Another Bad Carb?

phager76 · 05-15-2017, 07:19 PM

Really starting to get fed up with these chinese bikes. Yesterday, since the rain finally stopped, I ended up taking a few rides on the Lancer, and it was running pretty nice. All told I put around 30 miles on yesterday. Had a long day at work today, and wanted to take her out for a spin and blow the cobwebs out of my head, and now the damn thing won't idle if I hold the throttle and keep her at 3k she'll run indefinitely. but as soon as I let off the throttle, stopped or in motion, she drops down and stalls out.

I went through and am still going through this crap with my Blaze, and I'm still waiting for some pilot jets to come on the slow boat to see if I can get that one to idle with the new carb. The only thing different is I picked up some gas for my daughter's Coolster, and topped of the scooter as well, but I only put 1/4 of a tank in if that. and the coolster is running fine. I really out to be able to get more then 25-30 miles out of a stock carb. (The Bashan had 25 miles on it when it stopped idling).

I don't mind having to turn some wrenches on my stuff, I don't mind fit and finish issues, but really, between the Tao Tao and the Bashan, I'm over 2k into this with a total of 55 mile of riding time.

Any ideas, I'm going to pull off the plastics an try to get access to the valves, and pick up a new plug. But if this thing needs a freaking carb, I'm probably going to push it off a cliff.

phager76 · 05-15-2017, 10:22 PM

Alright, so I think I found the problem, I pulled off the seat and the front plastic, and started off checking that the grounds were secure, Check. Then I went over the vaccuum and fuel lines, and noticed a bit of dampness on the vaccuum petcock. At first I though it was water, since I have a couple of huge puddles in my gravel drive, and thought it might be some splash from the back tire. but I sniffed it, and sure enough it was gas. The input hose clamp had worked loose, and the hose had wiggled back a bit and was leaking a bit. I re secured it, and and tried to start it still wouldn't hold and idle but after holding it at 2500-3000 for a couple of minutes it smoothed out. I readjusted the idle and took it for a quick spin around the block about a half mile with a few stop signs, and had no problems.

I still have a NGK iridium plug en route as well as some offset feeler gauges and will change the plug and check the valves for good measure. But if any one else come across a similar problem check those lines, it just might be the problem. Rage-fit officially over

jsumd · 05-17-2017, 12:32 AM

Glad to hear you got your problems worked out. I'm also prone to getting fed up with things after a point so I understand. haha

BlackBike · 05-17-2017, 12:58 AM

Phager...How is the Airbox to carb. Sealed up? Mine didn't even connect and I installed a section of pvc to bridge the gap. Really weird on mine. They probably put wrong part on mine. I bought the same mikini that you did and it runs about the same as the original carb. Will only idle on the first clip position won't idle if I raised the clip at all I have not changed the jets . I think mine is supplied with a 100 and 20 jets

phager76 · 05-17-2017, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBike

Phager...How is the Airbox to carb. Sealed up? Mine didn't even connect and I installed a section of pvc to bridge the gap. Really weird on mine. They probably put wrong part on mine. I bought the same mikini that you did and it runs about the same as the original carb. Will only idle on the first clip position won't idle if I raised the clip at all I have not changed the jets . I think mine is supplied with a 100 and 20 jets

On the bashan? It's tight and was a pain to get it on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the airbox to carb connection isn't going to lead to a lean situation. If it was after the fuel is introduced, then yeah, that would definitely lean it out.

I just got a collection of pilot jets, so I'm going to probably throw in a 35 and try that out. I'm also going to put on a pod filter since I'm tired of playing with that damn airbox every time I have to adjust the carb. I'll have to richen up the jets but that'll be a lot easier if I don't have to futz around with it.

BlackBike · 05-17-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phager76

On the bashan? It's tight and was a pain to get it on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the airbox to carb connection isn't going to lead to a lean situation. If it was after the fuel is introduced, then yeah, that would definitely lean it out.

I just got a collection of pilot jets, so I'm going to probably throw in a 35 and try that out. I'm also going to put on a pod filter since I'm tired of playing with that damn airbox every time I have to adjust the carb. I'll have to richen up the jets but that'll be a lot easier if I don't have to futz around with it.

Just wanted to compare how mine was to yours

phager76 · 05-17-2017, 05:54 PM

Well just checked clearances on the valves and put an ngk iridium in the scooter, clearances were with in spec.

