vehicles ! I never had to tear into the carbs on that little truck ! LOL
and it worked for decades ! never had a bit of trouble with that engine ! changing the timing belt was a pain but that was maintenance !
.....
anyway I'm Rambling on.... so if anyone has played with adjusting the timing on a RX4
I'ed like to hear about it..... I assume you need to use the marks for the valve timing on the lower left of the side case by the magneto... but where is the sending unit and can it be changed any or is it just a put it on, and forget it ?
.....
Bob.....

Working_ZS · 05-19-2022, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kelly

...
anyway I'm Rambling on.... so if anyone has played with adjusting the timing on a RX4
I'ed like to hear about it..... I assume you need to use the marks for the valve timing on the lower left of the side case by the magneto... but where is the sending unit and can it be changed any or is it just a put it on, and forget it ?
.....
Bob.....

Unfortunately, since the RX4 is fuel injected, there is no way to change the ignition timing, short of flashing a new map into the ECU.

Bob Kelly · 05-20-2022, 03:30 AM

To me that statement says the sending unit for the ignition is mounted in such a way that it cannot be changed.... the CPU does all the dirty work of spark advance or retarding
so the sending unit just sends a signal to the cpu at a certain crank position....
this is all well and good because the cpu calculates what the exact timing should be
.... so the only way to change that would be to move the unmovable sending unit a tiny amount....so it would send it's signal a little bit sooner or later to the CPU the CPU will still preform the same calculations on the signal and fire the sparkplug at a slightly different time, the end results would be a change in the ignition timing....
Yes it's probably easier by far to just re flash the CPU but not all people know how to do that or have the equipment to preform such a task.... so they might like me consider the task of moving the sending unit a tiny amount ! mechanical changes to me are far easier for me to understand than soft ware programs that you have to learn and need to know really good before you make changes to the program inside your CPU
i.e. it's easier for me to drill and tap a hole for repositioning a sending unit than to spend 6 months trying to gather the e-prom burner and software needed and all that !
..... the problem is it's not the timing that is the major problem with the RX4 it's the fuel
they told the CPU to be way too lean so they would get past the EPA standards ...
.... something as simple as replacing the injector nozzle with a slightly bigger one may be all that is needed without touching the programming of the CPU !!!!
but where to get one is completely unknown at this time ! but to me that has great merit.... because the CPU controlling the injector turns the injector on and off at a certain duration each time and that of course varies with engine RPM....
the fuel pressure is a constant pressure ( if the fuel filter is clean) (if it's restricted it would run leaner than normal...like your bike eh ?) but... if we swapped out the injector for a slightly bigger one it would be like changing the main jet on a carbureted bike...
nothing else would change... because of the size difference more fuel would be added each pulse... and no more lean ... at least that is the idea...
....
Bob.......

Bob Kelly · 05-20-2022, 06:12 AM

I had a funny thought.... has anyone tried to take apart the injector on the RX4 ?
.....Probably not as most injectors are sealed units now days you can't take them apart and clean them ( you used to be able to do that !...at least on diesels!)
perhaps you could enlarge the hole in the tip of the injector....
if you were REAL CAREFUL eh ? it's a thought !
yah, I know it's like taking a hammer to a grandfather clock to fix it ! but extraordinary things have been accomplished by guys in their garage !
....makes a person wonder !
....can't no more than have to buy a new injector !
Bob......

pyoungbl · 05-20-2022, 09:50 AM

Drilling out the injector or installing a larger one, will not solve your problem.
Don't forget that the O2 sensor will signal to the ECU that the exhaust gas is running richer...and then the ECU will trim back on the injector pulse. You will end up at the same spot in terms of fuel mix.

There are a series of magnets around the flywheel, with a gap to indicate where TDC is. The crank position sensor is in a fixed spot on the block and detects the gap so it can tell where TDC is and thus set the correct timing. Changing the CPS location will probably involve splitting the cases and doing some serious machine work. Good luck.

Lukas · 05-20-2022, 10:34 AM

I don't understand this type of ideas, having a tool like HOD ECU HACKER, where everything can be edited, why change the position of the halotron sensor or injector, that is change hardware, if you have software options, or you can pay 30 euros and get a ready map of the ecu.

Bob Kelly · 05-20-2022, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

Drilling out the injector or installing a larger one, will not solve your problem.
Don't forget that the O2 sensor will signal to the ECU that the exhaust gas is running richer...and then the ECU will trim back on the injector pulse. You will end up at the same spot in terms of fuel mix.

