Hawk - Rear Shock - Page 5

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-19-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

wound up with the rebound set to 2. preload i havent changed, im happy with the setting it came with.

we will have to wait to see how durable it is. but it has taken a pounding at Limestone and still feels the same.

seat height is 32 inches with this 280mm shock.

Congratulations! You've found a good answer to the rear shock problem. Not everyone has the problem (probably due to different riding styles), but for those that do, here's a solution.

Bronciii · 09-19-2016, 05:01 PM

is there anyway you could post up your static and race sag measurements along with your weight? This would let everyone know how close the 1200lbs spring rating would work for them.

jimwildman · 09-19-2016, 07:12 PM

yeah its 32 static, sag ill have to get someone to measure while i sit on the bike, but i would guess its 1.5" lower than static, this is at the seat, riders position. i weigh 163 lbs. theres a bit of droop as well, ill figure out how to measure that.

i have no race settings, dont do that anymore..

jimwildman · 09-20-2016, 04:16 PM

if i pull up on the rear its comes up to 32.5", static ie its own weight its 32"' and when i sit down its 31". hope that helps. took a spin last night and wound up dialing in more rebound dampening. so now at 3 of 10. it felt a bit springy at 2.

pete · 09-21-2016, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

if i pull up on the rear its comes up to 32.5", static ie its own weight its 32"' and when i sit down its 31". hope that helps. took a spin last night and wound up dialing in more rebound dampening. so now at 3 of 10. it felt a bit springy at 2.

how much wheel travel dose it have ?...

1/2" static & 1-1/2" rider... seems way over sprung unless
it has 4-1/2" of total wheel travel then it's right..
It must have more than 4-1/2" of total wheel travel...
Should be quite good on the road with those settings...

..

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-21-2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

how much wheel travel dose it have ?...

1/2" static & 1-1/2" rider... seems way over sprung unless
it has 4-1/2" of total wheel travel then it's right..
It must have more than 4-1/2" of total wheel travel...
Should be quite good on the road with those settings...

..

FWIW, I agree with Pete.

jimwildman · 09-21-2016, 04:04 PM

My measurments are from the seat to the ground. i never measured wheel travel, I think would,have to take the spring off the shock to do so.

The shock itself appears to have about 4" of travel, so more at the wheel, how much I dont know. but it isnt likely doubled.

how do you come up with 4.5" wheel travel? just trying to understand!

Keep,in mind the stock shock presented zero sag, even with me on it. had no spring adjustment, or dampening adjustment, and had the bike jacked up to 35" seat,height. a day of riding it with that shock was abusive to say the least.

Maybe my bike had a substitute part on it and others have a softer shock, but it was that stiff.

My problem was seat height and stiffness. so thats what I measured throughout.

The hawk will never have the suspension my yz250 had. that would drop 4" or so when i sat down, and still have plenty left.

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-21-2016, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

My measurments are from the seat to the ground. i never measured wheel travel, I think would,have to take the spring off the shock to do so.

The shock itself appears to have about 4" of travel, so more at the wheel, how much I dont know. but it isnt likely doubled.

how do you come up with 4.5" wheel travel? just trying to understand!

Keep,in mind the stock shock presented zero sag, even with me on it. had no spring adjustment, or dampening adjustment, and had the bike jacked up to 35" seat,height. a day of riding it with that shock was abusive to say the least.

Maybe my bike had a substitute part on it and others have a softer shock, but it was that stiff.

My problem was seat height and stiffness. so thats what I measured throughout.

The hawk will never have the suspension my yz250 had. that would drop 4" or so when i sat down, and still have plenty left.

All right. 4 inches at the shock mount. Don't see how it can be less than 6 inches at the wheel. Question in my mind is the spring rate. Never the less, you've done some very beneficial altering and testing, for which we should all be appreciative.

pete · 09-22-2016, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

how do you come up with 4.5" wheel travel? just trying to understand!

your quoted rider sag of 1-1/2" X3 = 4-1/2" should be your total
wheel travel if you have got the sags right.... but I don't think
you have as it must have more than 4-1/2" of wheel travel...

not all bumps come up so the wheel needs to be able to travel
down/out for the bumps that drop away..
you need travel in both directions.....