Started it up, and it's doing the same damn thing stalling out under 3k checked the vacuum petcock and no leaks. I'm at a loss, any suggestions?

phager76 · 05-17-2017, 06:37 PM

Another piece to the puzzle. I pulled a bunch of the plastics off, since I read of some issues with the vacuum petcock over fuelling. After going over my intake clamps, vacuum lines and verifying that the intake bolts were tight, I took the vacuum line to the petcock off covered it with my thumb and started it up (note being from Chernobyl and having a third hand would make the process much easier) there was no change in idle with it plugged in or not. However if I left the line open and adjusted the idle down to 2000, it would idle fine. This indicates to me that it's running overly rich.

I'm suspecting a faulty enricher so I've unplugged and I'm going to let the scoot cool down and see what happens.

phager76 · 05-17-2017, 08:03 PM

Well, I let it cool down for an hour and a half, and fired her up just now. I rode it down the street and back and no stalling. I'll try to take her out after work tomorrow to see if the issue is still there.

humanbeing · 05-17-2017, 08:27 PM

Enricher ??? https://translate.google.com/transla...082%26page%3D1

phager76 · 05-18-2017, 05:50 PM

Nope, clearly not the enricher. Started it up when I got home from work, let it idle to warm up (Since it doesn't have a choke), seemed to idle steady and on the center stand it would rev and idle down nicely when I applied the rear brake, which is the closest I can come to replicating riding it.

So I geared up hopped off the center stand.... and didn't even make it to the end of the driveway.

So to recap:
Idles fine on the center stand before riding.
After short burst of sustained throttle the idle drops to zero or will recover with a blip of the throttle and holding it at 3K.
If I crank the idle up 3-3.5K it will sometimes recover and wander from 1k-3.5k.

What I've done:
Verified that the valves are within spec.
Replaced factory plug with NGK Iridium.
Checked integrity of vacuum and fuel lines.
Tighted up intake clamps and manifold bolts.
Disconnected Enricher.

So it seems like I'm left with my original suspicion of a bad carb, but I"m open to suggestions as to where to look before replacing the carb. I'm sure these bikes cna be great once you get the bugs worked out, but I'm really kind of wishing I'd just bit the bullet last year and bought a Jap bike. I'm sure I'll feel differently once I get it sorted out. The ultimate capper, for lulz, I looked at powersportsmax and the scooter had a 1 month warranty from date of delivery, Too bad they couldn't get me a MSO to make it road legal until a month after I got it, kind of hard to have a warranty issue come up if it can't be ridden legally!

BlackBike · 05-18-2017, 06:26 PM

On retailer web sites where they have the dropdown boxes to purchase "additional warranty"... it just makes me laugh.

phager76 · 05-18-2017, 07:31 PM

I think I broked it

Never leave a man that's dissatisfied with a purchase, alone with said purchase and tools.

I have a new carb and CDI/Coil for the scooter and an assortment of main jets and a UNI filter for the Blaze in my cart at Amazon to buy when my check comes in tomorrow.

Here's hoping I can get both my POSs running this weekend.

phager76 · 05-20-2017, 12:14 PM

Well, the carb and CDI/Coil came in this morning. I threw the carb on first, and set the idle to WFO (Figure I can always adjust down once started) Got all my lines hooked up, and turned her over and nothing, ran the battery completely flat. I did a quick once over on everything and it looked good, so started kicking it over, and nothing, didn't even seem like it was trying to start.

I'm starting to get a little frustrated at this point, so I sit down, and and drink a little coffee and vape a bit to re-center myself. After I chill a bit, I start going over everything with a fine tooth comb. It turns out that what I though was the fuel line, was the line to the vacuum petcock! Hmm, maybe that's why it's not starting! So I hook everything back up correctly and grab the battery from the Blaze since I was getting a bit tired of kicking it over. Turn the key, and hit the button, and after a few turns she fires back to life... at 4k RPM. Oh yeah, idle is set to WFO. crank the screw down to a more sane level (~1800, since it's cold).

Time to try the CDI, plug that in, and fire her up again, and runs no problem, then move on to the coil, again no problems. Notice, testing on piece at a time, last thing I need is to throw 4 or 5 parts on, and then not know what fixed the problem.

So I put all the plastics back on, and try to put on the luggage rack. Turns out that the M8 bolts are completely stripped out. So, since I need to head to Advance to pick up some vacuum line to remove all the evap emissions crap, I throw the one good bolt to check the threads pitch and gear up for a test ride. At this point, I know I'll either not make it to the end of the driveway, or I'll make it to Advance. Well, let's just say that the evap system is gone and the luggage rack is back on! Once again it's riding well. There is a bit of a bog at WOT so I'll need to bump up the main jet at some point, but it's minimal, so I'm not going to worry about it at this point and let her break in the rest of the way.

