Hawk Talk

[Ariel Red Hunter]

This is a commentary on what I have noticed about the Hawk. It has sold very well, which is good for potential riders, reducing potential parts problems. And a large history of success in the hands of riders. Most people are very happy with their Hawks, but some have had minor problems. Now to the nittie-gritti. The engine is a very good one, originally made for Honda in China. It was originally a 125 or 150, so expanding it to 229cc is about as far as they can go. It is a pushrod single with a short stroke, which means it can sustain high rpm's without valve float, because the pushrods are very short and light. Caged ball main bearings with a roller bearing crankpin. It does not have a crankshaft counter-balancer shaft, although 250's really don't need balancer shafts. The plus on this engine for you is that the non balance shaft engines have a gear drive oil pump. The counter-balanced engines have a chain driven oil pump. Gear drive primary to the clutch and transmission, which is a five speed. Final drive is by 428 chain. The quality of the final drive chain is suspect. Another problem is in the quality of the fluids used on the bike. I would change the engine/transmission oil before I even started it for the first time to some high quality American 15W-40 oil. I would also clean the brake rotors with brake cleaner before I rode it for the first time. The brake fluid is also suspect. Change it out to an American/Canadian DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. If, after a couple hundred miles, the front forks are not damped well enough, change that out too. People have reported good luck using ATF in the forks. Well that's enough for now. Later we will get into carburation an exhaust issues, and drive chain suggestions.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

This is a commentary on what I have noticed about the Hawk. It has sold very well, which is good for potential riders, reducing potential parts problems. And a large history of success in the hands of riders. Most people are very happy with their Hawks, but some have had minor problems. Now to the nittie-gritti. The engine is a very good one, originally made for Honda in China. It was originally a 125 or 150, so expanding it to 229cc is about as far as they can go. It is a pushrod single with a short stroke, which means it can sustain high rpm's without valve float, because the pushrods are very short and light. Caged ball main bearings with a roller bearing crankpin. It does not have a crankshaft counter-balancer shaft, although 250's really don't need balancer shafts. The plus on this engine for you is that the non balance shaft engines have a gear drive oil pump. The counter-balanced engines have a chain driven oil pump. Gear drive primary to the clutch and transmission, which is a five speed. Final drive is by 428 chain. The quality of the final drive chain is suspect. Another problem is in the quality of the fluids used on the bike. I would change the engine/transmission oil before I even started it for the first time to some high quality American 15W-40 oil. I would also clean the brake rotors with brake cleaner before I rode it for the first time. The brake fluid is also suspect. Change it out to an American/Canadian DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. If, after a couple hundred miles, the front forks are not damped well enough, change that out too. People have reported good luck using ATF in the forks. Well that's enough for now. Later we will get into carburation an exhaust issues, and drive chain suggestions.

Great job Ariel Red Hunter. I have been waiting for an article like this regarding the engine,now I feel a lot better when I hold the throttle open.I have been very impressed so far with the quality of the bike being my first chinese bike.More info will be appreciated.

[jet321]

Good write up Red. I feel the same about the hawk, it's definitely an econo bike. It's cheap fun honestly, you can go anywhere with that little bike. There's issues here and there, but a lot of them can be avoided if you're the first time owner and set it up properly.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by chuck

Great job Ariel Red Hunter. I have been waiting for an article like this regarding the engine,now I feel a lot better when I hold the throttle open.I have been very impressed so far with the quality of the bike being my first chinese bike.More info will be appreciated.