..

pete · 09-22-2016, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

FWIW, I agree with Pete.

be very careful it could be come a habbit....

,

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-22-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

be very careful it could be come a habbit....

,

I thought only rabbits had the habbit.

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-22-2016, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

your quoted rider sag of 1-1/2" X3 = 4-1/2" should be your total
wheel travel if you have got the sags right.... but I don't think
you have as it must have more than 4-1/2" of wheel travel...

not all bumps come up so the wheel needs to be able to travel
down/out for the bumps that drop away..
you need travel in both directions.....

..

At the risk of offending pete, I think he means that without adequete sack (or sag), the suspension cannot respond to hollows, only bumps. Which means the bike will sail over the hollows, breaking traction because of its in-ability to follow the terrain. Lack of sack is caused by too heavy a rear spring. Even my 1952 AJS 350 had two inches of sack, out of a total of 4 1/2 inches of spring travel, at the wheel, and they worked pretty well. That bike had "Teledraulic" rears, quite big around. Jampots was their nick-name.

jimwildman · 09-22-2016, 11:00 AM

so the rider sag should be a third of the total travel regardless how much sag the bike has under its own weight?

I sould measure the total travel and the sag at the shock, since I can see the travel there without having to exercising it. probly use millimeters.

would I account for the bump stop?

There is room to loosen the spring preload some without the spring becomming loose in the perches. I have not touched the preload setting as of yet. it is probly just some random amount by feel during assembly of the shock.

It explains alot about the way this bike handled with the stock shock and virtually zero sag. and perhaps why I'm so satisfied with it even if its not Ideal.

I'll try and make the recomended changes Tommorow Night as I'm taking it to Limestone again Saturday.

I have some footage of me riding/falling there with the stock shock, Ill take some more with the tuned replacement and we can compare.

I also added a bead lock to the rear tire and lowered the tire pressure to 23 psi for the trails, where the first ride it had like 35 psi to prevent tearing the stem off the tube. so that makes a big difference as well. Ill try to get the stock ride footage up on youtube tonight. and post a like here.

The difference should be obvious.

Ariel Red Hunter · 09-22-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimwildman

so the rider sag should be a third of the total travel regardless how much sag the bike has under its own weight?

I sould measure the total travel and the sag at the shock, since I can see the travel there without having to exercising it. probly use millimeters.

would I account for the bump stop?

There is room to loosen the spring preload some without the spring becomming loose in the perches. I have not touched the preload setting as of yet. it is probly just some random amount by feel during assembly of the shock.

It explains alot about the way this bike handled with the stock shock and virtually zero sag. and perhaps why I'm so satisfied with it even if its not Ideal.

I'll try and make the recomended changes Tommorow Night as I'm taking it to Limestone again Saturday.

I have some footage of me riding/falling there with the stock shock, Ill take some more with the tuned replacement and we can compare.

I also added a bead lock to the rear tire and lowered the tire pressure to 23 psi for the trails, where the first ride it had like 35 psi to prevent tearing the stem off the tube. so that makes a big difference as well. Ill try to get the stock ride footage up on youtube tonight. and post a like here.

The difference should be obvious.