As for the Blaze, she's still in a bit of a holding pattern, I've got new main jets due here this afternoon and the UNI filter due Monday, but the pilot jets I ordered were the wrong ones, I think I found the right ones on jets r us so I have a 25, 27.5 and a 30 coming , but I can't be certain when they'll get here, should be before next weekend. I'm going to start with a 110/25 set up, which is 2 steps richer then what came pre-installed in the carb and we'll go from there based on throttle response and performance, as well as plug appearance. At least with the UNI filer removal of the carb should be worlds easier!

05-15-2017, 07:19 PM	#1
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Another Bad Carb? Really starting to get fed up with these chinese bikes. Yesterday, since the rain finally stopped, I ended up taking a few rides on the Lancer, and it was running pretty nice. All told I put around 30 miles on yesterday. Had a long day at work today, and wanted to take her out for a spin and blow the cobwebs out of my head, and now the damn thing won't idle if I hold the throttle and keep her at 3k she'll run indefinitely. but as soon as I let off the throttle, stopped or in motion, she drops down and stalls out. I went through and am still going through this crap with my Blaze, and I'm still waiting for some pilot jets to come on the slow boat to see if I can get that one to idle with the new carb. The only thing different is I picked up some gas for my daughter's Coolster, and topped of the scooter as well, but I only put 1/4 of a tank in if that. and the coolster is running fine. I really out to be able to get more then 25-30 miles out of a stock carb. (The Bashan had 25 miles on it when it stopped idling). I don't mind having to turn some wrenches on my stuff, I don't mind fit and finish issues, but really, between the Tao Tao and the Bashan, I'm over 2k into this with a total of 55 mile of riding time. Any ideas, I'm going to pull off the plastics an try to get access to the valves, and pick up a new plug. But if this thing needs a freaking carb, I'm probably going to push it off a cliff.
	0

05-17-2017, 12:32 AM	#3
jsumd Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 408	Glad to hear you got your problems worked out. I'm also prone to getting fed up with things after a point so I understand. haha __________________ 2002 Harley Davidson XL883R 2012 Yamaha FZ6 2022 Hawk 250 2002 Yamaha R6 sold Vader 125cc sold after owning for many years 1997 Jeep Wrangler sold due to frame rot
	0

05-17-2017, 12:58 AM	#4
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Phager...How is the Airbox to carb. Sealed up? Mine didn't even connect and I installed a section of pvc to bridge the gap. Really weird on mine. They probably put wrong part on mine. I bought the same mikini that you did and it runs about the same as the original carb. Will only idle on the first clip position won't idle if I raised the clip at all I have not changed the jets . I think mine is supplied with a 100 and 20 jets __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

05-17-2017, 08:27 PM	#10
humanbeing Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,436	Enricher ??? https://translate.google.com/transla...082%26page%3D1 __________________
	0

05-18-2017, 06:26 PM	#12
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	On retailer web sites where they have the dropdown boxes to purchase "additional warranty"... it just makes me laugh. __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

05-15-2017, 10:22 PM	#2
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Alright, so I think I found the problem, I pulled off the seat and the front plastic, and started off checking that the grounds were secure, Check. Then I went over the vaccuum and fuel lines, and noticed a bit of dampness on the vaccuum petcock. At first I though it was water, since I have a couple of huge puddles in my gravel drive, and thought it might be some splash from the back tire. but I sniffed it, and sure enough it was gas. The input hose clamp had worked loose, and the hose had wiggled back a bit and was leaking a bit. I re secured it, and and tried to start it still wouldn't hold and idle but after holding it at 2500-3000 for a couple of minutes it smoothed out. I readjusted the idle and took it for a quick spin around the block about a half mile with a few stop signs, and had no problems. I still have a NGK iridium plug en route as well as some offset feeler gauges and will change the plug and check the valves for good measure. But if any one else come across a similar problem check those lines, it just might be the problem. Rage-fit officially over
	2

05-17-2017, 05:54 PM	#7
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Well just checked clearances on the valves and put an ngk iridium in the scooter, clearances were with in spec. Started it up, and it's doing the same damn thing stalling out under 3k checked the vacuum petcock and no leaks. I'm at a loss, any suggestions?
	0

05-17-2017, 06:37 PM	#8
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Another piece to the puzzle. I pulled a bunch of the plastics off, since I read of some issues with the vacuum petcock over fuelling. After going over my intake clamps, vacuum lines and verifying that the intake bolts were tight, I took the vacuum line to the petcock off covered it with my thumb and started it up (note being from Chernobyl and having a third hand would make the process much easier) there was no change in idle with it plugged in or not. However if I left the line open and adjusted the idle down to 2000, it would idle fine. This indicates to me that it's running overly rich. I'm suspecting a faulty enricher so I've unplugged and I'm going to let the scoot cool down and see what happens.
	0

