Transmission issues already.

TXDSRIDER · 12-08-2015, 06:37 PM

So my hawk has 300 miles on it yesterday I changed the oil so I could put in my magnetic drain plug everything went well oil looked good nothing in the screen. Put the same oil I had been using from day 1 rotella t5 15w40. Took the bike out everything seemed fine then when I went to stop I noticed I couldn't get into neutral which had never really been a problem. A while later it didn't seem to want up shift every time. I blamed it on the boots I was wearing that I had never riden in. I soon noticed I wasn't missing the shifter it just wasn't pulling up. So I parked the bike and waited until today to adjust the clutch cable. Took some slack out and it seemed better except neutral, I could only get it in neutral if the bike was off. Messed with the cable a little more and started to have some success with neutral but when I went out I was having a hard time up shifting especially past second as of my last ride I couldn't come past 2nd so I parked the bike before I did any more possible damage. Any ideas I'm still not sure if my cable is 100% adjusted right but it doesn't seem any different than before the oil change.

SpudRider · 12-08-2015, 08:33 PM

Check to see if the shift lever is loose. You might also want to tilt the lever downward a notch or so.

TXDSRIDER · 12-09-2015, 02:42 PM

So the shifter was tight and I moved it down a couple notches but I belive the problem is much more severe. After I re tightened the shifter with the bike off I tried cycling the gears the shifter has a hard stop trying to go above second it just stops you physically can not put it in 3rd. Except my be if I hit it with a hammer lol. I guess it could be a shift fork but at 300 miles. And I don't beat on the transmission. Of course my fake 90 day warranty just ran out too. Any ideas on the next step obviously opening things up is going to need to happen but could something just be loose or out of alignment. I knew I was going to need to tinker but this seems a little excessive for 300 miles.

SpudRider · 12-09-2015, 04:19 PM

The next easiest thing to do is check the shift pawl. To do this you must drain the engine oil, and remove the right crankcase cover. The shift pawl is located at the bottom rear of the engine, behind the clutch basket. It will look similar to the shift pawl shown inside the red oval of the photograph below.

Starting at the 8:30 mark, the following video shows how the shift pawl operates the transmission. Work the shift lever and inspect the shift pawl for proper operation.

TXDSRIDER · 12-09-2015, 08:10 PM

Thanks spud. I was about to remove the case but wanted to wait for your advice. I put the bike up on the stand and was rocking the wheel back and forth while shifting and got it to cycle all the gears multiple times. Took it out for a ride went 10 miles around the block a bunch of times no problems. Still seems a little harder to put in neutral than before the oil change but I can live with that I really only go in neutral if I'm parking the bike. Hopefully it was just a fluke.

On a side note I'm going to measure that led heat sink for you tomorrow when I bleed the chinese fluid from the front brakes.

MICRider · 12-09-2015, 09:12 PM

Silly question but is your idle set really high? That can make it difficult to find neutral as well.

SlowJunk · 12-09-2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXDSRIDER

So the shifter was tight and I moved it down a couple notches but I belive the problem is much more severe. After I re tightened the shifter with the bike off I tried cycling the gears the shifter has a hard stop trying to go above second it just stops you physically can not put it in 3rd.

Mine does not shift up from 2nd (to 3rd, etc...) if it is not moving (i.e. rear wheel turning). If I recall correctly that is the correct behavior as described by the manual.
I have found that after some run in (about 200 miles) finding neutral is much easier. I had to adjust (tighten) the shift cable at the engine. Then needed a few rides with the engine hot to set the correct shift cable tension at the handlebar shift lever. In addition, I made sure that the shift cable was not moving about where is fastened by the rubber band at the down tube. This was to make sure that the cable was not moving around the down tube to get near the exhaust pipe and heating up.

TXDSRIDER · 12-09-2015, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICRider

Silly question but is your idle set really high? That can make it difficult to find neutral as well.

No my idle is honestly a little low. If I give it a little gas while shifting into neutral it goes right in or if I shift to neutral while still rolling.

TXDSRIDER · 12-09-2015, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowJunk

Mine does not shift up from 2nd (to 3rd, etc...) if it is not moving (i.e. rear wheel turning). If I recall correctly that is the correct behavior as described by the manual.
I have found that after some run in (about 200 miles) finding neutral is much easier. I had to adjust (tighten) the shift cable at the engine. Then needed a few rides with the engine hot to set the correct shift cable tension at the handlebar shift lever. In addition, I made sure that the shift cable was not moving about where is fastened by the rubber band at the down tube. This was to make sure that the cable was not moving around the down tube to get near the exhaust pipe and heating up.

