Bashan Brozz Question

DeusExProelium · 02-04-2021, 10:26 PM

Hoping Megadan can comment on this as he seems to be quite knowledgeable on the Brozz (from what I've seen in other posts), but I'm grateful for anybody's response to my question.

Alright, so I'm not new to biking, but I am somewhat new to being the one to perform 100% of the maintenance on my bike. I bought a Bashan Brozz 250 on the high recommendation of a friend of mine, & so far, I don't have many complaints.

So, here's the scenario:
I've just broken in the engine (just over 500 miles), & have been real ginger with the revs / speeds & handling, as well as having maintained it with my OCD character through the break-in phase. As the engine has been breaking in, I've noticed the valves tapping louder & louder (I know it's the valves & not a random rattle b/c I've taken a stethoscope to the engine & found the "ticking" noise that's been driving me nuts coming from inside the valve cover). As per the advice from both Peace Sports & the bike manual, I ran dino 20w50 oil throughout the break-in phase & only just recently changed to synth of the same weight (which has made a very noticeable difference in how well the clutch grabs & how the bike feels in general; a welcome change ~ & I'm running a heavier weight b/c I live in a warmer region). I've only adjusted the valves once during the break-in (the first time I notice the tapping, & they were out by only a small degree)... but out of either paranoia or my OCD nature, I've checked them at least 5 times now.... all because they seem to be making a MUCH louder tapping than I'm used to. Now, in all fairness, it's been YEARS since I've had a bike this small (& a carb'ed "pushrod engine" to boot; forgot how irritating that carb is, lol). I recorded a vid of the engine running after it had warmed up to note how "loud" (I think) the valves are... which, on that note, I should mention that they have a "normal sound" (to me) when the engine is cold, but get noticeably tappier as it warms up.

"Symptoms" & Bike Condition:
It's a little hard to start cold (e.g. below 50°F), but that isn't surprising based on my memory of carb engines; it fires right up in warmer temps.. Both cold & warm, there is no loss of power, no "stuttering", no spitting, no backfires, etc.. None of the typical out-of-spec lash or other engine woes are present. The engine kick-back is louder (& freakier) than I'm used to during cold-startups, but I've just attributed that to the bike. The bike "gutters" at low RPMs when shifting cold... but again, I attribute this to the bike type / drive-train. Being a China-bike, I'm very OCD in checking bolt tightness, spokes, & other things that would be periodic maint. / checks on Jap bikes, but (to my surprise & joy) I rarely find a concern. I'm listing all of these things so you guys have a clear picture of the bike's condition, to help narrow down possibilities ~ if a problem even exists (& isn't just in my head, lol). Despite being a DS class bike (e.g. an ORV, vs. a cruiser, or etc.), I still take extreme care of it. Normally (with my other bikes), even if I do my own wrenching, I'd usually have a shop double-check my work... but I can't do that with a China bike ~ so this has me a bit worried (obviously, lol).

So, my question is (& sry for the long post so far)....
Does the "tappy-happy" rule apply to this bike in that the valves are just noisier than other bikes (or maybe as noisy as I've heard the old Honda bikes were), or could there be something wrong with my valves &/or lash?

Its_not_a_honda · 02-05-2021, 04:56 AM

If you did the valve clearance correctly, a happy engine is a tappy engine. I recomend you wear ear plugs. Without the plugs my apollo sounds like a bucket of loose parts rattling around in a bucket. With the plugs it sounds like a finely tuned precision piece of machinery humming away.

tknj99 · 02-05-2021, 06:15 AM

I agree with that assessment, ive adjusted mine a few times as well and in general the engine is tappy as noted and very pronounced especially when you have the stock exhaust as its so whisper quiet it makes every engine sound stick out.. Full exhaust helps and mated with earbuds within my full helmet my ride is bliss.

DeusExProelium · 02-05-2021, 06:20 AM

LOL (the bucket of parts comment). I thought nearly the same thing as this engine has been breaking in. It's nerve-wracking.

Yeah. Outside of the one minor adjustment (where the exhaust side was out only by .001), I've check them several times, & each time they're in spec; .05mm / or .002 (as I'm used to seeing it). I guess it's just a "tappy-happy" engine. I just have to get used to the extra loud sound (at least, louder than other bikes I've ridden).

