kind of curious

ridgerunner · 06-29-2007, 11:50 PM

Been doing a lot of reading on here about how much the motorcycles vibrtate and loose bolts if you're not careful. I was just wondering if scooters have the same problems that the motorcycles do. Or do you think the scooters are put together better than the motorcycles? I'm pondering a 150 cc for a 20 mile commute.

ACD · 06-30-2007, 12:45 AM

Ridgerunner that's a loaded question to say the least! As to the build quality of the Chinese scooters, even the big three Jap manufacturers have issues at times. Common problems on the Chinese scoots are body panel fasteners falling out, mirrors that won't stay put, exhaust header bolts that vibrate off, and more than one report of the rear axel nut coming off. The vaccumn and Fuel lines are occasionally suspect, the vaccumn fuel shut off continues to be a source of frustration on the cheapest of scoots, and electricals can be a PIA! The latest crop of scooters out of China are a huge improvement.

All that said there are better and worse scoots. I wrote this for my forums new members... hope you have some time...LOL

OK I decided to put together this post to help those new to scootering. It is also to save me a lot of typing... LOL! First no matter what scooter you are considering, even the 50 cc scooters, I highly recommend taking a Motorcycle Safety Course! Even if you do not intend to get your motorcycle license the tips that you learn can save your life!!!

What size?

Scooters generally fall into 3 classes based on engine displacement. Usually 50 cc, 150 cc, and 250 cc and larger.

50 cc

50 cc scooters make great little errand runners and local commuters. In many states you do not need a motorcycle endorsement to operate a scooter under 50 cc. Most 50 cc scooters are restricted to 30 mph or less ( there are several that can go 45+ though...Yeah Ha!). They can be either 4-stroke engines or 2- stroke. With a 2-stroke the engine is lubricated by mixing oil with the gas. Most new scooters do this automatically but some you must add oil when filling with gas. They are a bit noisier than 4-strokes and they pollute a bit more (smoky exhaust, not bad, but some!). The advantage to 2-stroke engines is they tend to develop more power than a 4-stroke of the same displacement (engine size). 2- Stroke engines are easier and cheaper to "soup-up" than a 4-stoke if that aspect of scootering appeals to you.

4- stroke engines work like your car. You just add gas and go. It is lubricated by oil in a sump in the bottom of the engine. They are very quiet and have very low emissions. You can make them go faster than stock but it will cost you more and the gains are not as impressive per $ spent as you can get from a 2-stroke.

Unmodified 50 cc scooters are best suited for 25 mph (in town) roads. Any incline will drop your speed significantly and cause you to be a hindrance to traffic. In a fight between a car and a scooter the car will always win. With road rage on the rise it's best not to be the source of a fellow motorists displeasure. Use the SUV for that. 50 cc scoots can achieve mileage figures of nearly 100 mpg sometimes even better. The little scoots are the cheapest to acquire and operate but if you buy less scooter than you really need in the end it will cost you more.

50 cc scooters are available in many different styles from race ready machines (no kidding) to the cutest little Retro models. Some scooters can carry one person and some are rugged enough to carry two. Check your manufacturers weight allowances.

150 cc

150 cc scooters are by far the most common scooter size. They are all 4-stroke and most Chinese models use variants of the GY6 engine which is air-cooled. Some 150cc scooters are liquid cooled and tend to be a bit faster. An example would be the Qlink Pegasus. Most 150 cc scooters are good for speeds of 50-60 mph depending on the rider's weight and terrain. If you are to be traveling on roads up to a 50 mph speed limit this is a good choice. On faster roads the slightest incline will cause you to become an impedance to traffic flow and cause trouble. They come in a variety of styles from sport bike looking models to retro styles like the classic Vespa. Most are good for at least 330 pounds carrying capacity and can take a passenger. Keep in mind the extra weight will cause a decrease in power and acceleration so plan your route accordingly. 150 cc scoots usually obtain between 70-80 mpg and are priced only slightly higher than 50 cc scoots. You will need a motorcycle endorsement to operate any scooter larger than 50 cc!!

250 cc and up.