05-17-2017, 08:03 PM	#9
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Well, I let it cool down for an hour and a half, and fired her up just now. I rode it down the street and back and no stalling. I'll try to take her out after work tomorrow to see if the issue is still there.
	0

05-18-2017, 05:50 PM	#11
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Nope, clearly not the enricher. Started it up when I got home from work, let it idle to warm up (Since it doesn't have a choke), seemed to idle steady and on the center stand it would rev and idle down nicely when I applied the rear brake, which is the closest I can come to replicating riding it. So I geared up hopped off the center stand.... and didn't even make it to the end of the driveway. So to recap: Idles fine on the center stand before riding. After short burst of sustained throttle the idle drops to zero or will recover with a blip of the throttle and holding it at 3K. If I crank the idle up 3-3.5K it will sometimes recover and wander from 1k-3.5k. What I've done: Verified that the valves are within spec. Replaced factory plug with NGK Iridium. Checked integrity of vacuum and fuel lines. Tighted up intake clamps and manifold bolts. Disconnected Enricher. So it seems like I'm left with my original suspicion of a bad carb, but I"m open to suggestions as to where to look before replacing the carb. I'm sure these bikes cna be great once you get the bugs worked out, but I'm really kind of wishing I'd just bit the bullet last year and bought a Jap bike. I'm sure I'll feel differently once I get it sorted out. The ultimate capper, for lulz, I looked at powersportsmax and the scooter had a 1 month warranty from date of delivery, Too bad they couldn't get me a MSO to make it road legal until a month after I got it, kind of hard to have a warranty issue come up if it can't be ridden legally!
	0

05-18-2017, 07:31 PM	#13
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	I think I broked it Never leave a man that's dissatisfied with a purchase, alone with said purchase and tools. I have a new carb and CDI/Coil for the scooter and an assortment of main jets and a UNI filter for the Blaze in my cart at Amazon to buy when my check comes in tomorrow. Here's hoping I can get both my POSs running this weekend.
	0

05-20-2017, 12:14 PM	#14
phager76 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Monongahela, PA Posts: 76	Well, the carb and CDI/Coil came in this morning. I threw the carb on first, and set the idle to WFO (Figure I can always adjust down once started) Got all my lines hooked up, and turned her over and nothing, ran the battery completely flat. I did a quick once over on everything and it looked good, so started kicking it over, and nothing, didn't even seem like it was trying to start. I'm starting to get a little frustrated at this point, so I sit down, and and drink a little coffee and vape a bit to re-center myself. After I chill a bit, I start going over everything with a fine tooth comb. It turns out that what I though was the fuel line, was the line to the vacuum petcock! Hmm, maybe that's why it's not starting! So I hook everything back up correctly and grab the battery from the Blaze since I was getting a bit tired of kicking it over. Turn the key, and hit the button, and after a few turns she fires back to life... at 4k RPM. Oh yeah, idle is set to WFO. crank the screw down to a more sane level (~1800, since it's cold). Time to try the CDI, plug that in, and fire her up again, and runs no problem, then move on to the coil, again no problems. Notice, testing on piece at a time, last thing I need is to throw 4 or 5 parts on, and then not know what fixed the problem. So I put all the plastics back on, and try to put on the luggage rack. Turns out that the M8 bolts are completely stripped out. So, since I need to head to Advance to pick up some vacuum line to remove all the evap emissions crap, I throw the one good bolt to check the threads pitch and gear up for a test ride. At this point, I know I'll either not make it to the end of the driveway, or I'll make it to Advance. Well, let's just say that the evap system is gone and the luggage rack is back on! Once again it's riding well. There is a bit of a bog at WOT so I'll need to bump up the main jet at some point, but it's minimal, so I'm not going to worry about it at this point and let her break in the rest of the way. As for the Blaze, she's still in a bit of a holding pattern, I've got new main jets due here this afternoon and the UNI filter due Monday, but the pilot jets I ordered were the wrong ones, I think I found the right ones on jets r us so I have a 25, 27.5 and a 30 coming , but I can't be certain when they'll get here, should be before next weekend. I'm going to start with a 110/25 set up, which is 2 steps richer then what came pre-installed in the carb and we'll go from there based on throttle response and performance, as well as plug appearance. At least with the UNI filer removal of the carb should be worlds easier!
	0