Zongshen RX3: Lithium and Other Aftermarket Batteries

[keithmaine]

Battery / After market battery

I believe the stock to be:

Guyue YTZ12S-B (YTZ series battery for motorcycle, 12V 11Ah, 150*87*110mm)

Yuasa specs
Battery Family: Maintenance Free
Battery Type: YTX20-BS
Voltage: 12
Capacity: 18
Dimensions: 6.875" x 3.4375" x 6.125"
Weight: 11.2lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 175mm x 87mm x 155mm
MetricWeight: 5.1kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: 0.93
Amps: 1.8
C.C.A.: 270

Other #'s:
GTX12-BS , ETX12 , ES12BS

Cross Ref. link below
http://www.gsbattery.com/PDFs/Batter...ce%20Chart.pdf

AGM, Lithium, etc. if anyone has experience with after market batteries?

It looks like
Shorai Lithium LFX12A1-BS12 would be a fit and a savings of 10lbs.

[detours]

I put a Shorai lithium iron battery in mine. It works great and is very light. It's smaller than a stock lead acid battery, but it comes with foam pads to fit the battery box.

LFX14A1-BS12 ... 210 CCA, 14Ah, 1.83 lbs

The LFX12A1-BS12 would be even lighter and would work fine.

[keithmaine]

Originally Posted by detours

I put a Shorai lithium iron battery in mine. It works great and is very light. It's smaller than a stock lead acid battery, but it comes with foam pads to fit the battery box.

LFX14A1-BS12 ... 210 CCA, 14Ah, 1.83 lbs

The LFX12A1-BS12 would be even lighter and would work fine.

.36lbs. lighter really not much

Nice to know, you are happy the Shorai, is there a reason you stepped up a size (CCA)? I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I suppose the little bump might help with accessories and price diff. is minimal I would most likely do the same

I realize CCA listing on the LFX14 is equal to the stock battery in rating but = to 315 CCA lead acid, as CCA does not mean the same as on lead batteries. According to Shorai the 12 series would be closer to a 225 CCA lead battery or about what the stock battery puts out.

For all interested from
Shorai website

Q. How does the LFX "CCA" cold-cranking rating compare to lead-acid Ahr ratings?

A. CCA ratings another way that lead-acid makers have tried to convey starting power. Unfortunately, their typical spec is based on a "half-nominal-voltage" delivery. That is, at their CCA spec, you can expect 7.2V delivered, at best; and 7.2V isn't useful, as you won't start a vehicle with it...

In any case, CCA ratings aren't about actually drawing that much current from a battery. The typical vehicle which uses a 200A CCA-rated battery, for example, will only draw 45A~80A from the battery. What the CCA rating really intends to convey is how much voltage will be delivered. Higher CCA rated batteries will deliver more voltage at the same actual cranking current. Our LFX are CCA rated to deliver 9V for a 5-second crank at the CCA rated current. (in fact, our average voltage delivered will be even higher during a 30-second crank. But our CCA ratings are intended to indicate not only a measure of voltage at true cranking currents, but also proper usage, which lead-acid do not) At actual cranking currents - which are always well below CCA, LFX deliver up to two volts more than an equivalent-CCA-rated lead acid battery. Current alone won't start anything. It is the current multiplied by voltage that does the work (watts). In reality, this means that you can multiply the LFX CCA rating by 1.5x to compare to a Lead Acid battery CCA. For example, our 270A CCA LFX18 series provides about the same cranking voltage as a 405A-CCA-rated lead acid battery (from a quality lead-acid maker; some CCA specs we've tested on the cheapest lead acid seemed to be plucked from thin air).

[detours]

Actually, I had bought the LFX14A1-BS12 for my Vstrom 650, but I figured the RX3 would benefit more from the lighter battery. My stock RX3 battery is sitting unused on a battery tender.

For anyone buying specifically for the RX3, I would recommend the LFX12A1-BS12 for the weight savings, unless you really want the extra amp-hours.

[keithmaine]

Originally Posted by detours

Actually, I had bought the LFX14A1-BS12 for my Vstrom 650, but I figured the RX3 would benefit more from the lighter battery. My stock RX3 battery is sitting unused on a battery tender.

For anyone buying specifically for the RX3, I would recommend the LFX12A1-BS12 for the weight savings, unless you really want the extra amp-hours.

for that info detours

it is always good to hear from those who have already been there

[Danimal]

I have been touring on my main bike (2003 SV650 with over 200,000 miles on it) and have found that the Lithium Iron -based batteries do not hold up well to any type of farkling regiment.
Don't care how well your charging circuit works. Don't care what the capacity is.
If you have farkles running that are constantly telling your R/R to do shit, the Lithium batteries slowly lose these capacity. Have seen it happen with several now.
That has been my experience.
BTW, the Roxers charging system is superior to that of my SV650.

[keithmaine]

Originally Posted by Danimal

I have been touring on my main bike (2003 SV650 with over 200,000 miles on it) and have found that the Lithium Iron -based batteries do not hold up well to any type of farkling regiment.
Don't care how well your charging circuit works. Don't care what the capacity is.
If you have farkles running that are constantly telling your R/R to do shit, the Lithium batteries slowly lose these capacity. Have seen it happen with several now.
That has been my experience.
BTW, the Roxers charging system is superior to that of my SV650.

That is interesting why do you believe it is? maybe charging system cannot maintain high enough voltage?

[Danimal]

Originally Posted by keithmaine

That is interesting why do you believe it is? maybe charging system cannot maintain high enough voltage?