These scooters are the big Dawgs. They come all the way from 200 cc to 650 cc. If you need to go on the highway or routinely travel roads of 55 mph this is the machine for you. All are 4-stroke and most 250 machines can obtain speeds of at least 70 mph. The 650 class machines like the Suzuki Burgman or Honda Silverwing can attain speeds in excess of 100mph!! These scooters are the most expensive to own and operate. Fuel economy ranges from 50 mpg and up. Insurance will be higher than the smaller bikes. Do to the high price, financing is more likely on bikes of this class and full coverage will be mandated by most finance companies. If you ride long distances, carry a passenger a lot, or your commute requires any highway riding you will need a machine of this size.

Where to buy?

There are basically two sources for your new scooter. Internet sales and a conventional Brick and Mortar Dealer. ScootDawg highly recommends buying from a reputable dealer in your local area. This will save you a multitude of headaches and give a source for help if something goes amiss. You will pay more for a scooter from a dealer but the added expense is well worth it. Save a month or two longer if you have too and buy local... if not you'll usually wish you had.

If you do not have a local dealer then you are stuck with the Internet. Pay attention to this part!! If you buy from the INTERNET YOU are responsible for assembling the scooter, performing the pre-delivery inspection, and sorting out the many quirks it will have for the first few hundred miles. If you are not handy with a wrench, don't have the desire or time to repair things then do not buy on line. Even the best dealers ( and we know of many good on line sellers) can only tell you how to fix a problem and send parts. They can not repair the scooter over the phone. Know your own abilities before you commit to buying a scooter off the Internet. On line scooters can be a great deal but only if you have reasonable expectations and can do the needed repairs yourself. Sorry to sound redundant but all to many people buy the cheaper scooter and then fill the message boards with such and such scooter is a total piece of crap... don't buy a scooter from this company or that company and so on. Buyer beware, Caveat Emptor and all that. If you are in doubt at all make the long drive and buy from a dealer! The scooter will be prepped, running, and you can take it back for repairs if needed.

What to buy?

As with anything you get what you pay for. I'll try to group the scooters in "tiers" of price and quality so you know where the one that interests you falls.

Top Tier:

Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Vespa, Italjet, Aprilia, Piaggio ect.
These are big dollar high class machines. Very reliable and extremely well made.

2nd Tier:
Kymco, Daelim, SYM, Genuine, etc.

These are slightly lower priced than the Japanese and Italian machines. They are very reliable and well built as well. Probably the best bang for the buck comes from this class. (I am going to take some real heat for that statement)

3rd Tier:
Names like Q-Link, TGB, TNG, Diamo, Adly, Argo, Derbi, E-ton, Schwinn, CPI etc.
These scooters sell through dealers only no on line sales. They are good machines and will give you great service. Less $$ than the Tier above to acquire, the fit and finish will not be quite as good but still very good. Well supported and decent warranties.

4th Tier:
Bandit Scooters, Baron Scooters, Vento and Strada (especially those manufactured by QJ), Fly-Scooters, Motofino , Hyosung, and Zhongshen
Internet and/or dealer only sold bikes with a decent reputation. Expect some problems but nothing serious. The importers have a good record of parts support and honoring their warranty.

Last Tier:
Names like Tank, Roketa, SunL, Verruci, Big Chief, Viva, Primo, JM-Star, and more. These are the scooters you commonly see on Ebay. They can be great machines, but in general we see more complaints about them than the others. They are however the least expensive and if you are a mechanically oriented person they can be an excellent value. Not the best choice for the total newbie who lacks mechanical skills. If this is the best you can afford (No shame in that) buy one from a local dealer that will prep it and keep it going for you. Usually with this class scooter it will only cost a few hundred more to buy local than online... and you can ride it immediately with no assembly! Another disadvantage to Internet scooters is legality and the paperwork. If you buy from a licensed dealer in your state you will have no trouble from the DMV. If you buy from an on line dealer the DMV can make you jump through hoops to register your new toy! One more thing, most on line dealers do not ship your papers (Bill of Sale and Manufacturers Certificate of Origin) with the scooter and there are stories of folks waiting weeks to get them!!

