Decided to upgrade my Orion Apollo 250 with a Honda XR250R engine

Chineeske · 01-26-2019, 10:47 AM

I have thought about this well, about the pro's and cons but I just can't sell my Orion... I really do like the looks of it, and despite it's Chinese made (so it can have some major upgrades here and there) it is a brand new bike...

Thing is, is that I don't like the engine (as in no power) in the dirt.

So I have decided to upgrade my Apollo with a Honda 250XR engine which happens to lay around in my shed.

This afternoon I made a small start with it:

The airbox is a pain to remove... it will only leave it's place when the subframe is unbolted

Removed the wire harness and subframe

20 minutes later and you have some extra rubbish laying around in the shed

Although I was quite happy about the build quality of the Apollo when I bought it, I have found some small issues here and there...

And that is the quality of the paint of the frame, subframe and suspension...
Some tiny rubbing already causing this:

Hose rubbing

Some rust at the swingarm, where the mudflap sits

Where the side plastic is bolted to the tank, also some rubbing marks

Also the subframe isn't painted by a high quality painter, as it seems he/she missed some spots causing some rust

Guess I will repaint it, I'll see that later on

But besides the paint, the frame itself needs some work too to handle this lovely engine:

On the outside the frame looks beefy right?

But see what's inside this "beefy" looking frame...

Jep... much air here... or hollow spaces if you would like to call it that way...

So the Apollo needs some frame strenghtening here and there, I'll do that by welding some steel plates in and some bracing.

To be continued....

Megadan · 01-26-2019, 11:16 AM

I am looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

PaiN · 01-26-2019, 11:22 AM

What a cool project....I'll definitely be watching how it comes together.
From the looks of your shop, seems like you have the tools and know-how to make this happen.

Landsvw · 01-26-2019, 11:25 AM

That bike has a nicely designed frame from what I can see. Is it a steel welded copy of a Japanese aluminum frame?

Can’t wait to see how it turns out myself!

Landsvw · 01-26-2019, 11:27 AM

Something like this one maybe?

https://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/m...798129996.html

Chineeske · 01-26-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaiN

What a cool project....I'll definitely be watching how it comes together.
From the looks of your shop, seems like you have the tools and know-how to make this happen.

Thanks!

I do have some nice tools but I am just a amateur mechanic

In daily live I am just a sales manager in the food business who loves to work with his hands.

But this little project will work out just fine, I have dealt with bigger and more complicated motorcycle projects in the past

For example this little bike:

An old Honda Transalp 600

A couple of weeks later, a bit more modern looking and the engine got a complete engine overhaul. Same bike, just a bit different.

I just like playing around with metal

Edit; the Transalp frame has been modified to accomodate the AT swingarm with the Ohlins shock. Also the frame itself has been modified and welded to place to CRF rear fender. The frontforks are from a XR.

Chineeske · 01-26-2019, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landsvw

That bike has a nicely designed frame from what I can see. Is it a steel welded copy of a Japanese aluminum frame?

Can’t wait to see how it turns out myself!

Thanks!

It's steel for sure, but it's pressed metal. I do like the lines of the frame!

Chineeske · 01-26-2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landsvw

Something like this one maybe?

https://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/m...798129996.html

Nearly... as the center frame bars are not so steep on the Orion but sure it's close!

Landsvw · 01-26-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chineeske

Thanks!

Edit; the Transalp frame has been modified to accomodate the AT swingarm with the Ohlins shock. Also the frame itself has been modified and welded to place to CRF rear fender. The frontforks are from a XR.

Man oh man, a v-twin dual sport Honda. There’s no ‘heart’ icon!

I do a lot of fabricating and goofing around that way too, but nothing as clean as that bike. Thanks for sharing!

Chineeske · 01-26-2019, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landsvw

Man oh man, a v-twin dual sport Honda. There’s no ‘heart’ icon!

I do a lot of fabricating and goofing around that way too, but nothing as clean as that bike. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you for your kind compliment!

DualSport · 01-26-2019, 01:41 PM

One of the nicest China frames I've seen. I had an Apollo once but it was tubular taiwanese steel like the RPS..

I'm in the process of putting XR 650L controls and throttle on my Magician and am looking for a Honda CDI and coil replacement too..

Chineeske · 01-29-2019, 01:38 PM

Done a more

I thought that putting a XR engine into the Orion would be a piece of cake...
But the truth is, is that the frame needs some serious welding and custom fabrication

First fitting

None of the holes match...

So decided to start cutting here and there

Almost there

Chain seems straight...

But no worries, as it's certainly not a straight fit...

I had used to lower engine mounting points as reference... But wrong guess, as it's certainly not welded straight in the Chinese factory...

So... it will be serious grinding and welding!

Megadan · 01-29-2019, 03:52 PM

Let me start off by saying that you are taking some amazing pictures showing the detail of your fitment issues.

I am not surprised that most of the mount points are not going to work. The XR engine is slightly different in the mount locations than the CG engine family. That said, it does at least fit within the frame for the most part. In the realms of fabrication, making some new brackets aren't all that bad.