On the subject of the rubber bump stops, these are really part of the spring effect. The add a lot of "spring" rate at the end of the stroke to prevent sudden bottoming (or topping) out. So they are part of the suspension. Great job, adding a bead lock. If you have a bicycle pump, you can try even lower tire pressure on your Saturday ride. If you are still running stock inner tubes, front and rear, I wouldn't lower the rear below about 20 psi. What are you running the front at? If you are riding the bike to Livingston, be careful about lowering tire pressure. Long walk home, pushing a bike. But if you like the way it handles with lower tire pressures, buy Michelin heavy duty natural rubber tubes. They are a lot tougher. You are keeping you spokes nice and snug, right?

jimwildman · 09-22-2016, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

On the subject of the rubber bump stops, these are really part of the spring effect. The add a lot of "spring" rate at the end of the stroke to prevent sudden bottoming (or topping) out. So they are part of the suspension. Great job, adding a bead lock. If you have a bicycle pump, you can try even lower tire pressure on your Saturday ride. If you are still running stock inner tubes, front and rear, I wouldn't lower the rear below about 20 psi. What are you running the front at? If you are riding the bike to Livingston, be careful about lowering tire pressure. Long walk home, pushing a bike. But if you like the way it handles with lower tire pressures, buy Michelin heavy duty natural rubber tubes. They are a lot tougher. You are keeping you spokes nice and snug, right?

tires are at 23 psi rear and 25 front.. rear tube has been replaced. front is stock.

Were hauling the machines in a trailer to Limestone, its about 2 hours south on the Pensilvania border, about 5 or 10 miles north of Bradford.. "Oil Country". Its interesting to see the old and new equipment in the woods.
you do have to be carefull that stuff would hurt to crash into.

09-19-2016, 05:01 PM	#62
Bronciii Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 1	is there anyway you could post up your static and race sag measurements along with your weight? This would let everyone know how close the 1200lbs spring rating would work for them.
	0

09-19-2016, 07:12 PM	#63
jimwildman Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 237	yeah its 32 static, sag ill have to get someone to measure while i sit on the bike, but i would guess its 1.5" lower than static, this is at the seat, riders position. i weigh 163 lbs. theres a bit of droop as well, ill figure out how to measure that. i have no race settings, dont do that anymore..
	0

09-20-2016, 04:16 PM	#64
jimwildman Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 237	if i pull up on the rear its comes up to 32.5", static ie its own weight its 32"' and when i sit down its 31". hope that helps. took a spin last night and wound up dialing in more rebound dampening. so now at 3 of 10. it felt a bit springy at 2.
	0

09-21-2016, 04:04 PM	#67
jimwildman Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 237	My measurments are from the seat to the ground. i never measured wheel travel, I think would,have to take the spring off the shock to do so. The shock itself appears to have about 4" of travel, so more at the wheel, how much I dont know. but it isnt likely doubled. how do you come up with 4.5" wheel travel? just trying to understand! Keep,in mind the stock shock presented zero sag, even with me on it. had no spring adjustment, or dampening adjustment, and had the bike jacked up to 35" seat,height. a day of riding it with that shock was abusive to say the least. Maybe my bike had a substitute part on it and others have a softer shock, but it was that stiff. My problem was seat height and stiffness. so thats what I measured throughout. The hawk will never have the suspension my yz250 had. that would drop 4" or so when i sat down, and still have plenty left.
	0

09-22-2016, 11:00 AM	#73
jimwildman Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 237	so the rider sag should be a third of the total travel regardless how much sag the bike has under its own weight? I sould measure the total travel and the sag at the shock, since I can see the travel there without having to exercising it. probly use millimeters. would I account for the bump stop? There is room to loosen the spring preload some without the spring becomming loose in the perches. I have not touched the preload setting as of yet. it is probly just some random amount by feel during assembly of the shock. It explains alot about the way this bike handled with the stock shock and virtually zero sag. and perhaps why I'm so satisfied with it even if its not Ideal. I'll try and make the recomended changes Tommorow Night as I'm taking it to Limestone again Saturday. I have some footage of me riding/falling there with the stock shock, Ill take some more with the tuned replacement and we can compare. I also added a bead lock to the rear tire and lowered the tire pressure to 23 psi for the trails, where the first ride it had like 35 psi to prevent tearing the stem off the tube. so that makes a big difference as well. Ill try to get the stock ride footage up on youtube tonight. and post a like here. The difference should be obvious.
	0