This will be a living post and I will change it as needed. It will be a locked topic because I do not want to get away from it's intended purpose. You can Private Message me (ACD) if there are any additions or corrections that need to be made. We have long established that I am an idiot.....LOL

I hope this helps someone!

Aaron

END OF ARTICLE

Lot's of info to wade through and cogitate on I know. Think on that and ask more questions. Happy to help.

This link will take you to the most recent review I did and let you have an idea of what a scooter can be like from delivery to return.

http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/ind...ead=1178850726

Aaron

DennisD · 06-30-2007, 02:15 PM

Funny you should ask that right at this time. Here is a recent post from someone who got a new scooter over the internet a few weeks ago and now has what sounds like a big problem with things coming loose.
http://letsgoscootin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132

On the other hand, I've put almost 3000 km now on my my 150 and have had a problem with the back wheel nut beginning to come loose(twice) until I drove it on with an air impact wrench. Also I've had the air intake hose fall off the air cleaner housing once because of a bad clamp, and had the carb begin working loose out of the intake manifold once. I checked things routinely and frequently at first, and also have found a few body panel screws coming loose now and then, and at the very first, found a number of loose electical connections... that just weren't pushed together tightly enough in the first place. That's been about the extent of it. Pretty normal, I'd say. I don't check things over as thoroughly or frequently now as I did at first, but when I read posts like the one I linked to, it reminds me to go out and check stuff over again. I do make routine checks on suspension components, brake calipers, and the exhaust system, but other than the back axle nut, haven't had problems with any of that stuff coming loose.

freekshow · 07-17-2007, 04:13 PM

had a 04 yamaha zuma very nice machine but the battery would not stay charged if i did it again i would buy chinese for half the money and prep it right zuma would top out at 40mph and i weigh 250

ridgerunner · 09-04-2007, 04:51 PM

Where would American Lifan fit into the mix?

06-29-2007, 11:50 PM	#1
ridgerunner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fairbury, IL Posts: 63	kind of curious Been doing a lot of reading on here about how much the motorcycles vibrtate and loose bolts if you're not careful. I was just wondering if scooters have the same problems that the motorcycles do. Or do you think the scooters are put together better than the motorcycles? I'm pondering a 150 cc for a 20 mile commute.
	0