I had read that a lot of older honda motors don't like to cycle gears when stopped. That is why I tried rocking the wheel and that worked.

TXDSRIDER · 12-09-2015, 09:54 PM

I really think it had something to do with riding in my motocross boots and maybe botching a shift or two and maybe something got out of alignment or bound up. When I went for my successful ride I was back in my sneakers. Fingers crossed it was a one time event. But now I feel like I wasted my money on new boots because I'm afraid to ride in them lol.

MICRider · 12-09-2015, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXDSRIDER

I really think it had something to do with riding in my motocross boots and maybe botching a shift or two and maybe something got out of alignment or bound up. When I went for my successful ride I was back in my sneakers. Fingers crossed it was a one time event. But now I feel like I wasted my money on new boots because I'm afraid to ride in them lol.

I feel your pain, I have a set of Alpinestar Scouts that I bought online, tiny bit narrow but I couldn't return them so I'm stuck with them, lol. Anyways, I can't shift for beans when I'm wearing those boots. They are stiff enough that they take the action out of your ankle and require you to use your leg instead to shift... Some people say you get used to that but I haven't managed to yet!

jct842 · 12-10-2015, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICRider

I feel your pain, I have a set of Alpinestar Scouts that I bought online, tiny bit narrow but I couldn't return them so I'm stuck with them, lol. Anyways, I can't shift for beans when I'm wearing those boots. They are stiff enough that they take the action out of your ankle and require you to use your leg instead to shift... Some people say you get used to that but I haven't managed to yet!

You might try putting a plastic bag in each boot, fill water and freeze. Will probably stretch boot enough when the water expands to ice.

Cyborg · 12-10-2015, 09:14 AM

the shifting (no shift) when at a standstill usually means the clutch is not fully open and is slightly dragging ,,i've had that on a few bikes,,on a new machine it means (most times) the cable has simply stretched ,,,

wilserchinarider · 12-10-2015, 09:56 AM

Does the bike shift up through the gears at 10-20-30-40 MPH? I wouldn't expect a bike like this to shift effortlessly through the gears on the kick stand??? Wheel speed, engine speed and transmission like to be synchronized for nice easy butter shifts? At only 300 miles I might expect the transmission to still be a little stiff...

At speed my bike will effortlessly go through the gears, even without using the clutch....cant do that on the kick stand in the garage!

TXDSRIDER · 12-14-2015, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilserchinarider

Does the bike shift up through the gears at 10-20-30-40 MPH? I wouldn't expect a bike like this to shift effortlessly through the gears on the kick stand??? Wheel speed, engine speed and transmission like to be synchronized for nice easy butter shifts? At only 300 miles I might expect the transmission to still be a little stiff...

At speed my bike will effortlessly go through the gears, even without using the clutch....cant do that on the kick stand in the garage!

I was having the problem when moving also but after I rocked the wheel and cycled the gears on the stand (and put on my regular shoes) the problem has been non existent in 50 miles of neighborhood style driving so hundreds of full cycles of the gear box.