It just strikes me odd that they would be quieter on a cold start. I thought the valves tightened up the warmer the engine got, as opposed to louder. I have considered the possibility of the oil being "thicker" when cold, so it quietens them, but I dunno. I guess if anything comes out of this, I'll more than likely be checking them more often (to be sure) for the first few thousand miles, as opposed to every 2nd-3rd oil change as I have in other bikes. As for earplugs, it isn't THAT loud (lol). I can get used to it once my brain accepts the tapping as a "normal sound" for this engine.

DeusExProelium · 02-05-2021, 06:27 AM

Didn't see your (tknj99) comment until after I'd posted my response to "Its not a honda".

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has noted this. Thx for the confirmation(s). On the note of the exhaust... yeah, I not only noticed that first thing, but have had a lot of my old friends (cruiser buddies) comment that their lawnmowers are louder, LOL. Good observation. I didn't think of that... & have considered upgrading the exhaust, but more especially since I'm running a custom (re-routed; for a colder air intake) air pod & a Mikuni carb on it now.

Again. Thx for the input of other Brozz owners who have noticed my "prob". Incidentally, "Tknj99", it sounds like you & I have the exact, same mods... minus the ported head & custom exhaust (OEM on mine). I have a leaner jetting (tho not by much). What alt. &/or temps. you run in?

XLsior · 02-05-2021, 07:11 AM

Trying to correlate the OP information provided it appears to me that the only real change that was made was the oil type, which resulted in a smoother clutch but a louder valve and rocker operational noise.

What also leads me to confirm its the oil type is you suggest its quieter cold and gets louder when at operating temp.

Perhaps trying a different brand/weight/type of oil. Not sure if I'd personally go full synthetic myself. I have a 30year old IDI diesel van so i'll be using the same oil in my bike as its motorcycle compatible. Mostly due to getting it cheaper in bulk and being able to run all my motors on the same engine oil.

tknj99 · 02-05-2021, 07:13 AM

I'm at approx 600 foot elevation and its been around 40 degrees average lately

TxTaoRider · 02-05-2021, 07:41 AM

On most ohv engines, the valve clearances loosen up as the engine warms up... which used to seem odd to me but now I understand that the jug and head expand more than the valves. That's why the first symptom of tight valve lash is hard starting when the engine is cold. Then add in the oil thinning out with heat and it's easy to see why the valve train noise increases as the engine heats up.
Completely unrelated to our motors, but a side note. On engines with forged pistons or that have excess piston clearance, they will make a bunch of noise until they are really warmed up, then they get quiet-er.

DeusExProelium · 02-06-2021, 03:16 AM

The hard cold startup was corrected via a re-jet I did recently on the pilot (bumped it up a few; running 120 MJ & 38 PJ now, with the needle clip in the #2 pos. ~ before I was running 120 MJ & 30 PJ). Now it is surprisingly easy to start (for a carb). As for the oil (in response to XLsior), I was running Valvoline 20w50 through the break-in, & only recently switched to Lucas Synth 20w50. I run Lucas in all of my cars, & have come to love the stuff. It has some amazing ratings (inc. JASO, of course) for bikes. You should check it out. I get where you're coming from regarding using the same wt / brand to save on cost, but my costs aren't too bad. Thx for the suggestion / input tho.

If any admins see this post, I've received enough info to be satisfied. So, this topic can be locked if you want to (I don't know if your forum has necroposting restrictions or not). Either way, I'm good. Thx to all who responded & added their input. I enjoyed reading each response.

(Edit) I'm around the same alt. & temps as you, "tknj99". Atlanta here... so close to the same alt., & slightly warmer temps.. I assume you can run a higher MJ & PJ because you have a modified exhaust. I'll prolly have to do that as well when I get to that point.