06-30-2007, 12:45 AM	#2
ACD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rockland, Maine Posts: 297	Ridgerunner that's a loaded question to say the least! As to the build quality of the Chinese scooters, even the big three Jap manufacturers have issues at times. Common problems on the Chinese scoots are body panel fasteners falling out, mirrors that won't stay put, exhaust header bolts that vibrate off, and more than one report of the rear axel nut coming off. The vaccumn and Fuel lines are occasionally suspect, the vaccumn fuel shut off continues to be a source of frustration on the cheapest of scoots, and electricals can be a PIA! The latest crop of scooters out of China are a huge improvement. All that said there are better and worse scoots. I wrote this for my forums new members... hope you have some time...LOL OK I decided to put together this post to help those new to scootering. It is also to save me a lot of typing... LOL! First no matter what scooter you are considering, even the 50 cc scooters, I highly recommend taking a Motorcycle Safety Course! Even if you do not intend to get your motorcycle license the tips that you learn can save your life!!! What size? Scooters generally fall into 3 classes based on engine displacement. Usually 50 cc, 150 cc, and 250 cc and larger. 50 cc 50 cc scooters make great little errand runners and local commuters. In many states you do not need a motorcycle endorsement to operate a scooter under 50 cc. Most 50 cc scooters are restricted to 30 mph or less ( there are several that can go 45+ though...Yeah Ha!). They can be either 4-stroke engines or 2- stroke. With a 2-stroke the engine is lubricated by mixing oil with the gas. Most new scooters do this automatically but some you must add oil when filling with gas. They are a bit noisier than 4-strokes and they pollute a bit more (smoky exhaust, not bad, but some!). The advantage to 2-stroke engines is they tend to develop more power than a 4-stroke of the same displacement (engine size). 2- Stroke engines are easier and cheaper to "soup-up" than a 4-stoke if that aspect of scootering appeals to you. 4- stroke engines work like your car. You just add gas and go. It is lubricated by oil in a sump in the bottom of the engine. They are very quiet and have very low emissions. You can make them go faster than stock but it will cost you more and the gains are not as impressive per $ spent as you can get from a 2-stroke. Unmodified 50 cc scooters are best suited for 25 mph (in town) roads. Any incline will drop your speed significantly and cause you to be a hindrance to traffic. In a fight between a car and a scooter the car will always win. With road rage on the rise it's best not to be the source of a fellow motorists displeasure. Use the SUV for that. 50 cc scoots can achieve mileage figures of nearly 100 mpg sometimes even better. The little scoots are the cheapest to acquire and operate but if you buy less scooter than you really need in the end it will cost you more. 50 cc scooters are available in many different styles from race ready machines (no kidding) to the cutest little Retro models. Some scooters can carry one person and some are rugged enough to carry two. Check your manufacturers weight allowances. 150 cc 150 cc scooters are by far the most common scooter size. They are all 4-stroke and most Chinese models use variants of the GY6 engine which is air-cooled. Some 150cc scooters are liquid cooled and tend to be a bit faster. An example would be the Qlink Pegasus. Most 150 cc scooters are good for speeds of 50-60 mph depending on the rider's weight and terrain. If you are to be traveling on roads up to a 50 mph speed limit this is a good choice. On faster roads the slightest incline will cause you to become an impedance to traffic flow and cause trouble. They come in a variety of styles from sport bike looking models to retro styles like the classic Vespa. Most are good for at least 330 pounds carrying capacity and can take a passenger. Keep in mind the extra weight will cause a decrease in power and acceleration so plan your route accordingly. 150 cc scoots usually obtain between 70-80 mpg and are priced only slightly higher than 50 cc scoots. You will need a motorcycle endorsement to operate any scooter larger than 50 cc!! 250 cc and up. These scooters are the big Dawgs. They come all the way from 200 cc to 650 cc. If you need to go on the highway or routinely travel roads of 55 mph this is the machine for you. All are 4-stroke and most 250 machines can obtain speeds of at least 70 mph. The 650 class machines like the Suzuki Burgman or Honda Silverwing can attain speeds in excess of 100mph!! These scooters are the most expensive to own and operate. Fuel economy ranges from 50 mpg and up. Insurance will be higher than the smaller bikes. Do to the high price, financing is more likely on bikes of this class and full coverage will be mandated by most finance companies. If you ride long distances, carry a passenger a lot, or your commute requires any highway riding you will need a machine of this size. Where to buy? There are basically two sources for your new scooter. Internet sales and a conventional Brick and Mortar Dealer. ScootDawg highly recommends buying from a reputable dealer in your local area. This will save you a multitude of headaches and give a source for help if something goes amiss. You will pay more for a scooter from a dealer but the added expense is well worth it. Save a month or two longer if you have too and buy local... if not you'll usually wish you had. If you do not have a local dealer then you are stuck with the Internet. Pay attention to this part!! If you buy from the INTERNET YOU are responsible for assembling the scooter, performing the pre-delivery inspection, and sorting out the many quirks it will have for the first few hundred miles. If you are not handy with a wrench, don't have the desire or time to repair things then do not buy on line. Even the best dealers ( and we know of many good on line sellers) can only tell you how to fix a problem and send parts. They can not repair the scooter over the phone. Know your own abilities before you commit to buying a scooter off the Internet. On line scooters can be a great deal but only if you have reasonable expectations and can do the needed repairs yourself. Sorry to sound redundant but all to many people buy the cheaper scooter and then fill the message boards with such and such scooter is a total piece of crap... don't buy a scooter from this company or that company and so on. Buyer beware, Caveat Emptor and all that. If you are in doubt at all make the long drive and buy from a dealer! The scooter will be prepped, running, and you can take it back for repairs if needed. What to buy? As with anything you get what you pay for. I'll try to group the scooters in "tiers" of price and quality so you know where the one that interests you falls. Top Tier: Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Vespa, Italjet, Aprilia, Piaggio ect. These are big dollar high class machines. Very reliable and extremely well made. 2nd Tier: Kymco, Daelim, SYM, Genuine, etc. These are slightly lower priced than the Japanese and Italian machines. They are very reliable and well built as well. Probably the best bang for the buck comes from this class. (I am going to take some real heat for that statement) 3rd Tier: Names like Q-Link, TGB, TNG, Diamo, Adly, Argo, Derbi, E-ton, Schwinn, CPI etc. These scooters sell through dealers only no on line sales. They are good machines and will give you great service. Less $$ than the Tier above to acquire, the fit and finish will not be quite as good but still very good. Well supported and decent warranties. 4th Tier: Bandit Scooters, Baron Scooters, Vento and Strada (especially those manufactured by QJ), Fly-Scooters, Motofino , Hyosung, and Zhongshen Internet and/or dealer only sold bikes with a decent reputation. Expect some problems but nothing serious. The importers have a good record of parts support and honoring their warranty. Last Tier: Names like Tank, Roketa, SunL, Verruci, Big Chief, Viva, Primo, JM-Star, and more. These are the scooters you commonly see on Ebay. They can be great machines, but in general we see more complaints about them than the others. They are however the least expensive and if you are a mechanically oriented person they can be an excellent value. Not the best choice for the total newbie who lacks mechanical skills. If this is the best you can afford (No shame in that) buy one from a local dealer that will prep it and keep it going for you. Usually with this class scooter it will only cost a few hundred more to buy local than online... and you can ride it immediately with no assembly! Another disadvantage to Internet scooters is legality and the paperwork. If you buy from a licensed dealer in your state you will have no trouble from the DMV. If you buy from an on line dealer the DMV can make you jump through hoops to register your new toy! One more thing, most on line dealers do not ship your papers (Bill of Sale and Manufacturers Certificate of Origin) with the scooter and there are stories of folks waiting weeks to get them!! This will be a living post and I will change it as needed. It will be a locked topic because I do not want to get away from it's intended purpose. You can Private Message me (ACD) if there are any additions or corrections that need to be made. We have long established that I am an idiot.....LOL I hope this helps someone! Aaron END OF ARTICLE Lot's of info to wade through and cogitate on I know. Think on that and ask more questions. Happy to help. This link will take you to the most recent review I did and let you have an idea of what a scooter can be like from delivery to return. http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/ind...ead=1178850726 Aaron __________________ Aaron 2008 Fly-Scooters La Vie www.scootdawg.proboards59.com
	0

