Magician or Hawk. Which is better for commuting only (no off road stuff)?

[mercybloodycroft]

I'm 5'2" female, 29" inseam. I believe magician has shorter seat height, but I'm not sure how big an issue this would be. Need to know which would be the better choice as a daily commuter, street driving only. Is magician same drive train as hawk? Same bang for the buck, if one isn't interested in off road?

Also, please tell me that magician and hawk are not much louder than a honda rebel. please.

[wheelbender6]

From everything I have read on forums, the Hawk is of higher quality than the Magician and it will require fewer repairs. Too bad, because I think the Magician would fit you better.

[ben2go]

Originally Posted by mercybloodycroft

I'm 5'2" female, 29" inseam. I believe magician has shorter seat height, but I'm not sure how big an issue this would be. Need to know which would be the better choice as a daily commuter, street driving only. Is magician same drive train as hawk? Same bang for the buck, if one isn't interested in off road?

Also, please tell me that magician and hawk are not much louder than a honda rebel. please.

The Magician is a lower bike. I have a 29 inch inseam and I can get my feet down. Yes, it's about the same loundness as a stock Rebel with the factory exhaust. No where near as loud as a Rebel with an aftermarket or modified exhaust. It also has a smaller tank and a very short range close to 80 to 100 miles.

The Hawk is a full size street legal dirt bike with a 35 inch seat height. The suspension is soft and will compress a good bit but not much with a light weight person under 150 lbs. There are options for lowering the Hawk. There's the lower seat option from seat concepts for the TT250, shorter shock, and lacing smaller rims onto the Hawk hubs which can get expensive. The Hawk has about the same sound level as the Magician.

[stretch8668]

Have you looked into a 200cc super moto they are a little lower and come with street tires

[mercybloodycroft]

Originally Posted by ben2go

Yes, it's about the same loundness as a stock Rebel with the factory exhaust. No where near as loud as a Rebel with an aftermarket or modified exhaust.

This makes me happy to know.

Originally Posted by ben2go

It also has a smaller tank and a very short range close to 80 to 100 miles.

I have read that the hawk has a 3 gallon tank. If the range is only 80-100 miles with on street driving only, that is gas mileage of 26-33 mpg. Is that right?

[timcosby]

Originally Posted by mercybloodycroft

This makes me happy to know.




I have read that the hawk has a 3 gallon tank. If the range is only 80-100 miles with on street driving only, that is gas mileage of 26-33 mpg. Is that right?

the magician has the smaller tank not the hawk. hawk is 60-80 mpg

[humanbeing]

He's talking the magican which inspired by Yamaha XG250: ~7.2L (ie. <2 gallon)
===
Under normal street riding these CG250 can archive at least 5? mpg

[mercybloodycroft]

Originally Posted by timcosby

the magician has the smaller tank not the hawk. hawk is 60-80 mpg

Oh. It's so confusing, because specs on this page say 3+ gallon tank on the magician: http://www.myscootersandatvs.com/New...tock-now-!.htm

Thanks for the correct info.

[culcune]

The Magician would be better suited to commuting duty, hands down! There is a young woman on the Chinabike group on Facebook who owns and rides a Hawk; she is short, but has gotten used to her Hawk. So, it would depend on what you prefer, and wouldn't mind handling.

[humanbeing]

(Chinese solution = at ur own risk) Aux fuel for magician
http://www.motorfans.com.cn/thread-18033327-1-1.html
1.Add some muffler shape...
2.Chonda OHV small engine tank on luggage rack 5#

[Megadan]

First, before I delve into this too much let me make a suggestion. You can ask opinions and read until your voice goes and your eyes bleed, but the only way to really know if you can make it work would be to sit on one, or at least a similar bike with the same seat height. This will be the only way to know for sure.

Second. I use my Hawk almost daily for on-road commuting duty. Re-gearing is highly recommended for this type of use if you plan on using any sort of highway or road with speed limits of 55mph or higher for any length of time. This applies to both bikes.

Anyways. So lets look at a few things being considered.

Seat Height. Hawk 35.4" vs. Magician 32.3
Now, as I mentioned in your other thread, and others have since mentioned here, the seat concepts TT250 seat lowers the seat height by about 2 inches, leaving the Hawk at 33.4", only an inch higher than the Magician. While this can make a difference to some degree, it's not much of one.

Engine and economy wise, they are exactly the same. Once broken in and properly tuned with a little re-gearing via the sprockets the Hawk will easily get mid 60 to mid 70mpg in strictly road use scenarios. My large 260lb butt consistently manages to get an average of 68mpg using my bike to go to work, with a mix of city and highway riding. Pure highway at 55-60mph I have gotten 74mpg.