Yes, it is a superb little engine, almost perfect for its role in the Hawk. A wide mid-range that is what you need off road, and this engine has it. But it can be improved. The jetting in the carburetor is way too lean, the exhaust system reminds me of what a top engine tuner described the problem with my AJS 350. "It inhales really well, but it suffers from constipation on the exhaust side". The head pipe of the exhaust is awful - not to even mention the catalytic strangler that is in there. Even if you remove the cat, the poor flow at the very beginning of the head pipe and the gasket between the port and the head pipe are pretty bad. I personally would change the carburetor out for a Mikuni VM 26 (So much easier to re-jet), and buy and install a complete new after market exhaust system, not forgetting to use that Honda copper o-ring gasket next to the exhaust port. When riding off road, having an exhaust you can hear is much more useful than having a tachometer. I think the Magician is a considerably better on-road bike, a tach on the Magician would serve as something besides an ornament. Modifying the air box for more flow helps also. Moto-cheez has a youtube video showing how to do it.

[pete]

The push rods are light but still have mass that is traveling in a
linar motion and has to be stoped then returned in the oppisite direction..
A over head cam shaft dose have a lot more mass but is dynamic & dose not require
stoping to change direction like push rods..


..

[Bruce's]

What have you done to the head pipe on yours Ariel ?did you find something that works off the shelf or build your own ?

[2LZ]

Good write-up. I've had both versions now of the venerable CG motor. The balanced shaft is definitely more smooth across the RPM range, though the non-balanced motor is more simple with less parts. You can't go wrong with either version.

The Hawk is by far the "best 2 wheeled bang for the buck" on the planet (Storm is right there as well if you can get one). I'd say the biggest issue that the Hawk has is that RPS doesn't seem to be in a big rush to spend the $$$ to get it DOT approval.

Coming from CA, I can see that jumping through the CARB hoops is a hassle...but to ship these everywhere leaving it to "buyer beware" regarding street registration in most states is quite undesirable. If RPS would get this straightened out, they'd sell even tons more than they do now.

As Adam quoted: "Note that the Magician (like the Hawk) is not a DOT motorcycle and on-road registration is dependent upon your local DMV. There is a long-term plan to make both bikes DOT compliant, but there is a lot of bureaucracy involved with that."

This needs to be fixed. To me, it's the only real problem, even if they never do become available here in CA. 49 other states will be quite happy.

[Adam Rinkleff]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

to ship these everywhere leaving it to "buyer beware" regarding street registration in most states is quite undesirable.

We don't actually sell to users. We sell to dealers, inform them of its status, and the dealers assure us that they know where they can and can't sell it. New customers who want it on-road need to ask the dealer if they can register it.

Some dealers are better than others. Some sell into states where they do not have an active license, which doesn't help. If your dealer doesn't guarantee registration, you should be wary. If a dealer says that they can get it on-road in any state, they are lying.

That said, there is a long-term plan to get DOT compliance, but it will require retooling at the factory. Since China would be spending funds solely for the US market, they won't do it unless they are convinced there is sufficient demand. Right now, the Hawk is doing well, so they are gradually improving it.

You do get what you pay for. The Hawk is relatively cheap, but it's not a bonafide motorcycle. We could easily fix the carb issue for California, but that would also increase the cost of the bike. Fortunately, we are going to be importing Lifan Motorcycles, and those will be better (and more expensive).

[Adam Rinkleff]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

Another problem is in the quality of the fluids used on the bike. I would change the engine/transmission oil before I even started it for the first time

Yes, we recommend flushing the fluids. They are not intended for use, the fluids are in there to keep components from rusting/etc as it takes months to ship them across the Pacific.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Adam Rinkleff

You do get what you pay for. The Hawk is relatively cheap, but it's not a bonafide motorcycle. We could easily fix the carb issue for California, but that would also increase the cost of the bike. Fortunately, we are going to be importing Lifan Motorcycles, and those will be better (and more expensive).

Thanks for the response Adam. Being a CA native, I don't blame those who don't want to play the CARB game ($$$). It's strict and that's why there are only two available CB's here. The CSC TT250 and the SSR XF250. It's just the way it is and we're used to it.

It's the rest of the states that really should be dealt with though. CA is a HUGE market...but so are 49 others. I'm not sure what retooling may need to occur. Most other states don't require the smog pump and purge can to be road legal, as they do here in CA.