02-04-2021, 10:26 PM	#1
DeusExProelium Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Central GA (USA) Posts: 4	Bashan Brozz Question Hoping Megadan can comment on this as he seems to be quite knowledgeable on the Brozz (from what I've seen in other posts), but I'm grateful for anybody's response to my question. Alright, so I'm not new to biking, but I am somewhat new to being the one to perform 100% of the maintenance on my bike. I bought a Bashan Brozz 250 on the high recommendation of a friend of mine, & so far, I don't have many complaints. So, here's the scenario: I've just broken in the engine (just over 500 miles), & have been real ginger with the revs / speeds & handling, as well as having maintained it with my OCD character through the break-in phase. As the engine has been breaking in, I've noticed the valves tapping louder & louder (I know it's the valves & not a random rattle b/c I've taken a stethoscope to the engine & found the "ticking" noise that's been driving me nuts coming from inside the valve cover). As per the advice from both Peace Sports & the bike manual, I ran dino 20w50 oil throughout the break-in phase & only just recently changed to synth of the same weight (which has made a very noticeable difference in how well the clutch grabs & how the bike feels in general; a welcome change ~ & I'm running a heavier weight b/c I live in a warmer region). I've only adjusted the valves once during the break-in (the first time I notice the tapping, & they were out by only a small degree)... but out of either paranoia or my OCD nature, I've checked them at least 5 times now.... all because they seem to be making a MUCH louder tapping than I'm used to. Now, in all fairness, it's been YEARS since I've had a bike this small (& a carb'ed "pushrod engine" to boot; forgot how irritating that carb is, lol). I recorded a vid of the engine running after it had warmed up to note how "loud" (I think) the valves are... which, on that note, I should mention that they have a "normal sound" (to me) when the engine is cold, but get noticeably tappier as it warms up. "Symptoms" & Bike Condition: It's a little hard to start cold (e.g. below 50°F), but that isn't surprising based on my memory of carb engines; it fires right up in warmer temps.. Both cold & warm, there is no loss of power, no "stuttering", no spitting, no backfires, etc.. None of the typical out-of-spec lash or other engine woes are present. The engine kick-back is louder (& freakier) than I'm used to during cold-startups, but I've just attributed that to the bike. The bike "gutters" at low RPMs when shifting cold... but again, I attribute this to the bike type / drive-train. Being a China-bike, I'm very OCD in checking bolt tightness, spokes, & other things that would be periodic maint. / checks on Jap bikes, but (to my surprise & joy) I rarely find a concern. I'm listing all of these things so you guys have a clear picture of the bike's condition, to help narrow down possibilities ~ if a problem even exists (& isn't just in my head, lol). Despite being a DS class bike (e.g. an ORV, vs. a cruiser, or etc.), I still take extreme care of it. Normally (with my other bikes), even if I do my own wrenching, I'd usually have a shop double-check my work... but I can't do that with a China bike ~ so this has me a bit worried (obviously, lol). So, my question is (& sry for the long post so far).... Does the "tappy-happy" rule apply to this bike in that the valves are just noisier than other bikes (or maybe as noisy as I've heard the old Honda bikes were), or could there be something wrong with my valves &/or lash?
	0

02-05-2021, 06:15 AM	#3
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,254	I agree with that assessment, ive adjusted mine a few times as well and in general the engine is tappy as noted and very pronounced especially when you have the stock exhaust as its so whisper quiet it makes every engine sound stick out.. Full exhaust helps and mated with earbuds within my full helmet my ride is bliss. __________________ 2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2017 Honda Fury Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X
	0

02-05-2021, 07:13 AM	#7
tknj99 Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Central VA Posts: 1,254	I'm at approx 600 foot elevation and its been around 40 degrees average lately __________________ 2024 Zuma Storm 150 DLX 2019 Beta 430 RRS 2017 Honda Fury Former China Bikes: Tao DBX1, Brozz 250, CSC RX4, Titan DLX, Templar X
	1

02-05-2021, 07:41 AM	#8
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	On most ohv engines, the valve clearances loosen up as the engine warms up... which used to seem odd to me but now I understand that the jug and head expand more than the valves. That's why the first symptom of tight valve lash is hard starting when the engine is cold. Then add in the oil thinning out with heat and it's easy to see why the valve train noise increases as the engine heats up. Completely unrelated to our motors, but a side note. On engines with forged pistons or that have excess piston clearance, they will make a bunch of noise until they are really warmed up, then they get quiet-er. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	0