There are a series of magnets around the flywheel, with a gap to indicate where TDC is. The crank position sensor is in a fixed spot on the block and detects the gap so it can tell where TDC is and thus set the correct timing. Changing the CPS location will probably involve splitting the cases and doing some serious machine work. Good luck.

Ahh ! good point ! that oxygen sensor screws up that idea real bad !
....yah I'm not curious enough to tear down the bike that far ! LOL
.... Lukas has a very good point problem is how do you find that stuff ?
.... got any links ?

.....
Bob......

05-04-2022, 04:09 AM	#31
Bob Kelly Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Weed, California. Posts: 271	Today I put the saddle bags back on the RX4 and it took some doing.... the right bracket is sprung to the point the bolt holes don't line up I had to spread the bracket apart and put in the bolt at the same time.... I did that by using a 1.5"x 1/8" bar stock about 4' long and wedged it against the tire and that bracket that bolts under the rear fender.... holding both saddle bags up and aliging the bracket with the bar and putting the bolt in with some blue lock tight on it took some doing....but getting the other bolt in just 2" away from that one went right in LOL ! I put blue locktight on every bolt I put back in there because those saddle bags probably will never come off again in my care ! .... I think I discovered something ...not sure but I think the Fuel injection system really wants to warm up first before you use it .... not like a car you can start the honda CRV out there and drive away imediately...but I think this bike almost demands to be warmed up at least a little bit because it acts like it loads up like you left the choke on if you try to use it...move it under power or something soon as it's warm it clears right up so I'll try letting it warm up a minute or so maybe 2 minutes max and then try it and see if it still does that .... who knows it might be the fuel i filled the tank 3 months ago and it's still full ....hehehehe been too cold to ride ! but today got to 70 deg ! WOOO HOOO ! we'll see if that lasts ! LOL .... By the way are all you guys burning regular in the RX4 ? that's what I put in it for the first fillup and it's still a full tank 120 miles later ! LOL..... but hopefully those miles will change soon and get the girl broke in ! .... Bob...... __________________ It's too late when you've gone too far !
	0

05-05-2022, 03:53 PM	#33
Bob Kelly Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Weed, California. Posts: 271	I've got a full tank of last falls gas...regular...we don't have non ethanol here... but I did dump some Sta-bul in the gas before I parked it for the winter .... I am wondering though I know that CSC says it'll burn regular... but I wonder if that leanness at idle will go away if a higher octane gas is used I saw a post somewhere, where the guy was running regular which was 86 octane and his manual said run 87 or better so he put a full tank of 88 octane in the bike and he could not believe how much better it ran the periodic miss at idle went away as well as the hesitation on throttle up..... it's possible that all my complaints could be cured just by changing the gas I put in it.... manufacturers have no control of the gas changes that are put into effect and the bike is made years before you get it...so it is possible that a better grade of gas would make it run better.... either that or change the timing perhaps ! ..... I had a pontiac Bonneville brohm years ago with a huge engine in it... and the previous owner always ran premium in it I put regular in it and barely made it home ! ..it was pinging so bad and rattling loudly on acceleration !... I simply retarded the timing a little till it smoothed out and had no problems with it ever again....and I ran regular in it for years ! .... ( probably saved a couple thousand in gas because of that ...premium is expensive!) ... I'll get that spring on the RX4 and worry about the gas later ! HA ! Bob...... __________________ It's too late when you've gone too far !
	0

05-19-2022, 02:41 AM	#34
Bob Kelly Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Weed, California. Posts: 271	the RX4 has a 11:1 compression ratio and if I remember correctly 10:1 is the upper limit to regular gas... but they have fiddled around with the gasoline formulas so much it's really hard to say what the limit for regular is but through my life I have found with bikes and cars and trucks that if you want to burn regular you just have to change the timing a bit is all.... but it is really hard to say if there is any timing adjustment on the RX4 their manual never mentions it and even though their trouble shooting section says check the timing there is no way to check it.... no instructions on where the timing marks are or what plugs you must pull to see the mark or weather you time it with a timing light or a trouble light or where to adjust the timing.... If I knew that the timing was adjustable or not I would probably already have changed it ...if you can't change the fuel ratio you can change the timing to find the place it runs the best at.... .... I'll never forget timing our ford pinto if I put the timing where the Motors manual said it ran like doo doo.... if I advanced it 10 degrees it ran fantastically.... upon invistigation because of that problem I found the centrifugal spark advance was frozen.... so I fixed that and the vacuum advance which was iffy at best.... I fixed all the problems and it still ran better 10 degrees advanced ! it was weird ! that was about the time I discovered that you could set the timing by the vacuum gauge (you set the timing for maximum vacuum) ... so just for kicks I tried that and it was best about 8 degrees advanced I had no problems with the running of the car it ran fine for many years till we simply wore it out ! then we got a fuel injected pickup truck (toyota R22) and that vehicle changed my mind on F.I. vehicles ! I never had to tear into the carbs on that little truck ! LOL and it worked for decades ! never had a bit of trouble with that engine ! changing the timing belt was a pain but that was maintenance ! ..... anyway I'm Rambling on.... so if anyone has played with adjusting the timing on a RX4 I'ed like to hear about it..... I assume you need to use the marks for the valve timing on the lower left of the side case by the magneto... but where is the sending unit and can it be changed any or is it just a put it on, and forget it ? ..... Bob..... __________________ It's too late when you've gone too far !
	0