It will be interesting to watch and see how this unfolds. Keep us in the loop on any new news, please.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Bruce's

What have you done to the head pipe on yours Ariel ?did you find something that works off the shelf or build your own ?

I haven't bought a Hawk. I am getting close to 80 years old. I'm not sure a motorcycle is a good idea at my age. What I type up here is a production engineers view of them. I hunt for information on stuff, then analyze it. You are reading the results of my studies. And the results of my experience. I've been riding since 1951. But I will tell you this; if I was going to buy a motorcycle this year, it would be a HAWK!!

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Adam Rinkleff

Yes, we recommend flushing the fluids. They are not intended for use, the fluids are in there to keep components from rusting/etc as it takes months to ship them across the Pacific.

Adam, I'm glad you brought that up. It is a long way from here to China. People, think about all of those enviornmental heating and cooling cycles these bikes go through before they even get to our shores. Everyone of those cycles can cause condensation. In other words, the oil, grease and brake fluid has contamination in them long before they get here. Protect your investment by changing all of the fluids and grease as part of the assembly process. You'll end up a lot happier.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by pete

The push rods are light but still have mass that is traveling in a
linar motion and has to be stoped then returned in the oppisite direction..
A over head cam shaft dose have a lot more mass but is dynamic & dose not require
stoping to change direction like push rods..


..

What you say is true. And on a street engine it is important. And of course, racing engines. As to the advantages of an overhead cam engine for a dual-sport/enduro, my experience is that they are over rated. What is needed is low-mid range grunt, which is easy to get with overhead valves. It would be just as easy to get with an overhead cam engine, if it was designed to the same protocal. But they are not. They are designed to take advantage of their lighter valve gear at high rpms. And their power curve reflects this. I used to be involved in road racing, after my time playing with 500 Goldstars on American flat tracks. The AMA changed the rules (from 500 overheads vs 750 flatheads to 750 overheads),so I lost interest. I was a great believer in the advantages of overhead cam engines, so I bought a 250 Ducati. Did fairly well for a while until I got my plow cleaned by Moto Parilla's and Aermacci Harley Davidsons. Both of those 250's were pushrod OHV engines. The real advantage of overhead cam engines comes at 350cc and bigger, for road racing.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Part two was supposed to be chassis run through, but not so. Your poor scribe has been called out to defend the humble, but useful, pushrod OHV 229.9 cc HonChi engine. This engine has been compared to OHC engines, and crankshaft balance shaft engines. And it has been found wanting. So let's look more closely at this engines plusses and minuses. It has plenty of both. At least from my point of view. Plusses: air-cooled. Simple. Light in weight. Less expensive to produce. Unit construction (engine and gearbox in one set of cases). Because it is a pushrod engine, more weight is low, in the cases. It has some kind of gee whizz electronic ignition. It is relatively light in weight. It is relatively easy to do valve adjustments on. It responds very well to exhaust and carburetor upgrades. Minuses: It doesn't have a balancer shaft. It doesn't have an overhead cam. It only holds about 35 ounces of lube oil. Lube oil also used for transmission. So this engine is almost perfectly suited for an inexpensive off road dual sport at the low end of the price spectrum. It is much less qualified to be an engine in a bike that is primarily used on pavement. It does not have the top end for that job. I'm sure it can be modified for more top end, but if you do that you will lose out on the bottom end and midrange. The Magician and the TT250 are better suited for on highway use. I don't like the Magician because it has a 16" rear wheel. I don't like the TT250 because it costs a lot more than the Magician, or Hawk. The Magician and Hawk are the bottom feeders in the 250 class. The Magician is a nice 90% 10% on-road off-road bike. The Hawk is a very nice off-road bike that is street legal, at least in many states. Perfect for riding 10-20 miles to the dirt trails you want to ride all day. If you stay off the interstates with it. Bottom line: you can have a lot of fun on a Hawk for short money.

[Darkrider]

Should add...can have a lot of fun with the Hawk if you can get it where you live lol