02-05-2021, 04:56 AM	#2
Its_not_a_honda Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 410	If you did the valve clearance correctly, a happy engine is a tappy engine. I recomend you wear ear plugs. Without the plugs my apollo sounds like a bucket of loose parts rattling around in a bucket. With the plugs it sounds like a finely tuned precision piece of machinery humming away. __________________ 2020 Kawasaki KLX300R, 2018 Yamaha TW200 If you want more of something, tax it less. If you want less of something, tax it more.
	1

02-05-2021, 06:20 AM	#4
DeusExProelium Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Central GA (USA) Posts: 4	LOL (the bucket of parts comment). I thought nearly the same thing as this engine has been breaking in. It's nerve-wracking. Yeah. Outside of the one minor adjustment (where the exhaust side was out only by .001), I've check them several times, & each time they're in spec; .05mm / or .002 (as I'm used to seeing it). I guess it's just a "tappy-happy" engine. I just have to get used to the extra loud sound (at least, louder than other bikes I've ridden). It just strikes me odd that they would be quieter on a cold start. I thought the valves tightened up the warmer the engine got, as opposed to louder. I have considered the possibility of the oil being "thicker" when cold, so it quietens them, but I dunno. I guess if anything comes out of this, I'll more than likely be checking them more often (to be sure) for the first few thousand miles, as opposed to every 2nd-3rd oil change as I have in other bikes. As for earplugs, it isn't THAT loud (lol). I can get used to it once my brain accepts the tapping as a "normal sound" for this engine.
	0

02-05-2021, 06:27 AM	#5
DeusExProelium Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Central GA (USA) Posts: 4	Didn't see your (tknj99) comment until after I'd posted my response to "Its not a honda". I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has noted this. Thx for the confirmation(s). On the note of the exhaust... yeah, I not only noticed that first thing, but have had a lot of my old friends (cruiser buddies) comment that their lawnmowers are louder, LOL. Good observation. I didn't think of that... & have considered upgrading the exhaust, but more especially since I'm running a custom (re-routed; for a colder air intake) air pod & a Mikuni carb on it now. Again. Thx for the input of other Brozz owners who have noticed my "prob". Incidentally, "Tknj99", it sounds like you & I have the exact, same mods... minus the ported head & custom exhaust (OEM on mine). I have a leaner jetting (tho not by much). What alt. &/or temps. you run in?
	0

02-05-2021, 07:11 AM	#6
XLsior Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 1,281	Trying to correlate the OP information provided it appears to me that the only real change that was made was the oil type, which resulted in a smoother clutch but a louder valve and rocker operational noise. What also leads me to confirm its the oil type is you suggest its quieter cold and gets louder when at operating temp. Perhaps trying a different brand/weight/type of oil. Not sure if I'd personally go full synthetic myself. I have a 30year old IDI diesel van so i'll be using the same oil in my bike as its motorcycle compatible. Mostly due to getting it cheaper in bulk and being able to run all my motors on the same engine oil.
	1

02-06-2021, 03:16 AM	#9
DeusExProelium Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Central GA (USA) Posts: 4	The hard cold startup was corrected via a re-jet I did recently on the pilot (bumped it up a few; running 120 MJ & 38 PJ now, with the needle clip in the #2 pos. ~ before I was running 120 MJ & 30 PJ). Now it is surprisingly easy to start (for a carb). As for the oil (in response to XLsior), I was running Valvoline 20w50 through the break-in, & only recently switched to Lucas Synth 20w50. I run Lucas in all of my cars, & have come to love the stuff. It has some amazing ratings (inc. JASO, of course) for bikes. You should check it out. I get where you're coming from regarding using the same wt / brand to save on cost, but my costs aren't too bad. Thx for the suggestion / input tho. If any admins see this post, I've received enough info to be satisfied. So, this topic can be locked if you want to (I don't know if your forum has necroposting restrictions or not). Either way, I'm good. Thx to all who responded & added their input. I enjoyed reading each response. (Edit) I'm around the same alt. & temps as you, "tknj99". Atlanta here... so close to the same alt., & slightly warmer temps.. I assume you can run a higher MJ & PJ because you have a modified exhaust. I'll prolly have to do that as well when I get to that point.
	0