12-08-2015, 06:37 PM	#1
TXDSRIDER Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 157	Transmission issues already. So my hawk has 300 miles on it yesterday I changed the oil so I could put in my magnetic drain plug everything went well oil looked good nothing in the screen. Put the same oil I had been using from day 1 rotella t5 15w40. Took the bike out everything seemed fine then when I went to stop I noticed I couldn't get into neutral which had never really been a problem. A while later it didn't seem to want up shift every time. I blamed it on the boots I was wearing that I had never riden in. I soon noticed I wasn't missing the shifter it just wasn't pulling up. So I parked the bike and waited until today to adjust the clutch cable. Took some slack out and it seemed better except neutral, I could only get it in neutral if the bike was off. Messed with the cable a little more and started to have some success with neutral but when I went out I was having a hard time up shifting especially past second as of my last ride I couldn't come past 2nd so I parked the bike before I did any more possible damage. Any ideas I'm still not sure if my cable is 100% adjusted right but it doesn't seem any different than before the oil change. __________________ Brandon 2014 Hawk 250 Firehawk minibike Previous bikes~ 1995 Yamaha YZ125 1998 Yamaha YZ250 1981 Yamaha YZ465 1987 Honda TRX 250R X2 one stock one modified 2002 Buell Blast 2001 Buell X1 Lightning 2000 Kawasaki ZR7
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12-08-2015, 08:33 PM	#2
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	Check to see if the shift lever is loose. You might also want to tilt the lever downward a notch or so. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
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12-09-2015, 02:42 PM	#3
TXDSRIDER Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 157	So the shifter was tight and I moved it down a couple notches but I belive the problem is much more severe. After I re tightened the shifter with the bike off I tried cycling the gears the shifter has a hard stop trying to go above second it just stops you physically can not put it in 3rd. Except my be if I hit it with a hammer lol. I guess it could be a shift fork but at 300 miles. And I don't beat on the transmission. Of course my fake 90 day warranty just ran out too. Any ideas on the next step obviously opening things up is going to need to happen but could something just be loose or out of alignment. I knew I was going to need to tinker but this seems a little excessive for 300 miles. __________________ Brandon 2014 Hawk 250 Firehawk minibike Previous bikes~ 1995 Yamaha YZ125 1998 Yamaha YZ250 1981 Yamaha YZ465 1987 Honda TRX 250R X2 one stock one modified 2002 Buell Blast 2001 Buell X1 Lightning 2000 Kawasaki ZR7
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12-09-2015, 04:19 PM	#4
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	The next easiest thing to do is check the shift pawl. To do this you must drain the engine oil, and remove the right crankcase cover. The shift pawl is located at the bottom rear of the engine, behind the clutch basket. It will look similar to the shift pawl shown inside the red oval of the photograph below. Starting at the 8:30 mark, the following video shows how the shift pawl operates the transmission. Work the shift lever and inspect the shift pawl for proper operation. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	1

12-09-2015, 08:10 PM	#5
TXDSRIDER Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 157	Thanks spud. I was about to remove the case but wanted to wait for your advice. I put the bike up on the stand and was rocking the wheel back and forth while shifting and got it to cycle all the gears multiple times. Took it out for a ride went 10 miles around the block a bunch of times no problems. Still seems a little harder to put in neutral than before the oil change but I can live with that I really only go in neutral if I'm parking the bike. Hopefully it was just a fluke. On a side note I'm going to measure that led heat sink for you tomorrow when I bleed the chinese fluid from the front brakes. __________________ Brandon 2014 Hawk 250 Firehawk minibike Previous bikes~ 1995 Yamaha YZ125 1998 Yamaha YZ250 1981 Yamaha YZ465 1987 Honda TRX 250R X2 one stock one modified 2002 Buell Blast 2001 Buell X1 Lightning 2000 Kawasaki ZR7 Last edited by TXDSRIDER; 12-09-2015 at 10:00 PM.
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12-09-2015, 09:12 PM	#6
MICRider Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,274	Silly question but is your idle set really high? That can make it difficult to find neutral as well.
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12-09-2015, 09:54 PM	#10
TXDSRIDER Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 157	I really think it had something to do with riding in my motocross boots and maybe botching a shift or two and maybe something got out of alignment or bound up. When I went for my successful ride I was back in my sneakers. Fingers crossed it was a one time event. But now I feel like I wasted my money on new boots because I'm afraid to ride in them lol. __________________ Brandon 2014 Hawk 250 Firehawk minibike Previous bikes~ 1995 Yamaha YZ125 1998 Yamaha YZ250 1981 Yamaha YZ465 1987 Honda TRX 250R X2 one stock one modified 2002 Buell Blast 2001 Buell X1 Lightning 2000 Kawasaki ZR7
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12-10-2015, 09:14 AM	#13
Cyborg Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 7	transmission issues already the shifting (no shift) when at a standstill usually means the clutch is not fully open and is slightly dragging ,,i've had that on a few bikes,,on a new machine it means (most times) the cable has simply stretched ,,,
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12-10-2015, 09:56 AM	#14
wilserchinarider Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 380	Does the bike shift up through the gears at 10-20-30-40 MPH? I wouldn't expect a bike like this to shift effortlessly through the gears on the kick stand??? Wheel speed, engine speed and transmission like to be synchronized for nice easy butter shifts? At only 300 miles I might expect the transmission to still be a little stiff... At speed my bike will effortlessly go through the gears, even without using the clutch....cant do that on the kick stand in the garage!
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