The mention of the gears brings us to the next point. The Hawk has way more options that are readily available for rear sprockets, all the way down to 39 teeth. The Magician has zero rear sprocket options without ordering very expensive sprockets from outside of the U.S., and even when found the options are limited. the tallest rear sprocket I have found for the Magician is a 43 tooth, which is 2 less than the stock 45. The same front sprocket is used however, so a 17 tooth front can be put on the Magician.

The magician with a 17 tooth front sprocket and 45 tooth rear and it's smaller diameter rear tire has the same final drive as a Hawk with a 17 front and 49 rear. Meanwhile, the Hawk can still be geared down all the way to a 39 tooth rear sprocket if you so desired, which would be very beneficial to a bike used mainly on-road, especially if you plan on using your bike on any highway for any length of time. Screaming along at 7000rpm to go 60mph isn't the most ideal. The Hawk can be geared to sit at or below 6000rpm at 60mph, which makes a huge difference.

The Hawks larger diameter tires also make for a much more stable bike at speed, just general physics at work there.

Oh, and the Hawk has roughly a 3.5 gallon tank. I absolutely love the extra capacity. Having to stop and fill every other day gets annoying.

Both bikes have options for pure road tires in their rim sizes, although the Magician has a couple of more options. Not a deal breaker to me.

The biggest issue I have with recommending the Magician at this point is the known issues others have experienced. Low quality plastics is one thing, but frames cracking at welds and fuel tanks getting holes in them disturbs me. Although the Hawk tanks do seem to have an occasional quality issues with the welds for the fuel petcock on the tank leaking a little too, but it is far less common.

As far as how loud the Hawk is with the stock exhaust... it is ridiculously quiet.

I would like to note that to get the most out of either bike, especially if you want to use it for regular highway use, I would advise at least getting rid of the catalyst in the exhaust. It creates a ton of heat in a bad place to have a ton of heat, and it also creates one heck of a restriction in the exhaust that really holds the engine back. Not necessary, but when I changed out for the "aftermarket" exhaust, I noticed that my catalyst was already starting to fail after less than 1000 miles. I found bits of it in the rest of the exhaust.

[Megadan]

So as to not write too long of a post, I can summarize.

Hawk:
- better overall quality (currently).
- More readily available sprocket options, awesome digital cluster with a tach is available (I recommend this highly for road use) although eventually I am sure there will be one for the Magician as well, but currently not.
- Most issues are known and simple to fix.
- More owner support.
- seat height can be altered close to that of the Magician without lowering the bike (not something I recommend until all other options are exhausted).

Magician:
- Cheaper. Already about $300 cheaper in retail price, and if you add the seat to the Hawk that gap widens to $500.
- Currently has more issues, but a big safety concern would be potential frame cracking issues.
- Rear sprocket availability is limited and expensive ($80 or more) if you want to try to re-gear more than simply a front sprocket.
- A few more options for road-only tires with factory rims.

Again, I stress, if you can find a way to put your behind in the seat of a Hawk then do so. This will tell you for sure if it is something you can work with.

Also, consider other options similar to the Hawk such as the Roketa/Bashan Storm 250. A few companies sell these bikes, which are very similar to the Hawk in many regards, but come with a 19"/17" tire combination and have a 33.5" seat height, just like the Magician. There is also the Brozz 250.

[pete]

no offroad... then buy a road bike...

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by mercybloodycroft

I'm 5'2" female, 29" inseam. I believe magician has shorter seat height, but I'm not sure how big an issue this would be. Need to know which would be the better choice as a daily commuter, street driving only. Is magician same drive train as hawk? Same bang for the buck, if one isn't interested in off road?

Also, please tell me that magician and hawk are not much louder than a honda rebel. please.

Both of them are very quiet. There are guys on here with 29" inseams that haven't had any trouble, or overcame the issue by mounting it more like you would a horse. Kickstand down, left foot on left footrest, swing right leg over. Learn this mount with the left side near a wall, as that will teach you to not have your weight hanging out too far to the left...ARH

[mercybloodycroft]

Originally Posted by Megadan

...the only way to really know if you can make it work would be to sit on one, or at least a similar bike with the same seat height. This will be the only way to know for sure.

Therein lies the reason I am asking for information. It is impossible for me to do this, as there is no local outlet that sells them, I do not know anyone locally who has either one, and I cannot get to a town where they are sold. No transportation, no money for bus, no time to get away.

Thanks for taking the time to post all the information. It is very helpful. Whichever one I get, I know I will definitely have to make modifications. It is good that so many of you have posted such helpful information on these forums.