Chineeske · 01-29-2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

Let me start off by saying that you are taking some amazing pictures showing the detail of your fitment issues.

I am not surprised that most of the mount points are not going to work. The XR engine is slightly different in the mount locations than the CG engine family. That said, it does at least fit within the frame for the most part. In the realms of fabrication, making some new brackets aren't all that bad.

Dan, that's correct, it fits into the frame and that was the biggest challenge

roundhouse · 01-29-2019, 08:25 PM

What a great thread. I am smiling looking at all the pics. then I frown because i have the mechanical skills of a purple headed sea slug..........THEY DON'T HAVE HANDS!

01-26-2019, 10:47 AM	#1
Chineeske Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 29	Decided to upgrade my Orion Apollo 250 with a Honda XR250R engine I have thought about this well, about the pro's and cons but I just can't sell my Orion... I really do like the looks of it, and despite it's Chinese made (so it can have some major upgrades here and there) it is a brand new bike... Thing is, is that I don't like the engine (as in no power) in the dirt. So I have decided to upgrade my Apollo with a Honda 250XR engine which happens to lay around in my shed. This afternoon I made a small start with it: The airbox is a pain to remove... it will only leave it's place when the subframe is unbolted Removed the wire harness and subframe 20 minutes later and you have some extra rubbish laying around in the shed Although I was quite happy about the build quality of the Apollo when I bought it, I have found some small issues here and there... And that is the quality of the paint of the frame, subframe and suspension... Some tiny rubbing already causing this: Hose rubbing Some rust at the swingarm, where the mudflap sits Where the side plastic is bolted to the tank, also some rubbing marks Also the subframe isn't painted by a high quality painter, as it seems he/she missed some spots causing some rust Guess I will repaint it, I'll see that later on But besides the paint, the frame itself needs some work too to handle this lovely engine: On the outside the frame looks beefy right? But see what's inside this "beefy" looking frame... Jep... much air here... or hollow spaces if you would like to call it that way... So the Apollo needs some frame strenghtening here and there, I'll do that by welding some steel plates in and some bracing. To be continued....
	5

01-26-2019, 11:16 AM	#2
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,992	I am looking forward to seeing how this progresses. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	2

01-26-2019, 11:22 AM	#3
PaiN Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: CT Posts: 130	What a cool project....I'll definitely be watching how it comes together. From the looks of your shop, seems like you have the tools and know-how to make this happen. __________________ "Talking about living life is nice and all....but a motorcycle is a tool to actually do it." -me You Tube: PaiN's Rides Currently riding the hell out of my 2013 Victory Cross Country.
	0

01-26-2019, 11:25 AM	#4
Landsvw Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Myrtle Creek Oregon Posts: 869	That bike has a nicely designed frame from what I can see. Is it a steel welded copy of a Japanese aluminum frame? Can’t wait to see how it turns out myself! __________________ 1988 Kawasaki KLR250 1969 Honda Z50 silver tag 2002 Ford F-350 7.3 diesel 2002 Porsche Boxster S 2017 Chevy Bolt “Throttle twisting geek” -LFN
	0

01-26-2019, 11:27 AM	#5
Landsvw Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Myrtle Creek Oregon Posts: 869	Something like this one maybe? https://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/m...798129996.html __________________ 1988 Kawasaki KLR250 1969 Honda Z50 silver tag 2002 Ford F-350 7.3 diesel 2002 Porsche Boxster S 2017 Chevy Bolt “Throttle twisting geek” -LFN
	0

01-26-2019, 01:41 PM	#11
DualSport Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 173	One of the nicest China frames I've seen. I had an Apollo once but it was tubular taiwanese steel like the RPS.. I'm in the process of putting XR 650L controls and throttle on my Magician and am looking for a Honda CDI and coil replacement too..
	0

01-29-2019, 01:38 PM	#12
Chineeske Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 29	Done a more I thought that putting a XR engine into the Orion would be a piece of cake... But the truth is, is that the frame needs some serious welding and custom fabrication First fitting None of the holes match... So decided to start cutting here and there Almost there Chain seems straight... But no worries, as it's certainly not a straight fit... I had used to lower engine mounting points as reference... But wrong guess, as it's certainly not welded straight in the Chinese factory... So... it will be serious grinding and welding!
	3

01-29-2019, 03:52 PM	#13
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,992	Let me start off by saying that you are taking some amazing pictures showing the detail of your fitment issues. I am not surprised that most of the mount points are not going to work. The XR engine is slightly different in the mount locations than the CG engine family. That said, it does at least fit within the frame for the most part. In the realms of fabrication, making some new brackets aren't all that bad. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	2

01-29-2019, 08:25 PM	#15
roundhouse Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: N Texas Posts: 706	What a great thread. I am smiling looking at all the pics. then I frown because i have the mechanical skills of a purple headed sea slug..........THEY DON'T HAVE HANDS!
	2