05-20-2022, 03:30 AM	#36
Bob Kelly Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Weed, California. Posts: 271	To me that statement says the sending unit for the ignition is mounted in such a way that it cannot be changed.... the CPU does all the dirty work of spark advance or retarding so the sending unit just sends a signal to the cpu at a certain crank position.... this is all well and good because the cpu calculates what the exact timing should be .... so the only way to change that would be to move the unmovable sending unit a tiny amount....so it would send it's signal a little bit sooner or later to the CPU the CPU will still preform the same calculations on the signal and fire the sparkplug at a slightly different time, the end results would be a change in the ignition timing.... Yes it's probably easier by far to just re flash the CPU but not all people know how to do that or have the equipment to preform such a task.... so they might like me consider the task of moving the sending unit a tiny amount ! mechanical changes to me are far easier for me to understand than soft ware programs that you have to learn and need to know really good before you make changes to the program inside your CPU i.e. it's easier for me to drill and tap a hole for repositioning a sending unit than to spend 6 months trying to gather the e-prom burner and software needed and all that ! ..... the problem is it's not the timing that is the major problem with the RX4 it's the fuel they told the CPU to be way too lean so they would get past the EPA standards ... .... something as simple as replacing the injector nozzle with a slightly bigger one may be all that is needed without touching the programming of the CPU !!!! but where to get one is completely unknown at this time ! but to me that has great merit.... because the CPU controlling the injector turns the injector on and off at a certain duration each time and that of course varies with engine RPM.... the fuel pressure is a constant pressure ( if the fuel filter is clean) (if it's restricted it would run leaner than normal...like your bike eh ?) but... if we swapped out the injector for a slightly bigger one it would be like changing the main jet on a carbureted bike... nothing else would change... because of the size difference more fuel would be added each pulse... and no more lean ... at least that is the idea... .... Bob....... __________________ It's too late when you've gone too far !
	0

05-20-2022, 06:12 AM	#37
Bob Kelly Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Weed, California. Posts: 271	I had a funny thought.... has anyone tried to take apart the injector on the RX4 ? .....Probably not as most injectors are sealed units now days you can't take them apart and clean them ( you used to be able to do that !...at least on diesels!) perhaps you could enlarge the hole in the tip of the injector.... if you were REAL CAREFUL eh ? it's a thought ! yah, I know it's like taking a hammer to a grandfather clock to fix it ! but extraordinary things have been accomplished by guys in their garage ! ....makes a person wonder ! ....can't no more than have to buy a new injector ! Bob...... __________________ It's too late when you've gone too far !
	0

05-20-2022, 09:50 AM	#38
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	Drilling out the injector or installing a larger one, will not solve your problem. Don't forget that the O2 sensor will signal to the ECU that the exhaust gas is running richer...and then the ECU will trim back on the injector pulse. You will end up at the same spot in terms of fuel mix. There are a series of magnets around the flywheel, with a gap to indicate where TDC is. The crank position sensor is in a fixed spot on the block and detects the gap so it can tell where TDC is and thus set the correct timing. Changing the CPS location will probably involve splitting the cases and doing some serious machine work. Good luck.
	1

05-20-2022, 10:34 AM	#39
Lukas Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: A small Polish empire Posts: 244	I don't understand this type of ideas, having a tool like HOD ECU HACKER, where everything can be edited, why change the position of the halotron sensor or injector, that is change hardware, if you have software options, or you can pay 30 euros and get a ready map of the ecu.
	2