I'm sure it's because of the Lithium Iron chemistry.
In fact Shorai used to state on their website that their battery didn't handle accessories drain well.

[keithmaine]

Originally Posted by Danimal

I'm sure it's because of the Lithium Iron chemistry.
In fact Shorai used to state on their website that their battery didn't handle accessories drain well.

Let us hope technology gives us both lightweight and long life

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Danimal

I have been touring on my main bike (2003 SV650 with over 200,000 miles on it) and have found that the Lithium Iron -based batteries do not hold up well to any type of farkling regiment.
Don't care how well your charging circuit works. Don't care what the capacity is.
If you have farkles running that are constantly telling your R/R to do shit, the Lithium batteries slowly lose these capacity. Have seen it happen with several now.
That has been my experience.
BTW, the Roxers charging system is superior to that of my SV650.

Originally Posted by keithmaine

That is interesting why do you believe it is? maybe charging system cannot maintain high enough voltage?

I believe Dan. The lithium/iron/phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries don't like motorcycles with fancy electronics which introduce parasitic electrical drain. The LiFePO4 batteries also dislike electrical accessories which drain their capacity. Althought the LiFePO4 batteries have great cranking power, they don't have the storage capacity of traditional lead/acid batteries. Therefore, when a LiFePO4 battery must support fancy electronics and numerous electrical accessories, it is drained farther into its more modest capacity. This drainage multiplies the number of recharge cycles for the battery, and shortens its life. You can read more regarding this topic at a very long, and very technical thread, posted at the following link.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...ifepo4.757934/

LiFePO4 batteries work great on bikes with no parasitic electrical drain, and few, if any, electrical accessories, such as my Honda XR650L. I have been running a Shorai LFX09A2-BS12 battery in that bike for about 5 years, and over 40,000 miles, without any problems whatsoever. However, the XR650L is a dirt bike, and an electronic dinosaur, without any electrical parasitic drains.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...cation.666195/



If you do choose a LiFePO4 battery for your RX3, or a similar equipped bike, you should choose one with the highest storage capacity which will fit into the battery tray. Even then, the LiFePO4 battery probably won't last as long as a traditional, lead/acid battery.

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

I have been running a Shorai LFX9A212 battery in that bike for about 4 years, and 40,000 miles, without any problems whatsoever. However, the XR650L is a dirt bike, and an electronic dinosaur, without any electrical parasitic drains.

I have a Shorai in my dinosaur as well, TW 200.

Mine sits idle for 6 months of the year, which may be harder on a battery than regular use.

This coming season it will start it's 6th year.



jb

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Danimal

I'm sure it's because of the Lithium Iron chemistry.
In fact Shorai used to state on their website that their battery didn't handle accessories drain well.

Originally Posted by keithmaine

Let us hope technology gives us both lightweight and long life

Once again, Dan is correct. The LiFePO4 chemistry produces a lot of cranking power, but the manufacturers label them with fictitious, highly inflated storage capacities. The LiFePO4 batteries are small, and they crank very hard. However, their small size also reflects a much smaller storage capacity, which can't sustain large power drains. Also, the LiFePO4 batteries have a limited number of recharge cycles. If you repeatedly drain them deeply, they will die much sooner than a lead/acid battery.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by jbfla

I have a Shorai in my dinosaur as well, TW 200.

Mine sits idle for 6 months of the year, which may be harder on a battery than regular use.

This coming season it will start it's 6th year.



jb

Actually, as long as the bike is an electronic dinosaur, without any parasitic electrical drains, and few electrical accessories, the LiFePO4 batteries will actually outlast a traditional, lead/acid battery. The LiFePO4 batteries store a charge very well, for a very long time, if they aren't being constantly drained. LiFePO4 batteries also survive very well in the cold. In fact, Shorai recommends you place their batteries in the refrigerator for long term storage.

However, modern bikes with EFI, digital dashboards, and many electrical accessories can quickly drain the limited capacity of LiFePO4 batteries. If anyone is interested in learning more on this topic, I highly recommend he read the following, very technical thread at the following link.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...ifepo4.757934/

[keithmaine]

Has the technology not gotten better like with the lithium power tools that drain to discharge and then are recharged? Maybe not yet on vehicle type batteries.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by keithmaine

Has the technology not gotten better like with the lithium power tools that drain to discharge and then are recharged? Maybe not yet on vehicle type batteries.

First of all, cordless batteries for power tools employ a different battery chemistry than motorcycle batteries. Motorcycle and car batteries are lithium/iron/phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. Lithium batteries for RC vehicles and power tools are lithium polymer (LiPo) batteries, which usually employ a lithium/cobalt, or similar chemistry.

Because of their volatility and charging requirments, LiPo batteries are unsuited for the charging systems employed by automobiles and motorcycles, which are designed to maintain lead/acid batteries. The chemistry of LiFePO4 batteries is well suited to car and motorcycle charging systems, and the LiFePO4 batteries much more resistant to thermal runaway, which causes LiPo batteries to burst into flame.

All LiPo batteries in cordless tools have built-in, voltage protection circuits which limit overcharging, and deep discharging. Overcharging can cause LiPo batteries to ignite, and deep discharging will quickly destroy LiPo batteries.

If you get a large enough LiFePO4 battery for your motorcycle, it will be able to sustain power drains much better. Generally, this means you should buy the largest LiFePO4 battery which will fit in your battery tray. If you drain large amounts of current from a small LiFePO4 battery, it can suffer damage by recharging the large voltage loss too rapidly. Once again, everything you ever wanted to know about lithium batteries is probably included in the 99-page, technical thread which is located at the following link.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...ifepo4.757934/