09-04-2007, 04:51 PM	#5
ridgerunner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fairbury, IL Posts: 63	how about AL Where would American Lifan fit into the mix?
	0

06-30-2007, 02:15 PM	#3
DennisD Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7	Funny you should ask that right at this time. Here is a recent post from someone who got a new scooter over the internet a few weeks ago and now has what sounds like a big problem with things coming loose. http://letsgoscootin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132 On the other hand, I've put almost 3000 km now on my my 150 and have had a problem with the back wheel nut beginning to come loose(twice) until I drove it on with an air impact wrench. Also I've had the air intake hose fall off the air cleaner housing once because of a bad clamp, and had the carb begin working loose out of the intake manifold once. I checked things routinely and frequently at first, and also have found a few body panel screws coming loose now and then, and at the very first, found a number of loose electical connections... that just weren't pushed together tightly enough in the first place. That's been about the extent of it. Pretty normal, I'd say. I don't check things over as thoroughly or frequently now as I did at first, but when I read posts like the one I linked to, it reminds me to go out and check stuff over again. I do make routine checks on suspension components, brake calipers, and the exhaust system, but other than the back axle nut, haven't had problems with any of that stuff coming loose.
	0

07-17-2007, 04:13 PM	#4
freekshow Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 31	had a 04 yamaha zuma very nice machine but the battery would not stay charged if i did it again i would buy chinese for half the money and prep it right zuma would top out at 40mph and i weigh 250
	0